Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Postby Jasper » Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:40 pm

firefly2193 wrote:
vicksvapor77 wrote:
thedougpa wrote:
Posters who read ill intentions into James and Renee at the Roadhouse are just way off the mark IMO. He seems to have a grade school like crush on Renee and isn't inherently trying to "make a move" but is simply more comfortable admiring her from afar (like in part 2, where Hannah says he's "staring at [her] again"). When James finally feels comfortable enough to go up and talk to Renee in part 15, he's just trying to be nice and say hi. This is in complete contrast to James of the first series, who had women flocking to him and was a borderline womanizer, and I think the shift is 100% intentional on Lynch and James Marshall's part.


The dude found out his mate had super strength that could hospitalise someone, entered the roadhouse with him, went immediately over to the table where Renee was sitting with her husband and friends, talked to her, her husband revealed that there'd already been history between them and James had been warned, warned him again, James baited him more until the husband came for him, then relied on Green Glove-man to put them in hospital.

From the information given to us in this scene (ie barring any later context), James is not a good dude here. With great power comes great responsibility.
He has only ever gone for women who already had partners :lol:


But as has been suggested, it could be that when James went to check the furnace, he received some kind of message telling him that he had to get arrested with Green Glove, so that they'd be in the jail with Naido, the drunk (Billy?), and Chad, the man we love to hate. Obviously something really weird is going on in there.
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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Postby sycamore » Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:14 pm

ThumbsUp wrote:
JohnPalSki wrote:
KyleRickards wrote:
That's a great theory! So when Laura and Ronette freak at the smell, does that indicate they've at least encountered Woodsmen?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I am completely fascinated by the Woodsmen too. I was definitely thinking scorched engine oil (or whatever it is that sits in the pool at Glastonbury), but, and I can't seem to find it now, people brought up the story of Woodsmen dying in a fire (?TSHOTP?)...
if someone could point me toward that it would be appreciated..
They seem to serve as watchers/spies/observers... I thought maybe they were the dugpas but maybe not...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I find the Woodsmen Bob-level scary.

Perhaps there is a connection between them and owls? Owls in the town of Twin Peaks seemed to me to be scouts or spies for the Lodge.



Here's the page from TSHOTP. Two notes: Feb 24 is also the day Laura Palmer was killed. Many have counted a total of eight different woodsmen in S3 TP:TR. However, there were only six woodsmen surrounding Mr C after he was shot. Only six actors have been named as woodsmen (see the uncredited performances in the cast list in my signature). I have read of someone doing a study of the flickering woodsmen around the convenience store in part 8, but would still like to see someone post eight separate images of each woodsman.
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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Postby speedbeatz » Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:50 pm

Question: now that we've been shown pieces of it, is it safe to assume the entire Jeffries scene from the Missing Pieces is relevant/"canon" to the series?
If so, shouldn't we be taking "at Judy's, in Seattle" into account when speculating about who Judy might be?
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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Postby Leacock » Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:59 pm

bosguy1981 wrote:I loved this episode! A couple notes about the Gersten/Steven and Audrey/Charlie scenes in part 15:

When Steven is rambling to Gersten, when he says "I'm a high school graduate" twice, that seems to be when Gersten gets a somewhat terrified look in her eyes. Could mean anything but it had me wondering... were Steven and Becky high-school sweethearts? If so, this could add fuel to the idea that he shot and killed Becky and therefore "graduated high school." I dunno, the way Gersten trembled and the look on her face when he spoke that particular line was worrisome.

Also, Audrey and Charlie... not to minimize what could turn out to be a very interesting scenario, but I can't shake the feeling that so much of the dialogue was inspired by Lynch's (and maybe Frost's) anger at Sherilyn Fenn for her awful Twitter antics during pre-production and filming. (I don't want to re-hash all the anti-Sherilyn stuff but some of it seemed so obvious to me during Part 15, I can't help but bring it up and see if anybody else caught this drift). Audrey's first line in the Return is that she's sick and tired of waiting by the phone. Remember all those angry tweets from Sherilyn throughout early production about how nobody had contacted her (or the "other women" in the cast) and signed them yet? Eh, maybe just a coincidence. But in Part 15, there was that whole bit where she's yelling at Charlie, something like, "Why can't you just do something for somebody else, to make somebody else happy? You're always whining, it's like dealing with a sick dog!"

