Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Discussion of each of the 18 parts of Twin Peaks the Return

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baxter
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby baxter » Mon Aug 14, 2017 4:25 am

claaa7- I am also wondering about that footage of the girl. Very mysterious.

The ludicrously high expectations I had for this episode were basically met 100%. Amazing! I'd love for the remaining parts to all keep firing at this level, but who knows.

The most impressive thing about this series for me is the fact that I still can't tell what is going to happen next week.
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby Isis Unveiled » Mon Aug 14, 2017 4:31 am

It was certainly relieving, cathartic even, to be able to finally confirm the underlying significance of the Blue Rose mythos. Many of us had suspected (correctly we can now say) that because a Blue Rose does not occur in nature that it represents the supernatural...

I feel as though this revelation (or clarification on behalf of Lynch/Cole) will inevitably be one of if not the most significant key to understand the how and why of the world of Twin Peaks.

Mark Frost clearly wanted his conception of the world of Twin Peaks to be one that is driven by a myriad of obscure supernatural forces. Project Blue Book, Dugpas, the subtly implied and even sometimes obvious use of magickal means to push the threshold of boundaries to an unprecedented level in American Television

OCCULT OCCULT OCCULT

And speaking of the threshold.... in regards to the White lodge, before it happened, I had a very short precognitive epiphany - seconds before Andy was teleported into the White Lodge (which oddly resembled the Giant's tower in 'Gotta Light?'). It made perfect sense, taking into consideration the folk lore that Hawk had explained about the dweller on the threshold. The giant called himself the fireman, which, in itself was a uniquely layered clue that ties in some of the fire mythos that has been all pervasive throughout the series.

To put it simply, Andy was, and may possibly be, the only character in the return who contained no evil, and more specifically, he is devoid of any kind of curiosity or inquisitiveness that would render a person susceptible to nefarious subversion (the kind that got Coop sucked into the black lodge). If I had to make the often cliche Tarot analogy, Andy is The FOOL (0). Blissfully ignorant and unaffected by corruption and temptation. The Giant (fireman) tested his integrity by lobbing small bursts of flames toward Andy which seemed to abruptly dissipate into smoke before they could harm Andy. I see this as a test being carried out by the Giant, which proved that Andy is (at least presently) invulnerable to the dark arts that are the central driving force in the world of Twin Peaks, most of which we know to originate from the Black Lodge.

Andy was then chosen to be a conduit or medium to the other characters, Hawk & Bobby, that were in the woods and witnessed the portal open to the White Lodge.

And finally I would like to add, about Andy's brief visit to the White Lodge, we saw again the choppy, time lapsed footage from Episode 8 of the spirits gathering at the convenience store (presumably to engage in the dark arts, most likely invocations) and sure enough I saw it again, the gray figure that is OBVIOUSLY ejecting ectoplasm into the ether. We all saw BOB flowing through the ectoplasm, I believe this suggests that BOB is much older than the Native American spirits who are inhabiting the land of Twin Peaks. It's quite possible that BOB is merely an amalgamation, an abstraction, or a somewhat diluted form of a MUCH greater evil that has existed since the dawn of man (and possibly even longer than that).

Meh, I've typed a short thesis here. I'll end on this note - it's a snippet from poem I've written long ago that seems oddly fitting to summarize the overall message of this particular episode, as well as the bulk of season 3.

Here are the relevant snippets:

Truth is a course, the Universe is the source
omnipresent like the force - impervious to divorce
cosmically endorsed and universally enforced
that all pervasive warmth begets celestial intercourse

wake up fool before you nod out and wreck
reality is a wall and YOU - are the architect
my deck is high tech, I'm a magician and a prophet
I move spheres with my mind - with the universe in my pocket
you cannot stop it - like Jack Parsons’ rocket
you open the door - step through - close it - then lock it
Calculate your fate when I deal you this next hand
the cards they command, divide - add - multiply - understand

..... (same poem, different page)

out of the ordinary' extraordinary telekinetics
interstellar constellations and quantum mechanics
the interdimentional begets the esoteric dawn
a theoretic prophetic phonetic conjure of Babalon
to break the facade and reveal what lies beneath
may be a difficult task to any ordinary thief
ordinary in that sentence is the word that holds key
your eyes may be open - yet you still cannot see
Allow me, to help thee, realign thou’s chi
begin by exhaling complerely, then breath breath breath!

you will find your center when I’m done with this tale…
if you read between the lines you may find the holy grail
though not holy in the sense - of the words in this rhyme
words are merely words, they are nothing divine
words are ideas, they’re only constructs of mind
though it’s critical to note they’re NOT independent of time,
the buddha once said time cannot be measured by man
time is merely an illusion, a footprint in the sand…

The sands of time are but merely a myth
If time is the fourth dimension, then what is the fifth?
The pentacle may just be as close as we get
to gaze upon a god, before our moment of death


The unnamed entity I invoked that was channeled through my hand takes credit for the poem.

