Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

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BigEd
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Post by BigEd »

lotjx2 wrote:So, the thing that escape NY is in Laura's mom.
Why do people keep saying this? I haven't seen any evidence that the experiment has somehow entered into Sarah (other than the fact that they both have attacked people).
lotjx2 wrote:I am not sure if Cole sending the rather stupid Vegas branch to go after Dougie and Jane-E is a good idea. That seems to be a plan destined to fail. Who cares, it has to lead somewhere now.
Some have questioned why Cole didn't tell the LV office any more than Mr. and Mrs. Douglass Jones. I think your point explains this. Cole doesn't want the clowns in Vegas mucking this up. Just gather info and forward to Cole. Out of 23 Douglas Jones', maybe half will be married. LV can gather their names/addresses/occupations and provide wives' names quickly without interference. Then Cole can kick off the real investigation.
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Mistertom
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Post by Mistertom »

I'm sure it's been brought up but that leaked page of dialogue from David lynch the art life makes sense now .
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garethw
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Post by garethw »

rocketsan22 wrote:
firefly2193 wrote:Loved the episode, aesthetically brilliant throughout. The roadhouse scene with that music had me somehow incredibly tense.

I hope the final four parts are as good as this one.

I also hope that the wherever the story goes, and I have literally no idea (which is ridiculous/great at this point) doesn't do any sort of dis-service to the Laura Palmer story at the heart of Twin Peaks original. I don't think Lynch would do that. But occasionally TPTR feels a bit like a fanfic tacked onto Twin Peaks without a real thematic build on the story that came before it. I hope this doesn't remain the case, but at the very least I hope the purity of the Laura Palmer tragedy remains in tact (unless meaningfully enhanced and developed upon).
This^^^^^^^^^ 1,000x over...
Add one more voice to that chorus. I am really enjoying the new show as a stand-alone piece, and its links to the original, but Laura's story is a heartbreaking tragedy, and the most fully fleshed-out work in a portfolio of work full of references to child abuse. It seems unconscionable to me to trivialize that story, and I'd not have expected Lynch to do that. On the other hand, Freddie the jolly green-gloved Lynchian take on a comic book hero seems to be inexplicably and perilously headed in that direction.

On the other hand, I also wonder whether I'm right that that story was really as important to Lynch as I always assume -- he never intended, after all, to reveal it. So what does that mean?
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Saturn's child
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Post by Saturn's child »

Hester Prynne wrote:Haven't been able to keep up with the thread today, but have been thinking a lot about the dream theme from this episode and the season as a whole, especially all of the weird conversations we've seen in the Roadhouse. Aren't these like weird conversations we would overhear in a dream - things that don't make sense and appear out of nowhere like the penguin and zebra conversation? "I had the weirdest dream last night - there were two girls talking about a penguin and zebra. One of the girls had a weird rash under her arm, and she kept drinking from an empty beer can."

Then sometimes there will be a certain dream thread that mutates into a different scene or story in our minds - the endless Billy references remind me of this a lot. - The numerous Billys in the show, the guy running into the RR and asking if anyone's seen Billy, Audrey's story, the girls at the bar - it's like a contagious idea or image from a dream that keeps repeating and taking different forms in the show. There have been a few things that have seemed crazy and off the wall even for Twin Peaks - the sick zombie girl in the car who is being taken to see her uncle - then the mention of an uncle in the bar scene with the two girls. Freddie's bizarre green hand is like something out of a comic book and the fact his name is that of another tv character - is Monica Bellucci right? Is someone dreaming all of this? Did the Woodsmen put everyone to sleep so that they could live out their lives in nightmares or sleepwalk through their acts of evil? Is this one person's dream? Have the gateways allowed characters' dreams to invade and carry out their stories in reality?
Excellent points. It's beginning to feel a little more like INLAND EMPIRE in that regard, with information bleeding between realities. The associative editing choices also help this along, imo. Now that we've arrived at 10/1, I wonder if this develops further...

-------

Loosely related: how are mother themes bleeding between realities? Is the Experiment 'Mother', & is she the archetype influencing the below?
* Sarah, perhaps the most important mother of the series overall, appears to be possessed by something dark.
* American Girl: "My mother is coming!"
* Drugged out mother: "1-1-9!"
* The Experiment as 'mother' of BOB (linked with the 'mother of all bo[m]bs').
* Hit & run mother: how much guilt/responsibility is she putting on herself for the death of her child? (echoes Sarah's guilt). Will she make a re-appearance?
* Janey-E's child is at least half-constructed already if he carries the genes of Dougie Jones.
* Audrey, potentially/probably Richard Horne's mother. Where is she?

All of the above mothers are (arguably) shown to be interconnected with unexplained occurrences, even if it's only implicit in a couple of cases. How connected are they? I'm sure I've forgotten or haven't recognised more (Atom Heart) 'Mother' echoes, but just to get the ball rolling (if anyone's up for a kick, that is).

On the other side of the fence, there seems to a be a few missing/deceased fathers, as highlighted in part 12 (...ummm, I think it was that part):
* Ben reminiscing about his father.
* Richard didn't have a father.
* Warden Murphy killed & discovered immediately after by his son.
* Sonny Jim lost his original 'father'; even when he had him, he was still the son of a construct. Now he's got an 'unconstructed' father figure in Coop, but, well, we can all see he's at least somewhat absent from a fathering role.
* Leland's dead, but even in the afterlife/lodge his daughter is missing.
* Briggs is dead, his body also went missing for a quarter of a century.
* On a meta level, Warren Frost died shortly after filming.