It's not only that these lines reminded me of something Lynch himself may have been thinking/saying to Sherilyn, but also the placement of this particular scene in Part 15. It comes right after a series of very tender and sweet and terribly sad scenes showing the death of the Log Lady. And after handling that material so sensitively, BAM, we're back in Charlie's house and Audrey is pissing and moaning at him again. Now the editing has sometimes been unusual in several Parts but I can't shake the feeling it wasn't a complete accident. Bear in mind that during production, as Lynch was watching a dear old friend die before him, (and on camera because she felt so strongly about being included!), during that very period of time, Sherilyn was publicly going on and on about her situation with getting signed on, not getting what she wanted, and whatever else (scene count, salary, who even knows!).

Again, I don't want this to devolve into Sherilyn-bashing or reliving the pre-production/production drama around it, but I just can't help but feel like all of those real-life elements conspired in Audrey's story (or at least some of the dialogue she's been given). Am I alone in this? I know there had been people talking about the meta elements in Audrey's story this time but I guess Part 15 was when I really went, "Woah!"


Would anyone mind rehashing what exactly Fenn's awful Twitter antics were?

I'll admit I don't always follow Twitter that closely but all I really recall is her going to bat hard for the idea of a new season against Showtime, publishing a kid's book, some spiritual stuff, and maybe some slightly catty comments about the actress who played Donna. But it sounds like more interesting things happened?
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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Postby Cooperscoffeecup » Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:47 pm

ScarFace32 wrote:
nonemoreblack wrote:Someone created a side-by-side comparison of Dougie crawling towards the outlet and Ruby crawling at the Roadhouse. Not sure if it's something to be looked into, but I thought it was cool.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZJ__doruW4


The way he crawls reminded me of how Bob crawls in the Palmer's living room


I think there is a filming error in this scene with Dougie and Janey E. In the front on Dougie scenes, Janey E is not in the background. She should be standing beside the white door. Around the 2.30 mark on this video, towards the end of the scene just before Dougie is putting the fork in the socket, Janey is not standing near the kitchen dining table, which is behind the other table that Dougie was sitting at. Over Dougie's shoulder is where Janey E should be standing when she screams. She turns around and can see Dougie at the socket. The scene flashes back and forth between Janey E and Dougie and in Dougie's front on shots she is not there at all. Even when he collapses and you have full view of the area Janey E isnt there. Another error?? Looks like the scenes were filmed separately and edited together.
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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Postby madeleineferguson » Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:59 pm

After Part 15, I have an unsettled feeling. Something's not right. I'm starting to believe there really is going to be another season.

What if back in April of 2015, when Lynch walked away from Twin Peaks... what if the argument with Showtime wasn't about 9 episodes or 18 episodes, but one season or two guaranteed seasons?

There are a lot of stories being told this season, but to me, much of it feels like a prologue. Like it's all leading up to something even bigger, that hasn't even begun yet. And with only 3 hours left, it's feeling more and more likely that there isn't enough time left to finish telling all of the stories they have set in motion.
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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Postby qbin2001 » Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:28 am

Ken Anderson discovered that in the Jumping Man/Sarah short scene there is a hidden message. He slowed down this scene several times.

Original link to the tweet https://twitter.com/Kenn_Andersen/status/900143585344888832

And here's clean version I extracted: https://soundcloud.com/qbin2001/jumping-man

And maskelibalon on YouTube slowed down it also:

Last edited by qbin2001 on Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Postby Cooperscoffeecup » Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:29 am

madeleineferguson wrote:After Part 15, I have an unsettled feeling. Something's not right. I'm starting to believe there really is going to be another season.

What if back in April of 2015, when Lynch walked away from Twin Peaks... what if the argument with Showtime wasn't about 9 episodes or 18 episodes, but one season or two guaranteed seasons?

There are a lot of stories being told this season, but to me, much of it feels like a prologue. Like it's all leading up to something even bigger, that hasn't even begun yet. And with only 3 hours left, it's feeling more and more likely that there isn't enough time left to finish telling all of the stories they have set in motion.