COPYRIGHTS will be enforced if unauthorized reproductions of the poem are peddled,
Though personally I would say the beurocracy is merely a formality, the entity that shall not be named here is not bound by man's laws and would likely retaliate through unconventional means, not of this world
"I have the fury of my own momentum." - BOB
Rik Renault
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby Rik Renault » Mon Aug 14, 2017 4:36 am

Someone on Reddit mentioned that some of the shots in the first scene with Gordon, Albert and Tammy are played in reverse – noticeable by the backwards blinking. I'm rewatching tonight and will look out for this, but did anyone spot this?
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Panapaok
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby Panapaok » Mon Aug 14, 2017 4:44 am

Brilliant episode, one of the very best so far. Very satisfying to finally see all the storylines converging.

The Jack Rabbit's Palace sequence is probably my favorite of the entire series. Beautifully shot with wonderful atmosphere. Really surprising to see Naido there.

Andy meeting the Fireman was also amazing. Makes total sense that he, of all people, went there. The most pure and innocent one. Seeing him and Lucy was also surprising.

Gordon's dream was great! Philip Jeffries! Incredible stuff and terrific sound design.

After the Diane/Janey-E revelation, I guess the FBI goes to Vegas next week and hopefully Coop wakes up.

The Sarah Palmer scene was riveting and terrifying. Very intrigued to see what's up with her.

Super weird stuff with James' buddy with the green glove. I guess James will find out where the humming sound at the Great Northern comes from.
This is - excuse me - a damn fine cup of coffee.
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby Soolsma » Mon Aug 14, 2017 4:46 am

Seems to me there is indeed some classic Twin Peaks possession a-la Leland going on with Sarah. Remember how Laura's face showed nothing but light when opened, possibly because she never gave BOB a chance to enter her. Sarah's however, showed a corrupted spiritual mound and of course that evil smile and voice.

Not too sure it is experiment in there though.
Last edited by Soolsma on Mon Aug 14, 2017 4:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby mtwentz » Mon Aug 14, 2017 4:48 am

Panapaok wrote:Brilliant episode, one of the very best so far. Very satisfying to finally see all the storylines converging.

The Jack Rabbit's Palace sequence is probably my favorite of the entire series. Beautifully shot with wonderful atmosphere. Really surprising to see Naido there.

Andy meeting the Fireman was also amazing. Makes total sense that he, of all people, went there. The most pure and innocent one. Seeing him and Lucy was also surprising.

Gordon's dream was great! Philip Jeffries! Incredible stuff and terrific sound design.

After the Diane/Janey-E revelation, I guess the FBI goes to Vegas next week and hopefully Coop wakes up.

The Sarah Palmer scene was riveting and terrifying. Very intrigued to see what's up with her.

Super weird stuff with James' buddy with the green glove. I guess James will find out where the humming sound at the Great Northern comes from.


I was really surprised Freddy Sykes is being set up for such a major role. I honestly thought he would be the most minor of characters but now it looks like he may play a key role in defeating the 'evil in the woods'.
"Dougie is COOPER? How the Hell is this!?"
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roadkill
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby roadkill » Mon Aug 14, 2017 4:51 am

claaa7 wrote:i'm fascinated by the repeated use of the girl running across the school yard screaming excised from the original Pilot.. it was pretty much the first image we saw of the entire new series and now it returns once again in Andy's lodge visions. i wonder what's the significance here?

By the way: has this actress ever been identified / credited, I wonder?
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby Metamorphia » Mon Aug 14, 2017 4:54 am

Whole Jack Rabbits sequence was just incredible.
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby sycamore » Mon Aug 14, 2017 4:57 am

roadkill wrote:
claaa7 wrote:i'm fascinated by the repeated use of the girl running across the school yard screaming excised from the original Pilot.. it was pretty much the first image we saw of the entire new series and now it returns once again in Andy's lodge visions. i wonder what's the significance here?

By the way: has this actress ever been identified / credited, I wonder?


I've just been researching this very question and am coming up empty handed. IMDb and google searches offer nothing, but I would also love to know this answer.
Rhodes
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby Rhodes » Mon Aug 14, 2017 5:08 am

Isn't it strange that Diane has-a-brother-in-law that looks exactly like Dale? Or has she never met him? Or does she only know another Dougie or with a different appearance?
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby Ragnell » Mon Aug 14, 2017 5:17 am

Oh, haven't caught up on thread but I just have to gush. This is the first strong even-numbered ep since 8. We FINALLY got to Jack Rabbit's Palace!

Did anyone else think of the towering island in the purple sea when they showed Jack Rabbit's Palace? The one with the white fortress that housed the Fireman on top?

