Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

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Jasper
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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Postby Jasper » Tue Aug 22, 2017 6:31 pm

Nighthawk wrote:It doesn't seem like Cooper returning to the FBI is plausible after all the shenanigans that Doppel Coop has pulled.


Just from an identity standpoint, doppelcoop is an imposter, at least in the sense that he has a different finger print and black eyes, and is not even close to being a complete Cooper.

It can also be demonstrated beyond a shadow of a doubt that doppelcoop and DougieCoop were in completely different places at the same time. So, on this particular issue there shouldn't be a problem.

That said, there could be other problems, least of all the fact that he's been gone for a quarter of a century. The case could be made that he reemerged in 1997 under the name Dougie Jones, perhaps with amnesia, or perhaps in deep cover. We, the viewers, know that Dougie wasn't really Cooper, but that doesn't really matter, because he looks just like Cooper, perhaps has Cooper's DNA and fingerprints, and most importantly was eventually replaced by the actual Cooper in what I presume is an essentially untraceable switch. So, it's likely that for all intents and purposes, Cooper was only missing for about seven or eight years before "he" reemerged (as Dougie). Again, it doesn't matter that Dougie wasn't really Cooper.

It's interesting to consider the possibility that the Cooper situation could be looked at as Cooper having had an 18 year (at least) bout of amnesia, rather than real Cooper having replaced a sub-par duplicate. Hell, if Cooper has lodge amnesia, he might even believe this to be the case! This would be interesting with regards to the family, as it might be said that an amnesiac Cooper really was married to Janey-E and really did father Sonny Jim.
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Ratings:

Jonah wrote:Part 15 saw a boost in ratings.
http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/articles/s ... -2017.html


While still not great, these are the best live U.S. ratings since part 9 (which was 0.355). Part 9, of course, benefitted from a huge amount of buzz generated by part 8. Part 9 was the most-watched since parts 1 & 2. So part 15 had the third best night of ratings for The Return.

I think the momentum in part 14 probably played a role. Since there was a lot of exciting material in part 15 (at least according to many assessments), it’s my sincere hope that some ratings momentum carries over into part 16, and then into the finale (which will ideally have ratings close to or even better than those of the first two parts). If there’s a lot of excitement about forward momentum, people are more likely to watch it when it first airs, as opposed to catching up later on.

Here are the updated ratings, in millions, covering live viewership only in the United States, and not including streaming views:

Parts 1 & 2 — 0.506
Parts 3 & 4 — 0.195
Part 5 — 0.254
Part 6 — 0.270
Part 7 — 0.294
Part 8 — 0.246
Part 9 — 0.355
Part 10 — 0.267
Part 11 — 0.219
Part 12 — 0.240
Part 13 — 0.280
Part 14 — 0.253
Part 15 — 0.329
Manwith
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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Postby Manwith » Tue Aug 22, 2017 6:33 pm

ThumbsUp wrote:MIKE/the Black Lodge: Helping Coop, why?


My interpretation is there's a black lodge rule that says a doppelganger can go free and terrorize the world if they trap the real person in the lodge, but then the doppelganger has to go back and switch with the real person after 25 years. Mr. C broke the rule so Mike is trying to restore order and bring him back. Mike is not good but he believes in following the lodge rules.

Now my theory seems to be somewhat contradicted by the Blue Rose backstory, where apparently the woman and her Doppelganger were in this world at the same time. Don't know what was up with that. Maybe the rules were broken back then too.
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ThumbsUp
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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Postby ThumbsUp » Tue Aug 22, 2017 6:52 pm

Mr. Reindeer wrote:Wonder why Mark chose this particular moment for his cameo. I'd given up hopes of seeing ole Cyril when they didn't use him for the Las Vegas newscast.


