Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Discussion of each of the 18 parts of Twin Peaks the Return

Moderators: Brad D, Annie, Jonah, BookhouseBoyBob, Ross, Jerry Horne

User avatar
Mr. Reindeer
Lodge Member
Posts: 3680
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:09 pm

Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Post by Mr. Reindeer »

People still seem to be anticipating that this "Sparkle" drug is going to be some huge plot point. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this was mentioned once back in Part 4, correct? Yes, there's definitely a general theme of kids in the town of TP being on drugs (as there was in the original as well), but I think that specific dialogue was just to set up the "dirty Chad" subplot. I really don't think there's going to be some big reveal of a specific laced drug underlying all the darkness/weird behavior....we're just seeing Trainspotting by way of David Lynch.

The "teapot" doesn't bother me, although I like it less than the "Evolution of the Arm." It's a Lynchian solution to that dreaded notion of recasting. However, I wish he hadn't decided to hire an impersonator to imitate Bowie's Southern affect. Why not just have a distorted and uncredited voice a la the EotA? Frizzell was a great mimic in his one copycat line reading in Part 14, but it fell apart in this one. The impersonation of Bowie's (charmingly) awful dialect work was kinda embarrassing.
Rhodes wrote:
WhiteLodge90 wrote:I'm still holding out hope for at the very LEAST one surprise return. Have it be Harry or Josie, Annie, Windom Earle or Desmond in the red room in the last episode. I need at least one big unannounced cameo. Hopefully we get it!
Weren't we promised SEVERAL surprise cameo's (actors that were not on the casting list) by insiders?
We were. And it's seeming pretty unlikely IMO, since 15 hours in, the "217" cast list has more or less been a bible for the show's credits. As I've said before, the only people it would make any sense to withhold are Bowie and Ontkean. Now that Bowie is off the table, I have my fingers crossed for the Harry Skype call that I've been predicting since before we saw Frank's elaborate computer setup.
User avatar
mtwentz
Lodge Member
Posts: 2185
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2015 10:02 am

Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Post by mtwentz »

The teapot didn't do much for me either. Gotta sympathize with Lynch though. To make up both Jeffries and The Arms at the last minute was a pretty tall order.
F*&^ you Gene Kelly
douglasb
RR Diner Member
Posts: 241
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 1:51 pm
Location: Exiled in England
Contact:

Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Post by douglasb »

Full marks to whoever posted about Frost's cameo and the character being in the woods 'looking for the story.'
claaa7
Great Northern Member
Posts: 715
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2014 2:47 am

Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Post by claaa7 »

Mr. Reindeer wrote:People still seem to be anticipating that this "Sparkle" drug is going to be some huge plot point. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this was mentioned once back in Part 4, correct? Yes, there's definitely a general theme of kids in the town of TP being on drugs (as there was in the original as well), but I think that specific dialogue was just to set up the "dirty Chad" subplot. I really don't think there's going to be some big reveal of a specific laced drug underlying all the darkness/weird behavior....we're just seeing Trainspotting by way of David Lynch.
i'm co-signing this as well.. it was a throwaway line in episode 6 made by Red who said: "we can move the sparkle directly from Canada..." or something to that effect. till i rewatched i've been slightly confused by all this discussion about some designer drug called sparkle that's flooding Twin Peaks. the way i read it is that it's either cocaine or meth, both of which have a million nicknames from different users/abusers.. e.g. sparkle.
User avatar
Novalis
RR Diner Member
Posts: 431
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:18 pm

Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Post by Novalis »

Very yrev rewarding part this week.

So heartbreaking to let go of Coulson and Lanterman together like that in one scene. Hawk said all he could meaningfully say to her, bearing in mind that the two of them likely have a very different understanding of death to most of the audience and have talked about it in their own time and on their own terms.

