Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Discussion of each of the 18 parts of Twin Peaks the Return

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Troubbble
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Re: RE: Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby Troubbble » Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:50 am

zeronumber wrote:
Troubbble wrote:
zeronumber wrote:I purport that Audrey is Tina.

Perhaps she is suffering a schizophrenic split in which Tina is her other self. Who has a life, a daughter and apparently issues with which Audrey hates.

Charlie is some sort of facilitator... And to be clear and eliminate any ambiguity...

The phone call he place to "Tina", may have all been a charade! (There was no Tina on the phone!) He already knew all the somewhat shocking details and was only pressing Audrey by not telling her the things which she may already know as "Tina" but has not been able to dissociate as Audrey. (And maybe vice versa)


Was loving this idea at first, but now I'm stuck... Can't reconcile the fact that the daughter identifies her mother as Tina.

Still an interesting thought otherwise, though.

The girl knows her as Tina...and may or may not know about Audrey. (If she does...maybe she needs to play along. She is obviously a player, herself...with secrets?)


Seemed too spaced-out to be playing along about anything, and we can probably rely on the fact that she knows her own mother's true name. Who knows, though... I could see them making this work somehow.
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Pinky
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby Pinky » Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:03 am

Troubbble wrote:
Pinky wrote:I hope for Naido's sake that they buy Sarah's story, otherwise she's taking a trip to the holding cells and that will make for an interesting night...


Sarah wasn't in Twin Peaks when she encountered that trucker, was she?

Regardless though, I think the stage *is* set for some strange goings-on to come in those holding cells.


Oh, of course, I didn't think about that, you're right.
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby firefly2193 » Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:08 am

LateReg wrote:
firefly2193 wrote:I personally just think its either occasionally poorly written or has been unnaturally extended to make 18 parts. There's the potential that Frost and Lynch legitimately thought TPTR would be viewed by people who had never seen Twin Peaks before - which, after the first two parts, is definitely not the case - and therefore stuck in lots of unnecessary exposition. But then they simultaneously wrote a show that would make literally zero sense to any new viewer. Similarly, a lot of the over exposition is about things we the audience have already seen - in particular the FBI slowly debriefing the events that have gone before. This perhaps suggests to me that these scenes have been added to extend a script that was originally written with 9 parts in mind.

Obviously that is pure speculation, and I can't wait for the new information to come out from producers, crew, perhaps even Frost, after this is all wrapped up. I would *love* to see the original script. Unless the ending changes everything, I would also love to see a 12 or 14 hour edit of this whole thing. TPTR is actually primed for some very interesting re-edits - how would the whole thing feel if it was divided up differently? Say, each different storyline edited as one continuous long piece? Or re-cut in chronological order? As with most fan edits, I'd expect these not to work as well as the original, but I'd suspect a 12-14hour edit could be brilliant.


I agree about the potential for interesting re-edits. But I am strongly against the whole idea that some scenes exist just to pad it. Lynch wanted the freedom for it to be as long or short as he wanted it. The exposition scenes in particular aren't necessary for padding; this film didn't need to be any specific length. Trimming all the exposition scenes barely shortens the film when you think of it in terms of episodes, because episode lengths vary. He could have had every episode be 48 minutes rather than "add scenes." Because of the freedom of Showtime, there was no need to pad the film, and Lynch could have easily removed an hour or two of material and still came up with 18 Parts. I still think the more expositional scenes like those you mention are in line with those in the original series, and like you say are often telling us what we already know, catching us up in a way that makes me think they are done with a wink and a nod, and keep me on my toes when imbalanced with everything else that is left open to interpretation. They also feel strangely realistic, as sometimes in life people have the same conversations multiple times...it just usually doesn't make for good TV!



That's fair enough, I could be reaching for excuses for my favourite film-maker writing scenes I sometimes find inexplicable. I sadly don't get the 'on the toes' feeling from these kind of scenes. I've exercised restraint in not doing any re-watches so far, out of the desire to be able to re-watch the whole season quite fresh when its all done. Maybe then I will appreciate them more (with no time pressure of limited Twin Peaks remaining). Still, on first watch, I find some of the writing bizarre in that they don't *seem* to match either Mark Frost's quick, propulsive plotting or Lynch's preference for not defining things so literally. So far the viewing experience has been that I've loved seeing these vignettes of the world - scenes that almost exist on their own like mini-set pieces, such as the hit and run, the gun shot in the RR, the Sarah Palmer scenes, 1956, Mr C arm wrestling or anything featuring the white or black lodges. But how these are tied together into both the narrative of TPTR as a whole and into the previous Twin Peak works I'm not yet sold on.
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby cgs027 » Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:23 pm

Pinky wrote:
Troubbble wrote:
Pinky wrote:I hope for Naido's sake that they buy Sarah's story, otherwise she's taking a trip to the holding cells and that will make for an interesting night...


Sarah wasn't in Twin Peaks when she encountered that trucker, was she?

Regardless though, I think the stage *is* set for some strange goings-on to come in those holding cells.


Oh, of course, I didn't think about that, you're right.