& as an aside: I'll guess James is about to find a rebirthed Laura.
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trismegistus
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Post by trismegistus »

I've not been able to read every page because of how much this episode has been sizzling, but I wanted to mention how, after Andy exists the portal, that Frank, Hawk, and Bobby arrive at their standing places around Jack Rabbit's Palace while cross fading from several different takes that have them arriving from several different directions. It makes me believe that more could be said about converging timelines or dimensions.
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Re: RE: Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Post by dropkick23 »

Rik Renault wrote:Upon rewatch I think the fact that the FBI bring up the ring with Diane is really odd. Did they do this because they figured out it's the only thing they hadn't asked her about and they were willing to indulge her likely deception? Or are they 2 steps ahead somehow? With all the machinery in the room it felt as though they were performing some kind of test on her? I felt that it was implied that Gordon was listening in on Tammy and Albert's conversation too, where he seemed to be testing her.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

I've had the idea that Albert, Gordon and Diane know they are being watched from the 4th wall perspecitve (like someone from the black or white lodge can see the twin peaks broadcast we see) and they are being intentionally misleading. With tammy being strung along so they have an excuse to explain more misleading things. The idea is wrong of course, but what the hell.
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Pyaan123
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Post by Pyaan123 »

So the Room James walks in, is that the same room where in the original ending of the original pilot bob was found with a circle of candles citing his chant about his deathbag?

I really think that place in the great northern has some significance as the humming seems to come from that room.
It sounds like this: tsk tsk ks
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Post by Snailhead »

Pyaan123 wrote:So the Room James walks in, is that the same room where in the original ending of the original pilot bob was found with a circle of candles citing his chant about his deathbag?

I really think that place in the great northern has some significance as the humming seems to come from that room.
I thought that in the European Pilot it was the basement of the Sheriff's station? I'll have to revisit it to verify.
pvilmur
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Post by pvilmur »

About the uncles -- I thought I'd bring together the various references into a single post --


• Leland was Maddy's uncle

• When Chet asks San about Lil's coded message, the uncle was missing from the equation (Lil was "his mother's sister's girl").

• The honking lady said that her daughter(?) needed to get home to see her uncle.

• Tina's daughter can't remember (twice) if her uncle was home when Billy barged into her kitchen.


The three latter references to 'uncle' make me think there is definitely something to this.
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Normonaut
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Post by Normonaut »

Dreamy Audrey wrote:A few unrelated observations:

1) I thought it was creepy that Lucy said the same thing to Andy that Diane said to Cooper's Doppelganger, even though Andy and Lucy's memory seemed to be a happy one:

Diane: "Do you remember that night?"
Lucy: "Do you remember that night, Andy?"

There are a lot of lines about remembering or not remembering things in the new series, btw.

2) The guy in the Roadhouse who sits behind Megan is wearing a sweater with a weird pattern that reminds me of one of Lucy's sweaters in the original series. Is he just wearing a retro sweater or is this scene taking place in the early 90's or a mind that is still in the 90's? I could be wrong, but I don't think too many people would wear sweaters like that nowadays? Funny thing is that Megan and Sophie are even talking about a sweater in that scene ("Nice sweater, where did you lift that?" - "It's Paula's." - "It's nice.")
Image
Wait...
Isn't that John Justice Wheeler's jacket?
I'm assuming it's not, since nobody has mentioned it, but I could have sworn I've seen that exact pattern before in TP.
Agent Cooper. Listen to the sounds.
It is in our house now. It all can not be said aloud now.
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guildnavigator
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Post by guildnavigator »

Snailhead wrote:
Pyaan123 wrote:So the Room James walks in, is that the same room where in the original ending of the original pilot bob was found with a circle of candles citing his chant about his deathbag?

I really think that place in the great northern has some significance as the humming seems to come from that room.
I thought that in the European Pilot it was the basement of the Sheriff's station? I'll have to revisit it to verify.

They were in the boiler room of Calhoun Memorial Hospital in the European closed ending.
Esselgee
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Post by Esselgee »

Am I the only getting tired of the Tammy/Gordon/Albert/Diane sitting in a room talking scenes? I hope we've seen the last of those scenes. They need to get out there and do something. Also getting tired of Gordon fiddling with his hearing aid and turning it up at the worst moment. Sorry, I had to vent...
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Post by dronerstone »

I'm still really happy about how the Monica Bellucci dream sequence was used. :)

I had the horrid thought/expectation it could very well be one of the last scenes of part 18 when I read it and didn't know where to place it or how to put it into context.

Therefore I kept thinking "what if that's how they wrap it up?" Clean cut to Paris, and ALL of Twin Peaks was just a random dream that a French woman (Bellucci) had.

"Starring Kyle MacLachlan."

End.
Esselgee
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Post by Esselgee »

dronerstone wrote:Therefore I kept thinking "what if that's how they wrap it up?" Clean cut to Paris, and ALL of Twin Peaks was just a random dream that a French woman (Bellucci) had.
Belluci is Italian.
claaa7
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Post by claaa7 »

i think now that Jeffries voice has been redubbed by another actor i think we can be safe in saying that David Bowie will not make a suprise apperance aside from old/manipulated footage.. Harry Goaz said in an interview back in May that Bowie was supposed to do it but it never came to fruition before his passing, unfortunately.

one thing that has me wondering - why is it The Fireman's name was hidden from us until now? was there anything in this episode relating to the specific name The Fireman that would've been spoiled if revealed beforehand? i can't think of anything but i'm sure it's something relevant.
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