Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

[John Justice Wheeler]

I didn't really get 'teapot' when we met Phillip Jeffries. I thought it was the same kind of bell shaped thing that was in the Giant's residence and in the room that Cooper gets transported to in outer space.

That's exactly what I thought too. Teapot never entered my mind until I began reading comments after the show.

I thought and still think it's more like the tank incubator of the third stage Guild navigators in Dune (going along nicely with Castle Caladan from parts three and eight). "Teapot" never crossed my mind. Obviously industrial motifs with steam and smoke are common to Lynch.

[Cooperscoffeecup]

If Candy is not involved with stopping Chantal in LV, then I will be disappointed.

I do love the Candy character, but she is a space cadet. I would love to see how would she would stop Chantal? I originally thought Candy may have been an undercover cop, but looks highly unlikely as time progresses.

[Deep Thought]

If Candy is not involved with stopping Chantal in LV, then I will be disappointed.

I do love the Candy character, but she is a space cadet. I would love to see how would she would stop Chantal? I originally thought Candy may have been an undercover cop, but looks highly unlikely as time progresses.

Maybe she has a white lace glove, just one.

[kornishpyxee]

If Candy is not involved with stopping Chantal in LV, then I will be disappointed.

Maybe she'll smack Chantal with the TV remote.

Jenn (kornishpyxee)

[opium]

there's been a lot of poor narrative choices made and a lot of weak characterisation.

Weak characterizations I agree with, and I love it. Poor narrative choices? I'll be pondering that for a while, but I wouldn't ponder it at all if I thought they were poor. These are two undisputed (if you are on this forum anyway) masters at work, so I give them the benefit of the doubt. As Terry Doolittle could tell you: "the key is the key." As Dale Cooper could tell you, "break the code, solve the crime." If you do not "enjoy" these pursuits, no harm no foul. Leave it to the professional nerds.

"Masters" are not above reproach. Besides that, I wonder if some of you would look at this the same way if Lynch's name wasn't plastered on it.
If this were some indie director then The Return would probably be considered a colossal exercise in pretension - and this is coming from someone who has enjoyed the bulk of it.

[Deep Thought]

there's been a lot of poor narrative choices made and a lot of weak characterisation.

Weak characterizations I agree with, and I love it. Poor narrative choices? I'll be pondering that for a while, but I wouldn't ponder it at all if I thought they were poor. These are two undisputed (if you are on this forum anyway) masters at work, so I give them the benefit of the doubt. As Terry Doolittle could tell you: "the key is the key." As Dale Cooper could tell you, "break the code, solve the crime." If you do not "enjoy" these pursuits, no harm no foul. Leave it to the professional nerds.

"Masters" are not above reproach. Besides that, I wonder if some of you would look at this the same way if Lynch's name wasn't plastered on it.
If this were some indie director then The Return would probably be considered a colossal exercise in pretension - and this is coming from someone who has enjoyed the bulk of it.

Oh please. Give me a break.

[opium]

Weak characterizations I agree with, and I love it. Poor narrative choices? I'll be pondering that for a while, but I wouldn't ponder it at all if I thought they were poor. These are two undisputed (if you are on this forum anyway) masters at work, so I give them the benefit of the doubt. As Terry Doolittle could tell you: "the key is the key." As Dale Cooper could tell you, "break the code, solve the crime." If you do not "enjoy" these pursuits, no harm no foul. Leave it to the professional nerds.

"Masters" are not above reproach. Besides that, I wonder if some of you would look at this the same way if Lynch's name wasn't plastered on it.
If this were some indie director then The Return would probably be considered a colossal exercise in pretension - and this is coming from someone who has enjoyed the bulk of it.

Oh please. Give me a break.

Why should I?
"Lynchian" is not a pass for bad pacing and writing. It's not a pass for navel-gazing. There are aspects of The Return that are apt Lynch that works well and there are bits that are incredibly weak and fall flat, even if they are conceptually interesting.

[claaa7]

I never understood why that theory was so strong. I know people thought it was strange that Hawk didn't mention it (onscreen anyway) to anyone, but I didn't find it that strange. I've been very critical of some of the narrative choices made in the new series, and you could chalk this down to being of the same ilk, but I never thought that particular oversight was a big deal. After all, he just saw a glimpse of the curtains and could have put it down to his imagination. Or it's possible a lot of people are aware of the curtains being there anyway. Harry saw them in Episode 29 - and saw Cooper's doppleganger and Annie emerge from them, so no doubt Frank and others would have heard about it too. So I didn't find it too peculiar that that scene of Hawk seeing them wasn't followed up on.

what i found strange about that scene was not so much the lack of mentioning of the curtains (which could easily happen off screen) but that Hawk suddenly was out in Glastonberry Grove in the middle of the night, searching for something that was supposed to happen there that night.. and also something that Margaret knew about and had relayed to him ("you're log and I are on the same page tonight...") + that the scene played on the fact that there would be a follow-up scene at Margaret's cabin where Hawk would tell her about his findings. but oh well...

