Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Postby Ross » Mon Aug 21, 2017 12:52 pm

Too bad about the Jeffries date mixup. More TP date problems...
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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Postby Snailhead » Mon Aug 21, 2017 12:58 pm

The Ed and Norma scene was divine. I'm surprised that people aren't into it - it's one of the rare moments of warmth in Twin Peaks that we've seen this time around. Seeing her hand on Ed's shoulder gave me shivers. I felt like Shelly and I got a little teary myself. The stop and start of the music was a really inspired touch. The exteriors throughout were really nice. I was also touched by Nadine's part. I wonder if she's gonna head to visit Dr Amp next ?

I loved seeing "above the convenience store" and the wallpaper from Laura's dream in FWWM. The scene was a little drawn out at times but had some marvelous visuals. I was pleased that Judy is relevant once more - I had abandoned hope of her showing up/being mentioned. I like that it's someone we already know... Laura? Naido? Sarah Palmer? Overall, seeing Jeffries felt a little anticlimactic. Was hoping he'd be a monkey and all.
I will say that I find that the camera and lighting isn't very flattering in the low lighting settings, unfortunately. Maybe it's my TV screen. Loving all the forest exteriors, though.

One thing that bothered me a little - how did Richard end up outside the Convenience store? Was he following Coop in a separate vehicle that he then abandoned? IT seemed like he just appeared out of thin air.

I'm relieved James's gloved friend has used his power - this means it's less likely he's gonna use the glove to kill Bad coop or something disproportionately important to his character. The scene itself was pretty silly. I felt like it was a bit of a missed opportunity that there was no interaction between Bobby & James considering the parallel to the pilot/ep 1 of the original season. Interesting with Chuck to see the different characters name dropped in Audrey's first scene finally show up.

Wasn't sure about the Audrey scene. So far her scene in part 13 remains her strongest.

Was a little disappointed we didn't get Sarah Palmer after seeing her 3 parts in a row, but the brief flash of her face morphed with the Jumping Man is really exciting and suggests she's gonna be a big part of the climax.

edit: OH and the final Roadhouse scene was fantastic. The music was stellar and it was refreshing to see a scene play out completely visually like that, without strangers talking about people we don't know.
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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Postby Cappy » Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:06 pm

I'm not expecting Harry Truman to make an appearance this season, but it would be quite a thrill for him to be revealed as the person trying to kill DoppelCoop.
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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Postby douglasb » Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:15 pm

To go from the Becky shoots the door sequence (and RR scene) to Becky calling Shelly to Steven in the woods is not great storytelling. There has to be some literal missing pieces there, some kind of exposition.
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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Postby starmand » Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:17 pm

Snailhead wrote:One thing that bothered me a little - how did Richard end up outside the Convenience store? Was he following Coop in a separate vehicle that he then abandoned? IT seemed like he just appeared out of thin air.


You can see Richard's car in the background of one of the shots.
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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Postby Manwith » Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:18 pm

Esselgee wrote:
thedarktrees wrote:
Esselgee wrote:So how was Richard Horne able to find DoppelCoop just based on an old photo his mother had? This guy is good! He's making the FBI look bad. Gordon Cole really needs to hire him.


I think the idea is that he followed him after witnessing him kill Ray at the Farm.

BUT: I wonder if Richard was also able to see the convenience store? Or whether DoppelCoop just vanished in front of him and then reappeared. That's a bit less clear.


I was thinking that Richard had gone to the Farm with intention of finding Cooper. If that's not the case, then what led Richard to the Farm? He just wanted to join up with a gang of criminals? How did he find out about the Farm? From Red? It's an awfully big coincidence for him to be there when DoppelCoop just happens to show up if he didn't go there looking for Cooper.


The bit with Richard finding Cooper at the farm reminds me of a subplot in Carnivale where a character is drawn to their supernatural evil father without knowing it, it's destiny. I figure Richard was driven by a supernatural subconscious drive to find his father, assuming Dopplecoop really is his father.
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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Postby windh » Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:27 pm

Hester Prynne wrote:
mtwentz wrote:
Hester Prynne wrote:
What was the movie he was watching? What did they say that snapped him out of it and made him go to the electrical outlet?


They said, "Gordon Cole"


Geez! I need a new tv! I didn't hear "Gordon Cole" at all because the sound is crap. No wonder I couldn't figure out what the hell had happened. . .


