Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

[Ragnell]

Fear and Love open the doors to the black and white lodges, yes, the owl cave map was a time, but Windom Earle needed Annie to gain entry because he needed her fear. Cooper was filled with fear when he entered, fear for Annie, possibly of what was inside that place. Cooper was only able to access the lodge because of his own fear, and that may have been the key to his undoing from the start.

Yeah, in a sense Coopers downfall were his feelings for Annie that put him to jeopardy. He seemed like a man without fear prior to that. Love however overcomes fear when it matters the most. Fear is the mindkiller and forces you to freeze at the worst point, but with love you can overcome that and make the ultimate sacrifice if necessary. In a sense Cooper had those both when entering the lodge, perhaps that is why he was not consumed. Windom surely had no love and his soul was consumed.

In the end I guess love will prevail. I don't know how it will go, I do not know what will happen, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Cooper waking up in the end in the bed at great Northern 25 years in the past and old never shown footage with Harry and many others greeting Coop when he wakes up, his mind had experienced 25 years in the struggle over himself, perhaps after he hit his head to the mirror or whatever. :]

You guys are making the same mistake the 90s Green Lantern writers made. Fear and Love open the doors. Facing the Lodge with "imperfect courage" annihilates your soul. Courage isn't the absence of fear or the presence of love, it's the ability no matter what the motives to overcome your fear. If you have no fear, it's not courage it's just stupidity. Windom Earle had no fear, he needed Annie's. What he had wasn't courage, it was overconfidence and it was his downfall.

It's also worth noting that the Black Lodge is a place "every soul passes through on the way to perfection", meaning you have to go through the Black Lodge to get to the White Lodge. You need the fear and the love to open both doors one after the other.

Dale's soul was split, but not annihilated. He did have courage, he was willing to be destroyed or enslaved to save someone. He just couldn't beat his OWN dark side. And he couldn't open the second door, implying he didn't truly love Annie like he thought. He was trapped there. He did get close to the White Lodge, though, he made it to the purple sea that surrounds it. After 25 years being trapped, and after seeing Laura again.

I don't know if that means he's in love with Laura (which is definitely something you can argue for, given the deep spiritual connection they share) or if 25 years with only these abstract spirits and thoughtforms around him have opened his heart to all humanity (which would be in keeping with his behavior as Dougie), but I am still convinced it means he wasn't as in love with Annie as he thought and that was what he was lacking in the test and what allowed his shadowself to slip past him.

[vicksvapor77]

During the scene with Big Ed and Norma, and especially afterward with the extremely positive shot of the sky, I suddenly had this thought: "Man, things are feeling so good right now, shit's probably about to get really dark".

Next shot: Dark dread! Power lines. Deep forest in the night. Dale enters Twin Peaks and stops at the Convenience Store.

"I knew it!"
.

Store not in TP

How do we know that it's not on the very outskirts of town? They shot the scene in WA and it's very clearly they're in a forest area.

[mtwentz]

The one thing that bothered me about this Part was the attempted imitation of Jeffries. The voice actor really missed the mark and the result distracted and annoyed me. I had to wonder, "What's the point?" It would have been far more effective if his lines had been read to Kyle in order for him to respond, but if the scene itself featured nothing but the boiler and steam in silence, with Dale the only one talking, forcing us to infer what Jeffries was communicating, presumably on another wavelength. Oh well.

Regarding the legality of using a Bowie impersonator or mash-up of old footage as some holographic vision, there's a chance that it's not really an obstacle at all considering that David Bowie appeared in "American Gods" played by a woman. One has to assume that impersonating Bowie as Jeffries is much less of a big deal than impersonating the man himself.

I think if there had been a better solution to the Bowie/Jeffries dilemma, Lynch would have found it.

[dronerstone]

The hypothesis of finding Judy at the coordinates given by Jeffries, leading to Twin Peaks, is pretty nice.

But regarding what Margaret said during her final conversation with Hawk: are we really sure about the big black owl/orb with horns/wings on top (from the modified Ace Of Spades playing card) is yet?

This is still one of the BIGGEST mysteries to me. Could be Mother, Judy, BOB, a giant evil owl, or just a portal itself...

I just hope this is cleared up until it's over.

I fear this is gonna be huge though. This might indeed be the moment everyone's poo starts flowing.

[Deep Thought]

Dale's soul was split, but not annihilated. He did have courage, he was willing to be destroyed or enslaved to save someone. He just couldn't beat his OWN dark side. And he couldn't open the second door, implying he didn't truly love Annie like he thought. He was trapped there. He did get close to the White Lodge, though, he made it to the purple sea that surrounds it.

I agree with this view. The Fireman has always seen DC as a seeker, but tells him in the opening scene that he has a long way to go to reach the White Lodge. "You are far away."

