Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

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Framed_Angel
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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Postby Framed_Angel » Wed Aug 23, 2017 10:32 pm

Daliz wrote:All the Margaret stuff ...I think she was warning Hawk about the the "mother" or whatever it is of whose name Hawk does not want to say out loud (the thing in Mr.C's playing card and Hawk's map).
On re-watch, I had a different impression than her warning Hawk necessarily. Margaret does not say "watch out for" but "Watch for the one" under the moon on Pine Mtn or wherever. And, it was her use of the term "the One" that made me think of her earlier reference to Laura (... is the One) as she addressed Hawk. So I can only offer that as an alternate possiblity: maybe Hawk will have a role in getting Laura's situation restored somehow, and Log Lady foresaw that.

I have to say I agreed with whoever felt a lot of Part 15's components felt slap-dash, like Norma & Ed's reuniting scene "just to get that out of the way" or whatnot; and other times I felt were as much bizarre as empty of empathy for characters like Gersten and Steven.
On re-watch though, that scene of Gersten w/ Steven resonated more. I find this often upon re-watching; this is not just noticing subtle details second-time-around either. I actually experience the show differently on an emotional level without the burden of suspense. Others have mentioned this; but I'll cite it for the purpose of my own self-amazement i can't quite explain, how much more moving I found the couple's breakdown in composure (Gersten) and demonstrative capitulating to the effects of drug use (Steven). As the scene concluded with her gazing up at the trees, maybe seeing something there, or giving way to shock as her expression kind of tempered, it lent a more relatable quality for me.

And Frost appearing before, during & after that scene he walked so goofily in his stride, what a ham. Incongruous with the content and gravity of the scene itself which I figure was on purpose.

I'm looking over the photo finally of that woodsman others were wondering if his mouth bled from a wound similar to the jail cell parroting-dude's. But I only see a dab of blood at his lower lip/chin and then some fresh bloodstain on the front of his shirt. Nothing in between, the way a bleeding wound would dribble. As woodsmen have been demonstrated surrounding EvilCoop/ Part 8 and helping themselves it seemed to contents from his wound and smearing on their faces, this seems more likely to me what would constitute Part 15's silent woodsman's bloody lip -- not his own wound. Something he was feeding on or smearing. I just don't see a wound there. I liked how he pulled a lever similar to Naido and/ or the Man in the Planet in Eraserhead -- but it was so fast I'm not exactly sure that's what I saw him do~?
"Fool me once... shame on me!"
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docLEXfisti
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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Postby docLEXfisti » Thu Aug 24, 2017 12:03 am

Something else I must say, I never thought I'd like Chad so much, he and the faces he makes are hilarious, he could be a new Bud Spencer from the looks ;)
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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Postby douglasb » Thu Aug 24, 2017 12:16 am

Chad's arrest was very perfunctory. There had been one (?) mention of the town's drug problem and no on-screen discussion of the hit-and-run as far as I can remember. Again, all we needed was one scene of Frank and Hawk discussing mundane police procedures and we'd have some context for Chad's arrest.
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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Postby Cooperscoffeecup » Thu Aug 24, 2017 12:37 am

douglasb wrote:Chad's arrest was very perfunctory. There had been one (?) mention of the town's drug problem and no on-screen discussion of the hit-and-run as far as I can remember. Again, all we needed was one scene of Frank and Hawk discussing mundane police procedures and we'd have some context for Chad's arrest.


It's a funny place that police station. I think Truman discussed the hit and run in the discussion with Ben, as Ben asked how the parent were, at the time the key was handed over.

And yet James sits in a police cell, just after a scuffle at the roadhouse, and I am not sure what he did wrong. :?

It would be very funny if someone bought in a pine cone for Chad .... :lol:
whoisalhedges
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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Postby whoisalhedges » Thu Aug 24, 2017 1:17 am

Framed_Angel wrote:
thedarktrees wrote:
somevelvetmorning wrote:So we have a woodsman that looks like he has recently been bleeding from his mouth and then we have this weird guy in the jail cell.Just a coincidence?
Not sure I see the similarty -- but more than that, I really don't see WHY we would or should want to see a similarity. Not to take away from any of the discussions that people want to have about the show, or to say that it needs to be viewed in any particular way, but I really, really don't understand that massive rush of interpretation that tries to find parallels and equivalences between different scenes -- and then try to assume that that has cracked some code that the viewer is supposed to solve. ..Asking this honestly -- why exactly should we be so desperately hunting for parallels like this?
I do agree at times, such speculation seems to be "reaching," yes? I was thinking today about the scene in an earlier Part [?], when Andy and Lucy and Hawk are in a prolonged back & forth about the chocolate bunnies. And when Hawk himself repeats Lucy's or Andy's "... Is it about the bunnies?" how it felt to me like such a break from character for him. It kind of let me down. But then of course some Parts later when the note about Jack Rabbit Palace is discovered-- some folks here wondered "Ohhhh, so it IS 'about the bunnies'!"