WE CAN OFFICIALLY CALL HIM THE FIREMAN NOW!! And it makes perfect sense Andy went up there, Andy's still pure of heart but now he's been seasoned enough to be able to face the darkness. In the original series he couldn't seem to handle it at first, and Harry and Coop helped him with that. But he was still very kind, very brave, and had surprising insights such as figuring out the map. Not to mention being the artist of the team. Now he's able to investigate the deaths of young people without breaking down, but he's not jaded, he's still Andy and that's why he got taken up. He now has some clues he can interpret or offer, importantly the existence of the Experiment (and it birthing BOB, who Andy can recognize because he was the sketch artist!) and the physical differences between the two Coopers.

NAIDO! it was so sad to see her fall to oblivion, so I'm thrilled to see her survive and end up in Twin Peaks, with more to her story. Cooper seemed traumatized to lose her, so I hope he gets to see her again.

Diane and Janey-E being related is perfect. I've never liked the idea the family itself is manufactured, but it makes sense for Doppelcoop to, if he made a secondary Doppelganger, set him up with Diane's half-sister. I can't wait to see the FBI crew meet the Vegas crew now. Which I'm sure will happen when the Las Vegas FBI finds out that one of the Douglas Joneses has been dodging murder attempts. (I'd have yelled at that guy, too. It's only 23 people to dig through! Get some names, addresses, phone numbers and facebook pages and send 'em to Cole you lazy butt.)

I assume Diane has never met her brother-in-law. If she's estranged from her half-sister she probably skipped the wedding, but knows the name from the invitation or from family gossip. I think either this side of it is new info to Diane and she's starting to wonder what else her contact left out, or she's possessed and doesn't realize what she's been texting while under the influence.

Monica Belluci is Cole's dream girl and spirit mentor. I love that.

James has a superpowered friend, and together they guard the Great Northern. All the King Arthur references have had me thinking of Ben Horne as one of those landholding lords who was bad before Arthur came in and then turned into a good, decent man after pledging fealty. Because the Great Northern is like a mystical fortress. And now we learn Ben has his own knights, too, and one of them is James.

Also in the King Arthur mindset, the 4 cops going out from Jack Rabbit's Palace seemed like a group of knights on a quest. And sure enough, they find a lady from a magic realm and one of them passes the pure of heart test to meet an otherworldly lord.

Chad gets taken down finally. I bet it was the letter.

The background on Blue Rose was clearly relevant, describing a case with doppelgangers. But the woman committing suicide makes me worry that shooting her doppelganger was NOT the right way to handle things, and for the first time I'm actually worried about what'll happen to Dale when he catches up with Doppelcoop.

We did see David Bowie, which made me happy even in flashback.

All that AND a Roadhouse scene that actually adds to one of the ongoing plots. Billy and Tina are out there. But there was something odd about that girl taking to Tina's daughter, and something odd about the whole scene. I kept thinking of Audrey saying she was someone else. And that woman looked like Audrey, and was sharply questioning the other woman about all this.
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby Soolsma » Mon Aug 14, 2017 5:29 am

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Ragnell
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby Ragnell » Mon Aug 14, 2017 5:32 am

Hester Prynne wrote:
thedarktrees wrote:Any ideas as to why Frank would tell Cole about the missing pages and their reference to Cooper, but NOT the info about Jack Rabbit's Palace, given its major connections to Cooper and Briggs?


At first that's what I thought he was going to say - seemed weird to me too that he only mentioned the diary. Maybe he didn't want to get the Feds involved until after they had gone there, but why call Cole at all? Maybe he just wanted to gauge Cole's knowledge about the two Coops.


I think Frank didn't want to sound crazy and didn't expect to be believed. He's never met Cole or Cooper so he probably doesn't realize how open-minded this part of the FBI is. In fact, he seemed a little puzzled that Cole accepted that much so easily.
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby Troubbble » Mon Aug 14, 2017 5:37 am

After the Janey-E revelation, I can only assume Diane has been helping the Doppelganger since he first left Twin Peaks.

For me, the clear implication is that she was instrumental in foisting Dougie Jones, the manufactured human, onto her unsuspecting sister.

(Janey could also end up being a willing conspirator with Diane and the Doppelganger, but that doesn't feel right to me.)
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby SamGGD » Mon Aug 14, 2017 5:44 am

Significance of Bowie's line to Cooper? It's definitely Coop in that FWWM scene. Was Jeffries jumping through time?

Green glove superboy story pretty random, even for TP. But I enjoyed it for the sheer bizarrity. Hard to see where they're going with that. Well in a way it's not, but it feels so over the top lol. Will he crush Sarah and Mr C's skulls? (foreshadowed with crushing the nuts lol)

The general screwing of expectations is hilarious at times in a good way. Cut to roadhouse with the 2 girls chatting in a booth, obviously expecting another random unconnected scene, and we get plot progression haha nice minor surprise there

Amazing episode. Sarah Palmer stuff still has me speechless
Last edited by SamGGD on Mon Aug 14, 2017 5:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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