I see the Dougie part of Cooper's journey in the lyrics to Lynch's " Strange and Unproductive Thinking":

". . . cosmic Awareness, becoming one with the longing for complete surrender to the
Higher self, which has potentially been waiting these long eons of time,
And in fact sometimes has been dipping into a state of semi-sleep or
Unconsciousness, bordering on complete absence of thought."

[gary2381]

After seeing Part 15, I was thinking about one of the scenes from The Missing Pieces. Chet and Sam are about to enter Hap's Diner and there is a guy working on a lamp, Jack, and a bearded guy in the front. Do we know think that those are Woodsmen?

[Ragnell]

Who is worse than Evil Cooper in this show? He's either murdered people directly, in cold blood, or coerced others into doing so. He literally has (had?) Bob inside him. His death toll is higher than anyone in the show currently, unless I'm missing something?

He's not murdering children or old ladies - he kills criminals and/or people who are trying to kill him.

Yeah, that´s what I meant. He commits evil acts (killing people) but these are not characters we care about. On the other hand, Richard Horne chocking his grandmother and terrorizing her, killing a little kid, sexually aussaulting women und beating Miriam is way more shocking.

This has been worrying me, this "disposable people" thing. Yes, minor characters but still... Let's run down Doppelcoop's confirmed body count, not just those he directly kills but those he is definitely responsible for killing.

Parts 1/2: (6) Darya, the guy who rigged the secretary's car, and Phyllis were all criminals, yes. So was the guy guarding Buella's... however, he kills a guy within the first five minutes we see him, and its clearly frightening to Otis. That was meant to establish the sort of guy we're dealing with. In Part 12 we see the image of Doppelcoop in front of the Glass Box, telling us he is liable for the deaths of Sam and Tracy. Sam and Tracy, despite all those theories about Tracy's motives, are innocent students.

Part 3/4: (1) We learn that Doppelcoop and Jeffries were involved in the death of an FBI agent in Colombia. Here we see the first attempt on Dougie's life, confirmed as setup by Doppelcoop in Part 9.

Parts 5-8: (6) Is in prison. However, there's still the hit on Dougie and the collateral damage from that hit is 3 men in Part 5 and 3 women in Part 6. The men were car thieves, and one assumes the women were all as bad as Lorraine since they worked with her but we don't know her dayjob so its likely Ike the Spike offed Lorraine and her two innocent coworkers.

Part 9: (3) Hutch and Chantal killed two innocent farmers to create a safehouse for him in South Dakota after he got out of prison. We also learn this ep that Hasting's secretary, who's car was rigged on Doppelcoop's orders, died in a car explosion. All of these people were innocent.

Part 10-12: (1) Bad Coop is off-screen, but we still see Warden Murphy killed in front of his son. The attempts on Dougie's life continue, but without collateral damage.

Part 13: (2) Ray and the Arm-Wrestler dude. Both criminals, but when you consider this is his social circle he is systematically killing it's pretty cold-blooded.

Part 14: Offscreen, Hutch and Chantal are off the road, so relatively little carnage.

Part 15: (2) Mr. Todd and Roger finally die, without a thought from Doppelcoop. Yes, criminals, but it's established that Todd is mainly acting from terror of Doppelcoop.

That's 21 bodies in 15 episodes. Legitimately a higher body count than Windom Earle or BOB himself. Only a few innocents, but when have we ever seen the Doppelganger in a room with innocents? He spends all of his time around criminals and lowlifes, these are the closest he gets to having friends, and he kills them without a thought. And that is what is truly frightening and evil about the Doppelganger. Everyone is a disposable person to him. He has no friends, everyone he interacts with is terrified of him save the Lodge members (Woodsman, Jeffries, Bosomy Woman, guy on the phone), he spends all his time around criminals and kills them, but doesn't care if innocent people die either and he's not free of their blood either. If he spent more time with innocent people he'd certainly be killing them directly like he seems to kill everyone he spends more than one scene with.

[TPDpz]

Fear and Love open the doors to the black and white lodges, yes, the owl cave map was a time, but Windom Earle needed Annie to gain entry because he needed her fear. Cooper was filled with fear when he entered, fear for Annie, possibly of what was inside that place. Cooper was only able to access the lodge because of his own fear, and that may have been the key to his undoing from the start.

Yeah, in a sense Coopers downfall were his feelings for Annie that put him to jeopardy. He seemed like a man without fear prior to that. Love however overcomes fear when it matters the most. Fear is the mindkiller and forces you to freeze at the worst point, but with love you can overcome that and make the ultimate sacrifice if necessary. In a sense Cooper had those both when entering the lodge, perhaps that is why he was not consumed. Windom surely had no love and his soul was consumed.

