Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Discussion of each of the 18 parts of Twin Peaks the Return

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sycamore
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby sycamore » Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:24 pm

sirpsychoswayze wrote:This might be kind of a far-out idea, but does anyone else get the feeling that Lynch might be doing something overtly meta with this season of Twin Peaks, almost like when Stephen King wrote himself into The Dark Tower? Gordon Cole has been such a huge, central character in this iteration and I think there's something really curious about the way he seems to be reconnecting with the world of Twin Peaks. This first time this occurred to me is when Cole had a vision of Laura Palmer in the Buckhorn hotel. The way that scene is presented - almost like a movie theatre projection in his doorway - feels very strange to me; it puts the character at an interesting remove, suggesting that he's passively viewing this thing rather than actively experiencing it.

This disconnect seems to occur again in episode 14, with Cole talking about his dream in a sequence that explicitly references the world of cinema (in this week's episode of A Twin Peaks Podcast, Jeff Jensen and Darren Franich mention that the dream sequence takes place in front of the Renoir Hotel, possibly referencing fellow filmmaker Jean Renoir, and of course we have Monica Bellucci playing herself.) While watching this scene, I was struck with the idea that maybe Cole's dream takes place in our reality - that what we're viewing may actually be David Lynch and Monica Bellucci having coffee, and in the midst discussing some artistic philosophy ("We are like the dreamer..."), Lynch remembers himself experiencing a dream in another life, as the younger Gordon Cole.

I feel like this fits in pretty neatly with all of the dream stuff we've been dealing with in Season 3, a revival that itself feels closer to a reverie with each passing episode. I know Lynch is obsessed with the idea of shared consciousness and the unified field, so I wouldn't be surprised if this season ended with a reveal that suggested that maybe Twin Peaks itself is a nothing but a dreamscape - a sacred place shared between its creators, its viewers and possibly even the characters who inhabit it every day. I don't think anything like that has ever been done on TV before and while it would definitely anger a lot of people, I feel like there's a really exciting opportunity there.


now that's some beautiful, outrageous speculation! if there's one single commonality between us all, it's that we seem to each be surprised and blown away by the directions lynch is taking is every week. whether it's the dream speculation above or some of the other ideas others of us have had or more likely some combination none of us have ever considered ... i'm beginning to see that we're on the best existential roller coaster ever and i can't wait to see where we're going!
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby mtwentz » Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:31 pm

sirpsychoswayze wrote:This might be kind of a far-out idea, but does anyone else get the feeling that Lynch might be doing something overtly meta with this season of Twin Peaks, almost like when Stephen King wrote himself into The Dark Tower? Gordon Cole has been such a huge, central character in this iteration and I think there's something really curious about the way he seems to be reconnecting with the world of Twin Peaks. This first time this occurred to me is when Cole had a vision of Laura Palmer in the Buckhorn hotel. The way that scene is presented - almost like a movie theatre projection in his doorway - feels very strange to me; it puts the character at an interesting remove, suggesting that he's passively viewing this thing rather than actively experiencing it.

This disconnect seems to occur again in episode 14, with Cole talking about his dream in a sequence that explicitly references the world of cinema (in this week's episode of A Twin Peaks Podcast, Jeff Jensen and Darren Franich mention that the dream sequence takes place in front of the Renoir Hotel, possibly referencing fellow filmmaker Jean Renoir, and of course we have Monica Bellucci playing herself.) While watching this scene, I was struck with the idea that maybe Cole's dream takes place in our reality - that what we're viewing may actually be David Lynch and Monica Bellucci having coffee, and in the midst discussing some artistic philosophy ("We are like the dreamer..."), Lynch remembers himself experiencing a dream in another life, as the younger Gordon Cole.

I feel like this fits in pretty neatly with all of the dream stuff we've been dealing with in Season 3, a revival that itself feels closer to a reverie with each passing episode. I know Lynch is obsessed with the idea of shared consciousness and the unified field, so I wouldn't be surprised if this season ended with a reveal that suggested that maybe Twin Peaks itself is a nothing but a dreamscape - a sacred place shared between its creators, its viewers and possibly even the characters who inhabit it every day. I don't think anything like that has ever been done on TV before and while it would definitely anger a lot of people, I feel like there's a really exciting opportunity there.