If you ever get a chance to watch it with GREAT sound, I'd strongly recommend it!
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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Postby windh » Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:29 pm

JohnPalSki wrote:Did anyone else get the feeling that the Cooper in the scene from FWWM with Jeffries, Cole, and Albert.... that that may have been the Bad Coop??...


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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Postby alreadygoneplaces » Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:36 pm

Cipher wrote:
I read the return of the motel from FWWM as being a shadow of a real-world location that had picked up emotional ties to the Lodge (surely Jeffries isn't chilling in one of the real-world rooms in that state, and guests wouldn't need Lodge entities to unlock the doors).


There's been very little said about the change of shot at the very end of the credits, which shows the motel turn to a new location, with 'Bosomy Woman' stands in the distance quite terrifyingly. I took that place as potentially being a real-world counterpart.

But I also really don't think Jeffries was actually there... the image that manifested where the motel wall was seemed to be an entirely different location- the Art Deco decor and bell reminding me of the Fireman's and/or Naido's exit room. I think that motel room was a place for long distance communication, if you will...

Mr. Reindeer wrote:The "teapot" doesn't bother me, although I like it less than the "Evolution of the Arm." It's a Lynchian solution to that dreaded notion of recasting. However, I wish he hadn't decided to hire an impersonator to imitate Bowie's Southern affect. Why not just have a distorted and uncredited voice a la the EotA? Frizzell was a great mimic in his one copycat line reading in Part 14, but it fell apart in this one. The impersonation of Bowie's (charmingly) awful dialect work was kinda embarrassing.


I'm hoping to get a better idea of why recasting is considered such a no-no. Especially in Bowie's case. I'm really, really surprised not have seen anyone share my wish that Jeffries had been recast. I also would have loved a recast old woman and grandson. Although I guess that still could happen, however doubtful.

Novalis wrote:although I admit to loving the route DoppelCoop took to getting to see him (so is this "the Dutchmans'"?)


I think Jeffries was at the "the Dutchmans" but not the doppelgänger. Interested if anyone else saw it that way too.

Novalis wrote:Audrey and Charlie. Sign me up for a stage play featuring these two, somewhere between Sartre's No Exit and Beckett's Waiting for Godot.


Ouch... it hurt a little to see the Audrey/Charlie scenes compared to Waiting for Godot... but then, those scenes are some of the only ones that are consistently really missing the mark for me on almost every level. For sure it feels like that's vaguely what they were aiming for, however.

sycamore wrote:
Remember my comments from the Part 8 thread, when I wrote about the moth-frog climbing into the girl's mouth being the beginning of the Jumping Man?

With this revelation in Part 15, it certainly seems as though we were all correct about this girl being a young Sarah Palmer. But I'm not so sure about the MIKE connection that I made back then.


It's certainly a possibility, but I don't think it confirms anything other than the connection between Sarah and The Jumping Man. What you've said still relies on the assumption that the frog-bug is the Jumping Man, and (more significantly) that Sarah was inhabited before Series 1, which I wouldn't really sit right with me.

Esselgee wrote:I was thinking that Richard had gone to the Farm with intention of finding Cooper. If that's not the case, then what led Richard to the Farm? He just wanted to join up with a gang of criminals? How did he find out about the Farm? From Red? It's an awfully big coincidence for him to be there when DoppelCoop just happens to show up if he didn't go there looking for Cooper.


The farm seems like the place to go for a criminal on the run wanting to lay low. He seems deep enough in the local underworld to know about it. Sure, he's no master criminal, but then again, neither are most of the farm's inhabitants, by the look of things!

N. Needleman wrote:
Jacob wrote:On Part 14, Lynch used footage of Part 1 + Part 8 in order to show her to Andy and make him understand she's a threat to Naido. Honestly, it seems like a budget issue.


I disagree. I think you're applying the narrative framework you envisioned from those parts in your head to the ongoing story, in the style of a more traditional genre show. But the Mother is really not a constant topic in the first half of the series. We see her briefly in the opening, then again briefly in part 8.

I think it's quite possible the Mother will reappear and be a major force, but I don't think she was held back because of budget. It was done because Lynch felt like not tipping his hand and is not running a show similar to others.


Re: the part I put in bold - indeed, even calling Experiment "Mother" is doing this to some degree.

Esselgee wrote:It would have been nice to see the Log Lady on screen with another character. They could have had Michael Horse go to wherever they filmed her scenes to have Hawk check in on her. I'm guessing they filmed at Catherine's actual apartment or house.