Also heartbreaking to see Bowie replaced with this voice-acted-teapot (not sure if this is all that much better than the feared monkey recast), although I admit to loving the route DoppelCoop took to getting to see him (so is this "the Dutchmans'"?), complete with my much anticipated this-would-look-nice-on-your-wall flowery wallpaper rooms from FWWM, a woodsman sitting at an antique radiogram arcing with eeelektricitee and an all-too-brief jumping man segment (but great googly moogly -- with Sarah Palmer's face?). The backwards-speaking motel manager was a surprise. Jeffries himself was as cryptic as ever and only really muddied the water for me. Is the convenience store some kind of TARDIS now?

Judy. The Garland theory is an old one and is superficially pleasing given what we know of Lynch's Ozmania, but has drawbacks: in FWWM Jeffries says 'well now, we're not going to talk about Judy -- we're not going to talk about Judy at all, we're going to keep her out of this'; as noted also the Buenos Aires hotel concierge's conversation with Jeffries in TMP concerned a girl. Frankly I'd be disappointed if Judy turned out to be Major Briggs.

Ed and Norma. Hmm. Ok. I guess this is what redemption and closure feels like in the Return, but as with other so-happy-it's-unreal moments in Lynch I note the overblown blue skies and colour saturation of the hills (for once free of fog) tend to suffuse the scene with a paradoxical awareness of its conventionality, bucolic pastoral quality and manufacturedness. This doesn't prevent me from feeling happy for them, but it also reminds me that getting what you want is often laced with destruction of the fantasies and obstacles that made it worthwhile dreaming. This is somewhere between 'classic' Twin Peaks in its soapy melodramatic pay-off moments and the hyper-real euphoria when the robins return in BV. In a way I'd be happier not knowing what happens to these two from hereon in, unless it's to catch up with the strangely absent Annie connection.

Gersten and Stephen in the woods felt atmospherically bleak and claustrophobic. I don't know exactly what is supposed to have happened but it is dire and there's no-where else to go but down the barrel of a gun. I feel sad that no-one was able to help this guy realise what he has been doing to himself -- so much isolation in a privatised modern life that young people can literally poison themselves into a perpetual stupor where the only things of value are the next hit and the fetishised 'partial objects' of porn sex. Gersten: it probably doesn't feel like it right now, but you're suddenly far better off. No-one can carry an addict.

Glad I managed to post my appreciation of Patrick Fischler in the Duncan Todd thread before this episode. I had a feeling his days were numbered. Poor Roger though... if only Todd hadn't called him in at that moment he'd be at home with his family tonight eating meatloaf and ordering them a gym set. Looks like Todd set the scope of his warning too narrow: you'd better hope your boss never had anyone like that in their life.

Punchup at the roadhouse. Hmm. Sort of confirmed my irritation with this Freddie character and his story, but ok.

Somehow we knew the TV would be instrumental in helping jog DougieCoop's memory. Wonderful moment, brilliantly procrastinated and deferred in what has gone before. Also I think a sly in-universe acknowledgement of the origins of Lynch's character's name; I much prefer this honesty about cinematic influence from him.

Ruby lifted from her seat was both initially visually funny and totally, horrifically, dehumanising. Those two often go together, but the music highlighted the seriousness. Her suppliant crawling and screaming on the dancefloor was extremely powerful, and the arcing lights were good expressionist touches. Whether they signal something more widespread is an interesting question.

The Sheriff Department's cells are getting awfully crowded now. It's getting riotous in there with all the strange 'conversations' that will be taking place. And in the middle of it all, Chad in a well-deserved hell, his very own nuthouse.

Audrey and Charlie. Sign me up for a stage play featuring these two, somewhere between Sartre's No Exit and Beckett's Waiting for Godot. Let's call it 'The Lurker at the Threshold' after Derleth's Lovecraftian tale, but restrict it completely to the interior of this home. Three or maybe four hours long, solely concerned with Audrey and Charlie's continuing plans to leave the house and go someplace else, and the myriad of ways in which they keep managing to sabotage it. I love it already.

Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen: the feeling is that 'the return to Twin Peaks' aspect of The Return will be a blow-out all-thing-Twin-Peaks celebration, piling layer upon layer of stuff the previous episodes have largely deprived the audience of. Speaking more seriously, I don't know if this will hold up as a prediction, and if it does, I don't know how successful it will be at drawing back the nay-sayers.
As a matter of fact, 'Chalfont' was the name of the people that rented this space before. Two Chalfonts. Weird, huh?
User avatar
sycamore
Roadhouse Member
Posts: 77
Joined: Tue May 23, 2017 9:41 am

Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Post by sycamore »

sylviecerise wrote:(taken from reddit)

Someone caught what appears to be Sarah's face superposed over the Jumping Man

Image

And from the last episode, when Sarah removes her face, we saw something that looked like the Jumping Man's nose.
Remember my comments from the Part 8 thread, when I wrote about the moth-frog climbing into the girl's mouth being the beginning of the Jumping Man?
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=3650&p=92171#p92171

With this revelation in Part 15, it certainly seems as though we were all correct about this girl being a young Sarah Palmer. But I'm not so sure about the MIKE connection that I made back then.
sycamore wrote:There have now been three characters with long, pointy noses. As I mentioned before, Carlton Lee Russell, who plays the Jumping Man in FWWM is on the season three cast list that was released in 2016 (he has not yet appeared so far - not even as another character). We've all been talking about Bob. At some point, we'll surely be introduced to his partner in crime: Mike. Is Mike the Jumping Man? We know Phillip Gerard is inhabited by Mike. We know the Man From Another Place is The Arm. We know that the Man From Anther Place and the Jumping Man both wear red suits and are part of the same lodge. We see the Jumping Man as a potentially siginficant character in FWWM (placed behind the Man From Another Place and in strong lighting). We know Bob came in an orb. We see Bob partially come out of Mr C as an orb. The moth-frog comes from an egg. Is the moth-frog the beginning of the Jumping Man / Mike? Thoughts?

Love this DKL discussion of frog-moths:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aW6yZC9ZzDI
(from his quinoa video):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11p0y9z1XOU
Attachments
IMG_0007.JPG
IMG_0007.JPG (41.65 KiB) Viewed 9832 times
IMG_0008.PNG
IMG_0008.PNG (210.84 KiB) Viewed 9832 times
IMG_0009.JPG
IMG_0009.JPG (711.78 KiB) Viewed 9832 times
Last edited by sycamore on Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
frahm9
Roadhouse Member
Posts: 42
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2016 5:26 am

Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Post by frahm9 »

Does someone have that pic of the convenience store someone posted in the long dead SPOILER thread back in the day?

I recall he or she split the pic in pieces and shared one every other day, which was fun.
This was a vision, fresh and clear as a mountain stream. The mind revealing itself to itself.
User avatar
Jonah
Global Moderator
Posts: 2815
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 8:39 am

Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Post by Jonah »

Not sure how to embed the video on this link, but I thought this was cool. :)
https://twitter.com/FansMadchen/status/ ... 8931568641
I have no idea where this will lead us, but I have a definite feeling it will be a place both wonderful and strange.
User avatar
dustoff
Roadhouse Member
Posts: 57
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2017 5:28 am

Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Post by dustoff »

Novalis wrote:
Audrey and Charlie. Sign me up for a stage play featuring these two, somewhere between Sartre's No Exit and Beckett's Waiting for Godot. Let's call it 'The Lurker at the Threshold' after Derleth's Lovecraftian tale, but restrict it completely to the interior of this home. Three or maybe four hours long, solely concerned with Audrey and Charlie's continuing plans to leave the house and go someplace else, and the myriad of ways in which they keep managing to sabotage it. I love it already.
That play has been written, it's called "Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf" :D
vicksvapor77
Great Northern Member
Posts: 584
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:51 pm

Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Post by vicksvapor77 »

sewhite2000 wrote:I had been hoping for a Bobby/James scene together all season, these two once-mortal enemies, bound in a way for life by their intense connections to Laura, I thought might now be friends, both in the Bookhouse Boys, perhaps. I was sad their shared screen time was so inconsequential. They didn't speak to each other, didn't even acknowledge each other. I was waiting for one of them to say to the other, "Well, you and I have been here before." But no.
That really bothered me too. I hate wasted on screen potential.
User avatar
Troubbble
RR Diner Member
Posts: 173
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:55 am

Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Post by Troubbble »

claaa7 wrote:
Mr. Reindeer wrote:People still seem to be anticipating that this "Sparkle" drug is going to be some huge plot point. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this was mentioned once back in Part 4, correct? Yes, there's definitely a general theme of kids in the town of TP being on drugs (as there was in the original as well), but I think that specific dialogue was just to set up the "dirty Chad" subplot. I really don't think there's going to be some big reveal of a specific laced drug underlying all the darkness/weird behavior....we're just seeing Trainspotting by way of David Lynch.
i'm co-signing this as well.. it was a throwaway line in episode 6 made by Red who said: "we can move the sparkle directly from Canada..." or something to that effect. till i rewatched i've been slightly confused by all this discussion about some designer drug called sparkle that's flooding Twin Peaks. the way i read it is that it's either cocaine or meth, both of which have a million nicknames from different users/abusers.. e.g. sparkle.
Cocaine and heroin are not designer drugs. This is a specific, FICTIONAL designer drug that everyone's taking - thus, some of us refer to it as Sparkle, as Red did.

How significant this is to the story is unclear, but the more references and allusions they make to the effects, the more important I feel these details are. It's all just too weird.

And the guy who's bringing the stuff into town is even weirder! The longer we go without seeing more of Red to flesh him out, the more his "magic trick" is emphasized in my mind as critical. There's more to him, and to all of this, than is readily apparent.
User avatar
sycamore
Roadhouse Member
Posts: 77
Joined: Tue May 23, 2017 9:41 am

Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Post by sycamore »

sycamore wrote:
sylviecerise wrote:(taken from reddit)

Someone caught what appears to be Sarah's face superposed over the Jumping Man. And from the last episode, when Sarah removes her face, we saw something that looked like the Jumping Man's nose.
Remember my comments from the Part 8 thread, when I wrote about the moth-frog climbing into the girl's mouth being the beginning of the Jumping Man?
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=3650&p=92171#p92171

With this revelation in Part 15, it certainly seems as though we were all correct about this girl being a young Sarah Palmer. But I'm not so sure about the MIKE connection that I made back then.
sycamore wrote:There have now been three characters with long, pointy noses. As I mentioned before, Carlton Lee Russell, who plays the Jumping Man in FWWM is on the season three cast list that was released in 2016 (he has not yet appeared so far - not even as another character). We've all been talking about Bob. At some point, we'll surely be introduced to his partner in crime: Mike. Is Mike the Jumping Man? We know Phillip Gerard is inhabited by Mike. We know the Man From Another Place is The Arm. We know that the Man From Anther Place and the Jumping Man both wear red suits and are part of the same lodge. We see the Jumping Man as a potentially siginficant character in FWWM (placed behind the Man From Another Place and in strong lighting). We know Bob came in an orb. We see Bob partially come out of Mr C as an orb. The moth-frog comes from an egg. Is the moth-frog the beginning of the Jumping Man / Mike? Thoughts?

Love this DKL discussion of frog-moths:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aW6yZC9ZzDI
(from his quinoa video):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11p0y9z1XOU
So, I raise the question: Who is this Jumping Man who has been featured so prominently in the most minuscule amount of screen time? I originally conjectured that maybe the Jumping Man is MIKE ... I'm not so sure about that anymore. If the Jumping Man was birthed into Sarah Palmer ... And, since mother birthed BOB, who went from Mr Robertson to Leland Palmer to Dale Cooper ... And Sarah Palmer and Leland Palmer birthed Laura Palmer via The Fireman/???????/Giant ...

These are the groups of relationships I hope to see us all work on explaining. Why are these beings in their particular group together? What are their reasons for existing and the driving motivations of each group? Below is a really rough sketch of something that's way bigger than I alone can figure out.

White Lodge
The Fireman/???????/Giant
Dale Cooper (good)
Senorita Dido
Laura Palmer (orb)
Naido
American Girl
Andy Brennan
reasons for existing and driving motivations:
To put out the Fire.