And yeah, I can see where it gets a little out of control at those moments, the parallel-note-taking. I figure on reading past what I can't use and considering what I can. There's so many things to unpack in any episode. No two people will unpack the same way. So few Parts remain for even a fraction of pieces to get puzzled together in the time that's left, I almost have puzzle-fatigue! Use a mental filter to keep the less-necessary at bay. I've quoted just one of several items that didn't engage me for drawing a parallel but I've encountered countless others that felt rewarding to re-examine for the sake of finding a different interpretation and even a previously undetected parallel.

I understand the sentiment. Sometimes I read some speculation that strikes me as just - well, stupid (*more on Reddit, not so much here*). But here's the thing:

To me, it is abundantly clear that something is going on with timelines/realities bleeding into/bumping against each other. No idea exactly what or how; but not everything that's "real" in one scene is necessarily real in another scene. Don't know what's up - I'm sure it's nothing quite so prosaic as a Star Trek "alternate universe" plot, but I'm really at a loss.

Meanwhile...

There are those who think that TPTR is so *obviously* all on the same, coherent chronology; and anyone who thinks otherwise must be on sparkle.

Often I find myself criticizing (in my own mind if not publicly) posts that dig deep into tiny details, thinking the most arcane trivialities are crucial to understanding thing - because that's never been Lynch's style. But DKL didn't write this alone. It's important to remember that, and maybe some of these things do reward inspection....

In any case, Lynch, Frost, and most of us here have an appreciation of mystery. Wonder. Either we just let it all wash over us, and *then* get lost in the wonder, or we are wondering now. Speculating. And if we are speculating... well, maybe before we can dig ourselves out of the shit, we have to be buried in shit? :lol:
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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Postby TPDpz » Thu Aug 24, 2017 2:32 am

whoisalhedges wrote:To me, it is abundantly clear that something is going on with timelines/realities bleeding into/bumping against each other. No idea exactly what or how; but not everything that's "real" in one scene is necessarily real in another scene. Don't know what's up - I'm sure it's nothing quite so prosaic as a Star Trek "alternate universe" plot, but I'm really at a loss.


There are theories and explanations for those as well. I can point the road to Carl Jung & Alan Watts for example if you are interested in finding out. Those who are ready will receive, for understanding must come from within to really grasp it and it is a good insurance that fire is not applied selfishly. :wink:
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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Postby writersblock » Thu Aug 24, 2017 3:58 am

Another owl wrote:
Ashok wrote:
Another owl wrote:Have to say: it's so funny seem some of you "celebrating" an (supposedly) return of Cooper....on the 16th episode!!! On a total of 18.. :roll:

Let's face it. This is going bad.


What makes The Return's stories "greater" or "lesser" than the Laura Palmer murder case? Nothing. Maybe the Dougie Jones subplot is one of my favorite stories from this universe.


I could swear you've been ironic, but I respect if you don't. For real. BuT, for me, seeing someone eating cakes and pies, put a tie on his head and bumping his head on doors it'sjust not as good as finding out Laura Palmer misteries. In fact, the Laura carachter's development was really special on the original series, but I have to confess that I like the Lodge Mithology even more.


There's been so much more to the Dougie Jones story than that!!!!
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Nikki Grace
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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Postby Nikki Grace » Thu Aug 24, 2017 4:08 am

I felt like I was walking on air after Ed and Norma's scene. And then I was broken down in tears with Margaret's goodbye. What a rollercoaster. I am so grateful for this beautiful, beautiful show.
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Nikki Grace
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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Postby Nikki Grace » Thu Aug 24, 2017 4:10 am

FredMadison wrote:I don’t know what I’m reaching for here. Just some thoughts. Triggered by this episode in particular.

What if the message of “the return” is simply: with all good removed from Cooper, we have “Evil Cooper” and conversely, with all evil removed from Cooper, we have “Dougie”. Both characters seem childlike in their ways. Unbalanced and insecure, certainly. Lost. What if the dreamer is Cooper (the balanced version of him) in the sense that he sees himself separated this way. A forced self-examination of sorts? Maybe this is a bit too obvious of an answer?

There are so many storylines and character arcs that seem parallel — storylines that all involve “twins” of sorts. Repetition. Brief glitches that reveal this. Storylines described as unlikable family connections. Uncles, sisters, brothers. People seemingly dreaming up realities or living in nightmares.