Actually I was thinking along the same lines, though you have articulated it better than I ever could.
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LateReg
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby LateReg » Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:21 pm

firefly2193 wrote:For me this episode, in contrast to the past few parts highlighted why The Return can be a bit polarising for me. The scenes that feel the most alive and exhilarating are those that engage primarily through visual, intuitive film-making - scenes like the extended Naido/woods scene, or the Sarah Palmer scene. When The Return gets bogged down in characters simply talking in a room, often talking about events that we already know, there's a sense of over-exposition and heavy handedness.

An example of both of these was in the opening scene with Cole's dream. On the one hand, the visual story being told was both tantalising and subtly unnerving. But it was slightly undermined by Cole literally describing the events we were seeing on screen as they happened, or even just before they happened. I feel this could've been entirely more effective if we were simply shown Cole's dream without narration. Essentially, for me the show thrives when it shows rather than tells.


Hi. I agree with what you're saying here about when the show feels most alive. I'm responding to repost a thought I let loose in another thread in regards to the sometimes clunky exposition, as I was pondering this yesterday.

Sometimes we get ZERO information; other times, like when Truman is on the phone with Cole about "two Coopers," we get oddly truncated information, and then other times we get something explained to us nearly completely (sometimes I feel like a bug on a wall, witnessing a natural conversation for a second time, while others I feel like the audience, witnessing a dump of information solely for my benefit). Beyond the fact that I personally think the more expositional elements don't feel much different from certain scenes in the original series and therefore may either be totally sincere or an inside-joke that I'm meant to chuckle at (Albert starts off chunks of exposition with "as you know" for crying out loud!), I think there has to be some intentionality to all of this. At the very least, it adds to the playful and jarring nature of The Return, never allowing a viewer to become comfortable with the way the story is being told. I think it's definitely a calculated part of the wild ride.
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby SpookyDollhouse » Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:49 pm

sirpsychoswayze wrote:This might be kind of a far-out idea, but does anyone else get the feeling that Lynch might be doing something overtly meta with this season of Twin Peaks, almost like when Stephen King wrote himself into The Dark Tower? Gordon Cole has been such a huge, central character in this iteration and I think there's something really curious about the way he seems to be reconnecting with the world of Twin Peaks. This first time this occurred to me is when Cole had a vision of Laura Palmer in the Buckhorn hotel. The way that scene is presented - almost like a movie theatre projection in his doorway - feels very strange to me; it puts the character at an interesting remove, suggesting that he's passively viewing this thing rather than actively experiencing it.

This disconnect seems to occur again in episode 14, with Cole talking about his dream in a sequence that explicitly references the world of cinema (in this week's episode of A Twin Peaks Podcast, Jeff Jensen and Darren Franich mention that the dream sequence takes place in front of the Renoir Hotel, possibly referencing fellow filmmaker Jean Renoir, and of course we have Monica Bellucci playing herself.) While watching this scene, I was struck with the idea that maybe Cole's dream takes place in our reality - that what we're viewing may actually be David Lynch and Monica Bellucci having coffee, and in the midst discussing some artistic philosophy ("We are like the dreamer..."), Lynch remembers himself experiencing a dream in another life, as the younger Gordon Cole.

I feel like this fits in pretty neatly with all of the dream stuff we've been dealing with in Season 3, a revival that itself feels closer to a reverie with each passing episode. I know Lynch is obsessed with the idea of shared consciousness and the unified field, so I wouldn't be surprised if this season ended with a reveal that suggested that maybe Twin Peaks itself is a nothing but a dreamscape - a sacred place shared between its creators, its viewers and possibly even the characters who inhabit it every day. I don't think anything like that has ever been done on TV before and while it would definitely anger a lot of people, I feel like there's a really exciting opportunity there.