There's been a lot of examples of that this season I think. Things being build up and never paying off - or paying off strangely or in an underwhelming way. The whole Indian heritage mystery turned out to be a coin and bathroom door. The whole Jacoby shovel thing turned out to him only being on an informercial. A lot of bizarre choices. Was the "there's fire where you're going" thing ever followed up on properly either?

yes i agree with you, definitely some strange choices.. though i liked that it made it seem like he and Margaret had a long standing relationship where she would phone him every now and then to tell him some cryptic things and invite him for pie haha. the Log Lady scene in episode 10 doesn't quite add up with the one in 11 though, bc in 11 it seems from her word like she is talking to him for the first time since he found out these things... "The fire where you going" thing is in relation to the black fire i believe, which should be connected to the end of the season.. i thnk that map that Hawk rolled out showed us a lot about where the final episodes are heading (the 'Mother' symbol, the black fire, etc.)

[claaa7]

what i found strange about that scene was not so much the lack of mentioning of the curtains (which could easily happen off screen) but that Hawk suddenly was out in Glastonberry Grove in the middle of the night, searching for something that was supposed to happen there that night.. and also something that Margaret knew about and had relayed to him ("you're log and I are on the same page tonight...") + that the scene played on the fact that there would be a follow-up scene at Margaret's cabin where Hawk would tell her about his findings. but oh well...

There's been a lot of examples of that this season I think. Things being build up and never paying off - or paying off strangely or in an underwhelming way. The whole Indian heritage mystery turned out to be a coin and bathroom door. The whole Jacoby shovel thing turned out to him only being on an informercial. A lot of bizarre choices. Was the "there's fire where you're going" thing ever followed up on properly either?

The slightly odd thing about the Log Lady scenes is that they - to a greater or lesser extent - just seemed to duplicate themselves. Her very first appearance felt very much like a farewell. This episode ramped up the feels but what did it actually add?

i liked that it established the fact that Margaret and Hawk had a special relationship where they would speak to each other over the phone from time to time... i'm super glad that Lynch and Coulson managed to make that happen for themeselves, for us and for the world of Twin Peaks and i'm very glad it was stretched out over several episodes as it was. 5/5

[claaa7]

Have to say: it's so funny seem some of you "celebrating" an (supposedly) return of Cooper....on the 16th episode!!! On a total of 18..

Let's face it. This is going bad. The Big Ed and Norma scene was like they rushed things in. Like "ok, we are obligated to show some old carachters so people don't complain. Just put them togheter in a total of 3 minutes and get over with it". But maybe he forgot that some fans NEVER complain. NEVER. Not even about yet another scene of Dougie eating a cake. "Wow! We are witnessing history". Really?
Some of you guys want this to be true so bad that it doesen't even matter that what we are witnessing, really, is a boy with a rubber glove that gave him superstrenght.
Lynch had all the money in the world to make Jeffries a tea kettle? Really? It's that ok for you? None of the new carcathers was well development (Beverly Paige? Beverly Paige's Husband? All the carachters in the Roadhouse? The list goes on and on).
Well, if some of you guys are enjoiyng it, that's fine. I resapect that. Really. And, hey, the show still have some good moments. Episode 8 was really awesone. But don't try so hard to put everithing Lynch does in the "genius work" category. The guy deserves some critics, after all. A lot of them, actually. This new TP it's in on the top of list, sadly.

the knee jerk effect for many that dislikes the series seem to be to think that their opinions are the correct one and everyone else is trying to hype up something that isn't there.. i was very dissapointed in episode 14 in a train-wreck sort of way, and when I was watching it my mind drifted off enough to think "the guys at Dugpa will fuckng hate this one". i came on here and read pages of "this is the best episode of the series...", etc. now i don't consider my opinion of that to be the correct one, neither theirs. or rather both are correct bc they are just that, opinions. and it's quite obvious that this is a series that speaks to A LOT of people.. especially original Twin Peaks fans. but at the same time, no matter what had happened in this series we would always have a "Profoundly dissapointed" crowd and thank god for that.. art that tries to satisfy everyone never has much lasting value.

there's been some dips in quality in ep. 9, 10, 12, 13 and 14 for me but episode 15 had my mind BLOWN.. in the very same way that episode 3 (season 1), episode 29 (season 2) and episode 8 (season 3) already did before. i damn near forgot to breathe several times and the visual part of the episode was strong.. i'm also a fan of Cooper and his storyline in this season. it's not about "we will have Cooper back, REJOICE" - Cooper's been here since episode one but he's in a lot of trouble so of course i'm excited that he's making progress. and the way that scene was built up, man!!!

for the record, i think most of the people you accuse of being Lynch fanatics can point out a lot of things he did that they dislike.. for example i think that "Dynamic 01" DVD that he released was a pure ebarassement and felt like an obvious cash grab, he has perhaps the worst singing voice of any decent selling artist, etc, etc.