I would be very surprised if there wasn't another season. But not for what we see remaining in storylines. Everyone seems so supportive of another series and enjoyed their time doing it. When another season was mentioned on Twitter a while back, along the lines of "maybe another series is is order", Debbie Zoller replied "Not a day goes by the entire cast and crew hopes for that to ring true!" Sorry I screen shot it, but dont know how to upoad it here. Sherilyn Fenn (love her or hate her) has also recently reactivated the cast based Facebook page that was used during the time when they were campaigning for the series. I think there were other crew involved in the page, but I cant remember who now.
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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Postby sneakydave » Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:24 am

nonemoreblack wrote:Someone created a side-by-side comparison of Dougie crawling towards the outlet and Ruby crawling at the Roadhouse. Not sure if it's something to be looked into, but I thought it was cool.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZJ__doruW4


I'm not really a fan of these videos. All someone has to do is line up a specific section from a similar scene that suits your argument and work backwards from there for a minute or two so when it DOES reach the end, people say 'wow'.

You could likely find a crawling scene from any other film or TV show and line it up and it would look like there was a correlation.
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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Postby Jasper » Wed Aug 23, 2017 2:10 am

sneakydave wrote:
nonemoreblack wrote:Someone created a side-by-side comparison of Dougie crawling towards the outlet and Ruby crawling at the Roadhouse. Not sure if it's something to be looked into, but I thought it was cool.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZJ__doruW4


I'm not really a fan of these videos. All someone has to do is line up a specific section from a similar scene that suits your argument and work backwards from there for a minute or two so when it DOES reach the end, people say 'wow'.

You could likely find a crawling scene from any other film or TV show and line it up and it would look like there was a correlation.


Generally speaking, I very much agree with you, but there are things here other than the crawling, including the scream and the flashing lights, which are pretty major things to happen in the same episode, lining up with what appears to be a pivotal event which we've all been anticipating. (Cooper regaining is identity or at least beginning that process in earnest.)

Earlier on in this comparison, Cooper finally gets the TV on and begins staring forward at the same time Ruby is placed on the floor and begins staring forward. Ruby begins her crawl just as Cooper is shocked by hearing the name "Gordon Cole".

There is precedent for people in the Roadhouse feeling something going on at the same time elsewhere (Maddy's murder).

It goes like this:

1. Cooper sits alone quietly at a table. Ruby sits alone quietly at a table.
2. Cooper first pushes the remote buttons. Ruby first appears.
3. Cooper then pushes the buttons successfully and turns on the television. Ruby is placed on the floor.
4. Cooper begins to stare forward (at the television). Ruby begins to stare forward at the band/crowd.
5. Cooper is shocked to hear the name "Gordon Cole". Ruby spontaneously begins to crawl.
6. Cooper begins to crawl. Now Ruby and Cooper are both crawling towards the viewer.
7. Cooper stops crawling and looks at the fork. Ruby stops crawling about the same time.
8. Cooper sticks the fork in the socket, lights flash and Janey-E lets out a bloodcurdling scream. Lights flash in Ruby's face and she lets out a bloodcurdling scream.

As someone else mentioned, Cooper is trying to get home to himself and apparently to Twin Peaks. Lynch loves The Wizard of Oz and has used it in his work in the past. In that film, ruby slippers take Dorothy home, out of her dream reality. Cooper even lost his shoes at the same time he lost his memories and identity.

As you can see, I really like this idea. If it's a coincidence, I'll take it! Great coincidence!

As an aside, it seems like Audrey could be waking up or otherwise coming to her senses in the same episode, though we'll have to wait and see the real meaning of her violent attack on Charlie.
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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Postby Jasper » Wed Aug 23, 2017 2:24 am

speedbeatz wrote:Question: now that we've been shown pieces of it, is it safe to assume the entire Jeffries scene from the Missing Pieces is relevant/"canon" to the series?
If so, shouldn't we be taking "at Judy's, in Seattle" into account when speculating about who Judy might be?


Absolutely. I've kept it in mind. Lynch even went with the 1989 date from The Missing Pieces!

Judy's could have been the actual house or apartment of a young lady (in the words of the Buenos Aires desk clerk), or it could be some kind of otherworldly portal or place. It appears to be where Jeffries found the ring and was whisked away to above-the-convenience-store, and wherever else he went.
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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Postby wxray » Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:01 am

qbin2001 wrote:Ken Anderson discovered that in the Jumping Man/Sarah short scene there is a hidden message. He slowed down this scene several times.

Original link to the tweet https://twitter.com/Kenn_Andersen/status/900143585344888832

And here's clean version I extracted: https://soundcloud.com/qbin2001/jumping-man

And maskelibalon on YouTube slowed down it also:


Still seems like gibberish.

Lynch just should have gone all Kubrick here and played Backwards Chanting Priests. Maybe to follow the theme, instead of backwards Latin, how about a little backwards Navaho?