Yes... I did love this scene, and it hit me pretty hard. But it's a shame circumstances dictated that Hawk seemed happy enough to let her die alone (unless you count her log, which admittedly, we probably should).
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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Postby N. Needleman » Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:37 pm

Jacob wrote:Oh come on ! That's not a brief mention, that's THE mention of the scene, about someone who won't stop BANGING at the door ! It's not brief, it's something omnipresent from the beginning to the end of the scene. She's EVERYWHERE.


We don't have any idea what the Mother is in first viewing that part though. At the time the American Girl's statement is cryptic nonsense we can't make sense of. It's not something that hangs over the proceedings IMO until part 8 helps bring it somewhat into focus. We're projecting our own persona lnterpretation onto it even now by calling it "Mother", as the poster above says. But we have no ownership over the true nature of this creature or its potential arc significance, because even now we barely comprehend it.

don't act like the character is not an antagonist on the show.


I'm not - I'm saying you were apparently expecting it to play regularly on the show like a creature on Lost or whatever, but Lynch is evidently not into doing that. That doesn't mean he's wrong, it just means he made a different choice than what you would prefer. For me, the creeping hints of the Mother that we've had are more than enough given all the other horrors or antagonists seen thus far (Evil Coop, the Woodsmen, the sick folks in Twin Peaks, Richard, the occasional hint of BOB).
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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Postby dustoff » Mon Aug 21, 2017 2:15 pm

douglasb wrote:To go from the Becky shoots the door sequence (and RR scene) to Becky calling Shelly to Steven in the woods is not great storytelling. There has to be some literal missing pieces there, some kind of exposition.


Agreed. The way that narrative thread is presented makes it hard to care about any of it.
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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Postby Jonah » Mon Aug 21, 2017 2:32 pm

Is there any truth to this old rumour about two seasons being filmed?
http://welcometotwinpeaks.com/news/twin-peaks-wrapped-2-seasons-or-more/
What do you all think? Or was this a mistake caused by the confusion of the bump from 9 episodes to 18?
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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Postby Jonah » Mon Aug 21, 2017 2:36 pm

dustoff wrote:
douglasb wrote:To go from the Becky shoots the door sequence (and RR scene) to Becky calling Shelly to Steven in the woods is not great storytelling. There has to be some literal missing pieces there, some kind of exposition.


Agreed. The way that narrative thread is presented makes it hard to care about any of it.

There's a lot of problems with the narrative in the new series. A lot of lazy writing and strange editing choices. They're discussing the Ed/Nadine stuff in the disappointed thread, which is another good example of this - no build up to this story (within the current series), we didn't even know they were still married! There's been a lot of strange choices in the narrative. Only so much can be put down to style/artistic choices imo. Some of it is just shoddy. And I think some of it is due to 1.) the increase to 18 episodes despite a 400 page script more suited to a tighter 9-episode season and 2.) focusing on more off-the-wall scenes (such as the vacuuming scene). There's a lot of sparks of genius in this new series, but I think by the time we look back on it as a whole, it will be considered even weaker - in some respects - than Season 2 as an overall narrative. Then again, the finale could be so amazing that maybe not. Hard to tell. But there's been a lot of poor narrative choices made and a lot of weak characterisation.
Actually, now that some time has passed, I like "The full blossom of the evening".
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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Postby Ross » Mon Aug 21, 2017 2:45 pm

So I guess the theory that the scene of Hawk at Glastonbury Grove in ep 1 takes place In the future is debunked now. He was on the phone with Margaret.
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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Postby Jonah » Mon Aug 21, 2017 2:50 pm

Ross wrote:So I guess the theory that the scene of Hawk at Glastonbury Grove in ep 1 takes place In the future is debunked now. He was on the phone with Margaret.

I never understood why that theory was so strong. I know people thought it was strange that Hawk didn't mention it (onscreen anyway) to anyone, but I didn't find it that strange. I've been very critical of some of the narrative choices made in the new series, and you could chalk this down to being of the same ilk, but I never thought that particular oversight was a big deal. After all, he just saw a glimpse of the curtains and could have put it down to his imagination. Or it's possible a lot of people are aware of the curtains being there anyway. Harry saw them in Episode 29 - and saw Cooper's doppleganger and Annie emerge from them, so no doubt Frank and others would have heard about it too. So I didn't find it too peculiar that that scene of Hawk seeing them wasn't followed up on.
Actually, now that some time has passed, I like "The full blossom of the evening".

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