I'd be over the moon if it pans out even remotely like this. It'd be SO COOL!
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby BigEd » Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:06 pm

Do we have any idea why the Theresa Banks murder investigation was considered a "Blue Rose Case?" We know she wore the ring. We know she lived at the Fat Trout. How would the FBI have known about the ring? Did the FBI Blue Rose task force understand the significance of the ring? Did they routinely browse the photos in Flesh World? It was only when Sam Stanley found the letter under her fingernail that things started getting a bit "unusual."
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby EddyEdson » Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:50 pm

BigEd wrote:Do we have any idea why the Theresa Banks murder investigation was considered a "Blue Rose Case?" We know she wore the ring. We know she lived at the Fat Trout. How would the FBI have known about the ring? Did the FBI Blue Rose task force understand the significance of the ring? Did they routinely browse the photos in Flesh World? It was only when Sam Stanley found the letter under her fingernail that things started getting a bit "unusual."


I just think that Cole knows & always has known far more than he lets on ....
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby 430RichardandLinda » Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:33 pm

Hester Prynne wrote:Haven't been able to keep up with the thread today, but have been thinking a lot about the dream theme from this episode and the season as a whole, especially all of the weird conversations we've seen in the Roadhouse. Aren't these like weird conversations we would overhear in a dream - things that don't make sense and appear out of nowhere like the penguin and zebra conversation? "I had the weirdest dream last night - there were two girls talking about a penguin and zebra. One of the girls had a weird rash under her arm, and she kept drinking from an empty beer can."

Then sometimes there will be a certain dream thread that mutates into a different scene or story in our minds - the endless Billy references remind me of this a lot. - The numerous Billys in the show, the guy running into the RR and asking if anyone's seen Billy, Audrey's story, the girls at the bar - it's like a contagious idea or image from a dream that keeps repeating and taking different forms in the show. There have been a few things that have seemed crazy and off the wall even for Twin Peaks - the sick zombie girl in the car who is being taken to see her uncle - then the mention of an uncle in the bar scene with the two girls. Freddie's bizarre green hand is like something out of a comic book and the fact his name is that of another tv character - is Monica Bellucci right? Is someone dreaming all of this? Did the Woodsmen put everyone to sleep so that they could live out their lives in nightmares or sleepwalk through their acts of evil? Is this one person's dream? Have the gateways allowed characters' dreams to invade and carry out their stories in reality?


The sheriff's uncle was in federal prison in FWWM... HMMMMMM
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Jackpots » Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:11 pm

rdowens1215 wrote:I think Laura Palmer will return, in some form, to defeat BOB. Interesting that Laura's face removal revealed a bright white light in contrast to Sara's darkness and indwelling entity. Also, The Fireman showed Laura flanked by angels.

God.I.Love.This.Show!

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It's would be beautiful to see Sarah and Laura reunited before this ends.

I had been feeling so sad for Sarah. Turns out she's capable of some monstrous things.
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby Esselgee » Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:27 pm

So Diane and Janey-E both likely had the same father, right? Janey-E = Janey Evans. Assuming Diane was never married or still has her original last name.
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby N. Needleman » Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:29 pm

The E is for Evans. IIRC Diane said her birth name was "Jane Evans". "Everyone calls her Janey-E."
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby Dreamy Audrey » Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:58 pm

Janey-E's birth name wasn't mentioned by Diane, but I also assumed that E = Evans. But why is it hyphenated if it's her last name?
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby BigEd » Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:02 pm

Dreamy Audrey wrote:Janey-E's birth name wasn't mentioned by Diane, but I also assumed that E = Evans. But why is it hyphenated if it's her last name?


Probably in grade school a class had two girls who went by "Janey." One was Janey Evans. One was Janey Cole. So, the teacher called them by Janey-E and Janey-C. Janey-E stuck as a nickname. Probably happens from time to time. 8)
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby Endangered_Wulf » Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:15 pm

Yep, all I can say is WOW, LYNCH, WOW.


This episode indeed 'rocks'.
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BigEd
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby BigEd » Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:23 pm

BigEd wrote:
Dreamy Audrey wrote:Janey-E's birth name wasn't mentioned by Diane, but I also assumed that E = Evans. But why is it hyphenated if it's her last name?


Probably in grade school a class had two girls who went by "Janey." One was Janey Evans. One was Janey Cole. So, the teacher called them by Janey-E and Janey-C. Janey-E stuck as a nickname. Probably happens from time to time. 8)


LOL. That was a clue that they placed right under our noses and the collective never figured it out! :lol: :lol:
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby Wonderful & Strange » Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:24 pm

Anyone else think that Naido is Laura in a hidden form?
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