Not sure if this would answer your question, but someone over at Reddit wrote a fantastic post about the Stephen/Gersten/Cyril scene and how it parallels to Mulholland Dr.

https://www.reddit.com/r/twinpeaks/comments/6vb9xe/s3e15_mulholland_dr_gerstens_key_necklace/?st=j6ock6z0&sh=de831237

There seems to be a recurring theme of people walking dogs being truth-finders, or figures who spur some sort of meaningful action. I guess that'd fit with Cyril's former journalist status.
Esselgee
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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Postby Esselgee » Tue Aug 22, 2017 6:56 pm

So was there any point to the whole Cooper's Great Northern key story? It seems that it's not going to be relevant in helping the FBI or the sheriff's department with anything. Will there be any pay off? Hopefully Harry gets it (on screen?) and that triggers something.
F*U*Tammy
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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Postby F*U*Tammy » Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:01 pm

Just rewatched the episode, and I'm pretty sure Becky killed herself. Steven feels responsible, and Gersten keeps telling him Becky did it. Gersten probably runs away when the guy shows up because she doesn't want anyone to think she was involved in Becky's death.

Total conjecture, but it feels right. I can see them mirroring the euphoric shot of Becky in the convertible with a gruesome shot of her death.

On the other hand, maybe Becky threatened Steven, he tried to take the gun from her, and somehow it went off and she died. This is such an overused scenario that I really, really hope they didn't go this route, but it's definitely a possibility.

Either way, Becky is a goner as far as I'm concerned.
dronerstone
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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Postby dronerstone » Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:10 pm

Jasper wrote:
That said, there could be other problems,


Evil Coop: Android Smartphone

Good Coop: trapped in the Lodge for 25 years, doesn't even know what a touchscreen is.
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ScarFace32
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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Postby ScarFace32 » Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:11 pm

nonemoreblack wrote:Someone created a side-by-side comparison of Dougie crawling towards the outlet and Ruby crawling at the Roadhouse. Not sure if it's something to be looked into, but I thought it was cool.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZJ__doruW4


The way he crawls reminded me of how Bob crawls in the Palmer's living room
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Deep Thought
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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Postby Deep Thought » Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:28 pm

Has this been brought up here? Just saw this while wading through reddit:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutchman_(repair)

In construction and woodworking, a dutchman can refer to an inset wood patch used to repair wood.[1] Typically a square inset is cut into the damaged area and a new piece of wood is glued into the inset.

Seems likely DL, at least, is familiar with this usage.

If so, it is quite poetic.
There's your roast beef and cheese.
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firefly2193
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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Postby firefly2193 » Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:06 pm

vicksvapor77 wrote:
thedougpa wrote:
Posters who read ill intentions into James and Renee at the Roadhouse are just way off the mark IMO. He seems to have a grade school like crush on Renee and isn't inherently trying to "make a move" but is simply more comfortable admiring her from afar (like in part 2, where Hannah says he's "staring at [her] again"). When James finally feels comfortable enough to go up and talk to Renee in part 15, he's just trying to be nice and say hi. This is in complete contrast to James of the first series, who had women flocking to him and was a borderline womanizer, and I think the shift is 100% intentional on Lynch and James Marshall's part.


The dude found out his mate had super strength that could hospitalise someone, entered the roadhouse with him, went immediately over to the table where Renee was sitting with her husband and friends, talked to her, her husband revealed that there'd already been history between them and James had been warned, warned him again, James baited him more until the husband came for him, then relied on Green Glove-man to put them in hospital.

From the information given to us in this scene (ie barring any later context), James is not a good dude here. With great power comes great responsibility.
He has only ever gone for women who already had partners :lol:
Hester Prynne
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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Postby Hester Prynne » Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:20 pm

Jasper wrote:
My guess is that if Cooper travels back to the unearthly realms, it won't be bodily. I'm guessing that his physical body stays in Vegas, but it's just a wild guess. He doesn't have to disappear to travel to the otherworldly realms of lodges and convenience stores and grimy motels. He could do so while unconscious, in a coma or what have you.

It seems like too many plot lines are converging in Vegas for Cooper to simply disappear, but it could happen, and it could work.
.


I've been thinking a lot about the first idea of his subconscious traveling to the White Lodge while he is in a hospital bed after electrocuting himself. I'm starting to wonder if the "What is your name" title is going to come from a doctor, and Coop has to make a choice - live out the rest of his life that is ready made as Dougie Jones or return to the world as Dale Cooper and repair what he can with what's left of it. The trailer shot of him driving in the car goes against this idea, but it could take place after he makes this decision or it could just be Evil Coop posing as Good Coop.
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JohnPalSki
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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Postby JohnPalSki » Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:30 pm

KyleRickards wrote:
Rhiannon wrote:I am fascinated with the Woodsmen characters the Black Lodge, any thoughts why there faces are black, could it be from the "scorched engine oil"?