I understand what you are saying, but there 2 things that doesen't fit: 1- There's no Agent Coopr so far. And for sure not a Cooper on Twin Peaks. It's been 15 episodes, so, If the series is about “the core of it is Agent Cooper’s odyssey back to Twin Peaks", well, they a little behid the schedule. 2 - If the series is about “the core of it is Agent Cooper’s odyssey back to Twin Peaks", why fill the episodes with so many new carachters? I thought it is a bit frustraiting seem some carachters with potential (again, Beverly Paige) been so little explored.

Agent Cooper has been in almost every single episode of The Return. Just because he was greatly damaged from living in the Red Room for 25 years and is no longer an active FBI agent doesn't make him any lesser of a character.

exactly.. this is also consistant with the original series in which Hawk tells Cooper that if he faces the dweller on the treshold (his shadow self) with imperfect courage (which he did) it will totally anihilate your soul. i agree with you that the "Dougie" part of s3 has been some of its best parts

[claaa7]

now check this out!!




"...Michael, thats how it is"

[Daliz]

Very good episode again.

Ed & Norma: FINALLY. That was some very good acting from McGill, especially the scene at the RR. Not gonna miss Walter haha

All the Margaret stuff was very emotional especially knowing she was really dying in real life too. Wow.
I think she was warning Hawk about the the "mother" or whatever it is of whose name Hawk does not want to say out loud (the thing in Mr.C's playing card and Hawk's map).

Mr.C at the Convenience store was maybe the best part of The Return so far. Simply beautiful. And very interesting to see the Jumping man.
I wasn't at all bothered that Jeffries was portrayed by this giant teapot, which actually reminds me of the bell thingy at the Fireman's place. But I don't think Jeffries actually is that thing, his spirit might be in there, or this might be some way of communication. Or maybe it's just a stage of evolution

Audrey scenes are just getting more weird every time. It can't be 100% reality, it's so absurd they cannot go outside, but just go on and on about the same things. Audrey is still tired of waiting for the phone to ring and Charlie is still sleepy.

Cooper & the socket scene was great, especially the facial expressions when he heard "Gordon Cole" from the TV. I think's he will either wake up or be transported somewhere through that socket.

[Voided]

The lamps in Dougie's home are reminiscent of atomic bomb mushroom clouds. I meant to mention this before.....I expect someone already has.

[Kilmoore]

I am enjoying the run. The convenience store was a great trip, very much Twin Peaks.

That said, I do agree that some characters have gotten too little screen time to matter. Norma and Ed are floating off what we saw in S1 and S2, and it's workable, but Becky and Steven just don't matter. They're small side characters and thus their bit in E15 was way too long. It was just awkward watching inconsequential, non-interesting characters mutter for so long. I hope the last episodes will focus on relevant things.

[Mulberryspark]

I understand what you are saying, but there 2 things that doesen't fit: 1- There's no Agent Coopr so far. And for sure not a Cooper on Twin Peaks. It's been 15 episodes, so, If the series is about “the core of it is Agent Cooper’s odyssey back to Twin Peaks", well, they a little behid the schedule. 2 - If the series is about “the core of it is Agent Cooper’s odyssey back to Twin Peaks", why fill the episodes with so many new carachters? I thought it is a bit frustraiting seem some carachters with potential (again, Beverly Paige) been so little explored.

Agent Cooper has been in almost every single episode of The Return. Just because he was greatly damaged from living in the Red Room for 25 years and is no longer an active FBI agent doesn't make him any lesser of a character.

Because it's not even close of been the same character. Because it's not even close of been the same character.

Even if Cooper showed up of sound mind, he'd still be somewhat of a different character than the one we were familiar in the original series. He's been trapped for 25 years, as if that's not going to impact him mentally. When he wakes up, I'm pretty sure he won't be upbeat Cooper. I think he will be the most serious we've ever seen him. Him being upbeat wouldn't make any sense considering all that he's been through. I think the only way that Frost & Lynch could get his character into comedic scenes was for them to put him in a situation where he wouldn't be aware of all these bad things that have happened in his life. I think once Cooper wakes up, the comedy aspect of the whole show is going to be diminished a lot and things are going to get darker.