Within this “split view” of himself, perhaps the other characters in Cooper’s dream are therefore also split into crude caricatures. Naive or evil. The ones who seem to have their shit more together are certain law enforcement people. Is that simply because they’re impartial or somehow stronger or perhaps more morally driven? We also see splits and cracks in these characters of course.

Is “the return” simply about the "true character" of Cooper coming together?


This is absolutely my interpretation.
vicksvapor77
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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Postby vicksvapor77 » Thu Aug 24, 2017 5:37 am

douglasb wrote:Chad's arrest was very perfunctory. There had been one (?) mention of the town's drug problem and no on-screen discussion of the hit-and-run as far as I can remember. Again, all we needed was one scene of Frank and Hawk discussing mundane police procedures and we'd have some context for Chad's arrest.


I agree with that. The least they could've done is indicate that Lucy *was* on to him when she was spying on him checking the mail and that she helped solve the Miriam puzzle which led to Chad's subsequent arrest. I'm pretty sure we're meant to connect those dots and assume Lucy was part of the inner circle ("We've been on to you for months") but even just for the Lucy character, who's had very little to do in terms of driving the main plot so far, that would have been a nice win.
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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Thu Aug 24, 2017 5:43 am

There are definitely some subplots that feel oddly rushed and underdeveloped, considering that this thing was scripted and shot as one long production AND outsized to twice the initial planned length. Plot has always been a bit perfunctory to DKL, but with certain subplots here, it feels almost like a frustrating obligation, like a kid being forced to reluctantly say his prayers. This might be the downside of the L/F collaboration. Unlike last time, DKL seems to be struggling to honor and include Mark's contributions almost religiously, even when his heart really isn't in it as director.
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zeronumber
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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Postby zeronumber » Thu Aug 24, 2017 6:00 am

Episode 10: Carl Serenades, and coffee cup breaks window.

Epsiode 11: Becky gets her gun. (Window not broken?)

Episode 13: Becky calls Shelly. (Window not broken?)

Episode 15 : Cyril informs Carl.
(Window broken. Mended with cardboard.)

"...is it future? ...or is it past?"

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Meaxylon
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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Postby Meaxylon » Thu Aug 24, 2017 6:05 am

vicksvapor77 wrote:
douglasb wrote:Chad's arrest was very perfunctory. There had been one (?) mention of the town's drug problem and no on-screen discussion of the hit-and-run as far as I can remember. Again, all we needed was one scene of Frank and Hawk discussing mundane police procedures and we'd have some context for Chad's arrest.


I agree with that. The least they could've done is indicate that Lucy *was* on to him when she was spying on him checking the mail and that she helped solve the Miriam puzzle which led to Chad's subsequent arrest. I'm pretty sure we're meant to connect those dots and assume Lucy was part of the inner circle ("We've been on to you for months") but even just for the Lucy character, who's had very little to do in terms of driving the main plot so far, that would have been a nice win.


I enjoyed the surprising element of Chad's arrest. If I had known that the others were on to him and planning his arrest, I wouldn't have found it as satisfactory as I did now.
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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Postby Burns's Suite » Thu Aug 24, 2017 6:14 am

Semi off-topic; but have either of the Woodsmen from FWWM (or maybe more specifically their actors in the role) appeared at all in the new show yet?

I went to compare the Woodsman with the electrical device from FWWM/TMP to the one in Part 15 with the device. I couldn't come to a conclusion since the makeup and lighting in Part 15 didn't make it clear enough to tell.
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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Postby Novalis » Thu Aug 24, 2017 6:28 am

Burns's Suite wrote:Semi off-topic; but have either of the Woodsmen from FWWM (or maybe more specifically their actors in the role) appeared at all in the new show yet?

I went to compare the Woodsman with the electrical device from FWWM/TMP to the one in Part 15 with the device. I couldn't come to a conclusion since the makeup and lighting in Part 15 didn't make it clear enough to tell.


I don't have images to hand right now but I can dig some out later. I'll go from memory.

Prochnow is clean-faced in FWWM, in contrast to the sooty/oil-faced woodwose in pt.15. Their machines both look like old radiograms to me, with the old tube valves instead of transistors, and in the brief glimpse we get of it in pt.15 I think you see something like an old vinyl record and stylus in the middle section. Both woodmen are sporting the 'hobo couture' style that is popular among some spirit residents of Twin Peaks.

EDIT: images now being added

Image

Image
As a matter of fact, 'Chalfont' was the name of the people that rented this space before. Two Chalfonts. Weird, huh?

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