That's a great theory! So when Laura and Ronette freak at the smell, does that indicate they've at least encountered Woodsmen?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I am completely fascinated by the Woodsmen too. I was definitely thinking scorched engine oil (or whatever it is that sits in the pool at Glastonbury), but, and I can't seem to find it now, people brought up the story of Woodsmen dying in a fire (?TSHOTP?)...
if someone could point me toward that it would be appreciated..
They seem to serve as watchers/spies/observers... I thought maybe they were the dugpas but maybe not...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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"Don't expect a turkey dog here."
1derpalm
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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Postby 1derpalm » Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:36 pm

Jasper wrote:
Voltaire wrote:
SpookyDollhouse wrote:
He looked de-aged. His expression, everything. It's like he came back in that moment but we're not gonna know till next episode! Or the finale...


Another cock tease of getting Cooper back. No matter how I try not to be disappointed with these teases...they have gotten me every time.


How was it a "cock tease". The last we saw of him he looked like Dale Cooper. He didn't go back to acting like "Dougie". Instead he almost certainly either died or jolted himself all the way back to Cooper by doing something like getting the rest of his memory/wits via electricity. So while it's not guaranteed, I think it's likely we'll see Cooper acting like Cooper in the psychic/spiritual world like we did in the first three parts, or Cooper will wake up in the hospital in Las Vegas as Dale Cooper. I think it's relatively unlikely that we'll see Cooper acting like Dougie-Coop again.

Poor Janey-E and Sonny Jim. I hope their story doesn't end in pure tragedy.

I agree with the tease theory. Mike probably beckoned him over to the socket and they didn't show it. Chances are it was to blow the lights out thus the killers didn't know they were thee or something. Helping Doug indirectly. And Bad Cooper is as of yet the real cooper. He's his dark side.
1derpalm
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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Postby 1derpalm » Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:36 pm

Jasper wrote:
Voltaire wrote:
SpookyDollhouse wrote:
He looked de-aged. His expression, everything. It's like he came back in that moment but we're not gonna know till next episode! Or the finale...


Another cock tease of getting Cooper back. No matter how I try not to be disappointed with these teases...they have gotten me every time.


How was it a "cock tease". The last we saw of him he looked like Dale Cooper. He didn't go back to acting like "Dougie". Instead he almost certainly either died or jolted himself all the way back to Cooper by doing something like getting the rest of his memory/wits via electricity. So while it's not guaranteed, I think it's likely we'll see Cooper acting like Cooper in the psychic/spiritual world like we did in the first three parts, or Cooper will wake up in the hospital in Las Vegas as Dale Cooper. I think it's relatively unlikely that we'll see Cooper acting like Dougie-Coop again.

Poor Janey-E and Sonny Jim. I hope their story doesn't end in pure tragedy.

I agree with the tease theory. Mike probably beckoned him over to the socket and they didn't show it. Chances are it was to blow the lights out thus the killers didn't know they were thee or something. Helping Doug indirectly. And Bad Cooper is as of yet the real cooper. He's his dark side.
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frompureair
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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Postby frompureair » Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:38 pm

Nadine said Jacoby was the only one around actually "telling it like it is." Wonder if that means anything...
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ThumbsUp
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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Postby ThumbsUp » Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:43 pm

JohnPalSki wrote:
KyleRickards wrote:
Rhiannon wrote:I am fascinated with the Woodsmen characters the Black Lodge, any thoughts why there faces are black, could it be from the "scorched engine oil"?


That's a great theory! So when Laura and Ronette freak at the smell, does that indicate they've at least encountered Woodsmen?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I am completely fascinated by the Woodsmen too. I was definitely thinking scorched engine oil (or whatever it is that sits in the pool at Glastonbury), but, and I can't seem to find it now, people brought up the story of Woodsmen dying in a fire (?TSHOTP?)...
if someone could point me toward that it would be appreciated..
They seem to serve as watchers/spies/observers... I thought maybe they were the dugpas but maybe not...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I find the Woodsmen Bob-level scary.

Perhaps there is a connection between them and owls? Owls in the town of Twin Peaks seemed to me to be scouts or spies for the Lodge.

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