I generally love the sound design, but this sped forward little snippet just seems like a lazy hack.
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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Postby DeepBlueSeed » Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:02 am

Jasper wrote:
firefly2193 wrote:
vicksvapor77 wrote:


The dude found out his mate had super strength that could hospitalise someone, entered the roadhouse with him, went immediately over to the table where Renee was sitting with her husband and friends, talked to her, her husband revealed that there'd already been history between them and James had been warned, warned him again, James baited him more until the husband came for him, then relied on Green Glove-man to put them in hospital.

From the information given to us in this scene (ie barring any later context), James is not a good dude here. With great power comes great responsibility.
He has only ever gone for women who already had partners :lol:


But as has been suggested, it could be that when James went to check the furnace, he received some kind of message telling him that he had to get arrested with Green Glove, so that they'd be in the jail with Naido, the drunk (Billy?), and Chad, the man we love to hate. Obviously something really weird is going on in there.


I get the impression that the new James is 'slower' than the old James. He seems more 'normal' around Freddie at work, but I imagine that that's because he's relaxed, and that at the Roadhouse he's in a more awkward social situation. I don't think he's maliciously antagonising someone, I think it's just echoes of his old personality through the lens of his new way of dealing with the world.

In many ways I think that James's 'slowness' is comparable with Andy's simpleness. And maybe that's how he is also a useful tool to the Fireman, who picks simple and uncomplicated souls, and moves those 'pawns' to where they need to be.

Potentially this is also the case with DougieCoop. Although MIKE is pretty much guiding Coop the Fireman gave Cooper guidance first (if the scene belongs at the beginning of the season).
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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Postby Nighthawk » Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:43 am

DeepBlueSeed wrote:I get the impression that the new James is 'slower' than the old James. He seems more 'normal' around Freddie at work, but I imagine that that's because he's relaxed, and that at the Roadhouse he's in a more awkward social situation. I don't think he's maliciously antagonising someone, I think it's just echoes of his old personality through the lens of his new way of dealing with the world.

In many ways I think that James's 'slowness' is comparable with Andy's simpleness. And maybe that's how he is also a useful tool to the Fireman, who picks simple and uncomplicated souls, and moves those 'pawns' to where they need to be.

Potentially this is also the case with DougieCoop. Although MIKE is pretty much guiding Coop the Fireman gave Cooper guidance first (if the scene belongs at the beginning of the season).


Ok, let me propose one of those crazy hypotheses that never pan out... :lol:

Could Freddie be a figment of James' imagination and its really James who beat up those two guys at the Roadhouse in a fit of rage? That would mean we have seen the Roadhouse and then the sheriff station scenes through James' distorted worldview. I believe Hawk told Bobby to put Freddie in cell 8 while we can see James locked in cell 7. Perhaps cell 7 is empty in reality and James is the one in cell 8?
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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Postby DeepBlueSeed » Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:13 am

Nighthawk wrote:
DeepBlueSeed wrote:I get the impression that the new James is 'slower' than the old James. He seems more 'normal' around Freddie at work, but I imagine that that's because he's relaxed, and that at the Roadhouse he's in a more awkward social situation. I don't think he's maliciously antagonising someone, I think it's just echoes of his old personality through the lens of his new way of dealing with the world.

In many ways I think that James's 'slowness' is comparable with Andy's simpleness. And maybe that's how he is also a useful tool to the Fireman, who picks simple and uncomplicated souls, and moves those 'pawns' to where they need to be.

Potentially this is also the case with DougieCoop. Although MIKE is pretty much guiding Coop the Fireman gave Cooper guidance first (if the scene belongs at the beginning of the season).


Ok, let me propose one of those crazy hypotheses that never pan out... :lol:

Could Freddie be a figment of James' imagination and its really James who beat up those two guys at the Roadhouse in a fit of rage? That would mean we have seen the Roadhouse and then the sheriff station scenes through James' distorted worldview. I believe Hawk told Bobby to put Freddie in cell 8 while we can see James locked in cell 7. Perhaps cell 7 is empty in reality and James is the one in cell 8?


To be fair, the first time he is noticed Shelly also observes "James has always been cool..." That would be typical of someone seeing the world filtered through their own imagination.

In fact you could go one further, by suggesting that moment when he's on stage at the Roadhouse was also in his imagination, receiving adoring looks from Renee.
Last edited by DeepBlueSeed on Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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