Black Lodge
Mother
BOB (Mr Robertson / Leland Palmer / Dale Cooper)
reasons for existing and driving motivations:
After the great Fire of the atomic bomb blast, a rift between two worlds was opened and Mother spewed eggs of evil onto earth.

MIKE (we've never actually seen the real face of MIKE. not like we've seen the real face of BOB. at least not knowingly. why not? who's MIKE? If we're going to get some answers about Judy, we should surely get some answers about MIKE, right? He's the biggest presence we know almost nothing about.)
Phillip Gerard
Little Man From Another Place
Evolution of the Arm
reasons for existing and driving motivations:
was MIKE originally birthed by Mother, then, 'saw the face of God', 'cut off the arm', and is now the Water to put out the Fire?

Mrs Chalfont and son
reasons for existing and driving motivations:
Unknown but her son's pointy nose mask ties in with the next group.

Moth-Frog
Girl (1956)
Mrs Chalfont's Son
Jumping Man
Sarah Palmer
Pale Horse
Woodsman (who seemed to 'call' the Moth-Frog into the young girl's mouth)
reasons for existing and driving motivations:
"This is the water. And this is the well. Drink full and descend. The horse is the white of the eyes and dark within." (and note the neighing of horses at the end of Part 8 - an audio cue that correlates to the Pale Horse and Sarah Palmer)
See my post about this here:
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=3650&p=91865#p91865

Phillip Jeffries
Dale Cooper (evil)
Garland Briggs
Bosomy Woman
Judy
Woodsmen
Chet Desmond? (does he really belong in this group?)
Lil (does she really belong in this group?)
William Hastings
Ruth Davenport
Ray
reasons for existing and driving motivations:
investigating and completely drawn into ... something bigger than they knew.

Margaret Lanterman, The Log Lady
Deputy Tommy 'Hawk' Hill
reasons for existing and driving motivations:
Seers

Who else am I forgetting and what group of relationships/motivations do they belong in?
PeaksCarnivaleLost
Roadhouse Member
Posts: 58
Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2016 11:00 am

Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Post by PeaksCarnivaleLost »

ThumbsUp wrote:Also, Naido making monkey sounds in the cell reminds me of the monkey in FWWM and "Judy." Why make monkey sounds of all noises?

Don't forget the mask on the monkey/kid as that scene goes by. Indicating no site from that entity. (whatever shape they are currently taking)
Monkey sounds clinched in last week.
bastia
Roadhouse Member
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:41 pm

Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Post by bastia »

At first I thought Judy was Major Briggs, but I am thinking that it will be reveal that Judy is Laura or Sarah.

Jeffries gave Mr C the coordinates in the above the Convenience store and then said that cooper already met judy, so I thought about sarah or laura.

The coordinates will bring all of them to TP, they will lead to the palmer house
User avatar
sycamore
Roadhouse Member
Posts: 77
Joined: Tue May 23, 2017 9:41 am

Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Post by sycamore »

Troubbble wrote:Wanted to post the lyrics to the closing song, "Axolotl" by The Veils.

To me, this is an incredible selection, with clear connections to the scene with Steven and the ongoing "sparkle" intrigue:
I'm glowing bright, obsidian
Axolotl, amphibian
Un-elemental chemicals
Got me growing six black tentacles

A little nightmarish, a little maudlin
Good golly go get the kid some laudanum!
Salvation's more than I can afford
Who needs The Devil when you've got The Lord?

Oh my soul
Losing control
Who built this heart?
Oh my God.

Now Sister Maggie's coming in fleet-foot
Baby's got a belly full of black soot
I've got the feeling I'd better just stay put
Ah she'll love you better than any real man could

An accidental amphibian
I'm growing giddy as a Gideon
Another head for the chopping board
Who needs The Devil when you've got The Lord?

Oh my soul
Who's in control
Who built this heart?
Oh my God.
Oh, and in case you didn't know what an axolotl was...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axolotl
from wiki: "The axolotl's real world ability to regrow limbs served as the inspiration for the Tleilaxu axlotl tanks in the fictional Dune universe created by Frank Herbert." whaaaaaaaaaaaaat?
Post Reply