Why wouldn't we think Sarah was in the Twin Peaks area? It's certainly likely that there's more than one bar in town, no?
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Troubbble
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby Troubbble » Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:30 pm

cgs027 wrote:
Pinky wrote:
Troubbble wrote:

Sarah wasn't in Twin Peaks when she encountered that trucker, was she?

Regardless though, I think the stage *is* set for some strange goings-on to come in those holding cells.


Oh, of course, I didn't think about that, you're right.


Why wouldn't we think Sarah was in the Twin Peaks area? It's certainly likely that there's more than one bar in town, no?


I can't remember the name of the bar, but it included something which was an analogue of "Deer Meadow."

Strong implication it was outside of Twin Peaks.
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby Dreamy Audrey » Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:39 pm

It was "Elk's Point #9 Bar". I thought it was in Twin Peaks, and I don't think there was anything that suggested it was somewhere else. Sarah was walking there. Why would she walk to a different town to have a drink if she can have a drink in Twin Peaks?
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby rjpierson » Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:42 pm

I'm not sure if anyone else has mentioned this, but when they were walking to the place where they found Naido, that they were in single file in this order Hawk, Truman, Andy, Bobby, until they entered the smoke. Then they were instantly in exactly reversed order. I think that has to be intentional and not an editing mistake.
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Troubbble
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby Troubbble » Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:43 pm

Dreamy Audrey wrote:It was "Elk's Point #9 Bar". I thought it was in Twin Peaks, and I don't think there was anything that suggested it was somewhere else. Sarah was walking there. Why would she walk to a different town to have a drink if she can have a drink in Twin Peaks?


Hmm, maybe you're right.

If she was walking to the bar, and not just from her car, I've forgotten. Took "Elk's Point" as the name of a town given its similarity to Deer Meadow, but agree it makes no sense for her to walk there!
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby Dreamy Audrey » Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:56 pm

Unless she was walking to the bar from the parking lot or bus station :mrgreen: I think there was nothing in that bar that specified the location, it could be anywhere, but I assumed Twin Peaks was the most logical solution because Sarah was walking. And a couple of people in Twin Peaks have deer head and other deer decoration, so a deer reference wouldn't be exclusive for Deer Meadow.
ArthurKing
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby ArthurKing » Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:56 pm

If Mr.C and Mr. Green glove are going to arm wrestle, i'm afraid they'll be in starting position forever.
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby iar » Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:04 pm

I'm delighted that the Giant/Fireman/???????? is playing such a key role in TPTR because back some years ago I chose the Richard Beymer photo print that features DL directing the Giant in the Red Room.
Last edited by iar on Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby BigEd » Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:15 pm

whoisalhedges wrote:
Dreamy Audrey wrote:
BigEd wrote:
Probably in grade school a class had two girls who went by "Janey." One was Janey Evans. One was Janey Cole. So, the teacher called them by Janey-E and Janey-C. Janey-E stuck as a nickname. Probably happens from time to time. 8)

That's my guess as well, but wouldn't she have been "Janey E." rather than "Janey-E"? It seems like the addition of a hyphen was deliberate misleading so everyone would think it's a middle name instead of a last name.

But that's not really how nicknames work... Nicknames can even not have anything to do with given names, like "T-Bone," or (my long-standing nick) "asshole."


Now I'm confused. Are you saying that nicknames absolutely can not work like this? Not sure where you are from, but nicknames can happen many different ways and the way suggested above is absolutely one of them. :roll:
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referendum
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby referendum » Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:34 pm

walking to the bar


Last episode we saw sarah palmer run out of vodka at home.
This episode we see her walking from her house to a bar to get a bloody Mary.

I know there have been arguments about the time-line and continuity in TP TR, but I think the above two scenes occurring one after the other, we can be fairly confident they are connected and that there is no hidden ambiguity. :D :roll:
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Denise's Pieces
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby Denise's Pieces » Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:35 pm

Dreamy Audrey wrote:It was "Elk's Point #9 Bar". I thought it was in Twin Peaks, and I don't think there was anything that suggested it was somewhere else. Sarah was walking there. Why would she walk to a different town to have a drink if she can have a drink in Twin Peaks?

In the real world, Elk's Point #9 Bar is Smokey Joe's Tavern in Snoqualmie, and is a block away from the giant log from the first season intro. Interestingly, it is across the street from the "Woodman Lodge Restaurant Steakhouse".
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby Dreamy Audrey » Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:40 pm

referendum wrote:
walking to the bar


Last episode we saw sarah palmer run out of vodka at home.
This episode we see her walking from her house to a bar to get a bloody Mary.

I know there have been arguments about the time-line and continuity in TP TR, but I think the above two scenes occurring one after the other, we can be fairly confident they are connected and that there is no hidden ambiguity. :D :roll:

But which scene comes first? Is Sarah out of vodka at home, then shopping and then going to the bar because she did not get the right kind of vodka in the grocery store? Or was she first drinking in the bar but after that weird experience decided to buy vodka at the grocery store and drink it at home? :mrgreen: (Just kidding, of course)

Edit: I just realized that if you meant the scene from Part 13 where Sarah is sitting at home in front of the TV, then I did watch them in a different order, because I saw Part 14 with the bar scene first :D

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