In the end I guess love will prevail. I don't know how it will go, I do not know what will happen, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Cooper waking up in the end in the bed at great Northern 25 years in the past and old never shown footage with Harry and many others greeting Coop when he wakes up, his mind had experienced 25 years in the struggle over himself, perhaps after he hit his head to the mirror or whatever. :]

You guys are making the same mistake the 90s Green Lantern writers made. Fear and Love open the doors. Facing the Lodge with "imperfect courage" annihilates your soul. Courage isn't the absence of fear or the presence of love, it's the ability no matter what the motives to overcome your fear. If you have no fear, it's not courage it's just stupidity. Windom Earle had no fear, he needed Annie's. What he had wasn't courage, it was overconfidence and it was his downfall.

It's also worth noting that the Black Lodge is a place "every soul passes through on the way to perfection", meaning you have to go through the Black Lodge to get to the White Lodge. You need the fear and the love to open both doors one after the other.

Dale's soul was split, but not annihilated. He did have courage, he was willing to be destroyed or enslaved to save someone. He just couldn't beat his OWN dark side. And he couldn't open the second door, implying he didn't truly love Annie like he thought. He was trapped there. He did get close to the White Lodge, though, he made it to the purple sea that surrounds it. After 25 years being trapped, and after seeing Laura again.

I don't know if that means he's in love with Laura (which is definitely something you can argue for, given the deep spiritual connection they share) or if 25 years with only these abstract spirits and thoughtforms around him have opened his heart to all humanity (which would be in keeping with his behavior as Dougie), but I am still convinced it means he wasn't as in love with Annie as he thought and that was what he was lacking in the test and what allowed his shadowself to slip past him.

I agree on your definition of courage and have not claimed the other. Performing a self-sacrificial move out of love does require courage and it is that love that helps you find that courage. Of course you can have courage without such situations as well and most usually have, it's called bravery. The indian braves loved their people and that made them overcome almost all situations and at all cost be ready to sacrifice themselves for the greater good. It's a common saying that love conquers all, love overcomes fear etc. and I can clearly see it why it is so. It's not only just word play, but in reality also states of energy that I will not dwell any deeper in to.

Being fearless does not equal being reckless. Windom was reckless, pure stupid to play with such forces and think they'd really care for him or he could gain anything from them for his selfish needs. If anything the lodge spirits despise that like we've seen with Mr. C. Windom was also without love and I merely speculated that it might've been the reason his soul was annihilated, for sure he had no source to dig deep for that courage.

Dale was also empowered with love and I was speculating that maybe that was the reason his soul was not annihilated. We do not know was it this or just his boldness that made him be that courageous. I think you make false assumptions on that his love was not enough, but that remains to be seen. I too have some vague recollections of something regarding Dale and Laura, for sure they'll bond together after their experiences in the lodge at least.

Do we know for certain that there is a way from black lodge to the white lodge? And it is required to enter from the black lodge to the white lodge to survive it? How can we know that the second door was to be opened anyways, not all doors lead forward and how can we make the assumption that door was to be opened with love?

I also am still open to the case that this all could be a dream and the struggle is still on going inside his head. If someone can prove the other way around, then your assumption on the dark side winning might be true. You can always come back from that as well unless your other side is completely destroyed. I leave this all to be seen. I do like your theory on the lodge stuff however but to simplify courage and leave out the background for where you can dig deep for it is just not right. The root cause is as important if not more so than the outcome, especially in problems.

[TheGum]

Should we maybe be referring to the "woodsmen" as the "Dutchmen" at this point? Is the convenience store "the dutchman's"
They could easily all pass for pirates/seamen if in fact the convenience store is akin to the mythical Flying Dutchman

[Manwith]

Pretty sure the "Jeffries" who made the phone call early-on (and later tried to have the doppelganger killed) was Mike, in actuality. Makes sense, since he "wants to be with Bob again."

Seemed clear in Part 15 that Jeffries had not been in contact with the doppelganger in the last 25 years. And I think Mike makes a lot more sense than Diane...

I tend to agree with this, as it makes the most sense motivationally. There are a couple things that confuse me however-
1- the voice says you're going back in tomorrow, I will be with Bob again. Why would Mike tip his hand? Is he like, monologueing like some comic book villain here!?
2-he mentions that he spoke with Garland Briggs. Why would Mike speak to Briggs? What about?

And let's not forget that Doppelcoop has something to do with Hastings as well that hasn't been explained. He shows up and kills his wife saying "you follow human nature perfectly." What's the motivation here? We saw The woodsman in the neighboring cell earlier in the episode so we can assume that he informed Doppelcoop of the situation, I'm assuming they're aligned since they save him later. But if the woodsmen kill Hastings himself later, why didn't they just knock off his wife too?

Questions 1 and 2 I can't help with!

The Doppelganger killed Phyllis to help cover his tracks a little, after using her to help frame Bill for Ruth's murder. (Presumably she was ripe for manipulation, since both she and Bill were having affairs behind one anothers' backs.)

Are you sure he didn't just kill her for fun, or because Bob enjoyed it? The Amnesia of Hastings seems to echo Leland's Amnesia, though maybe that was a red herring..

[Framed_Angel]

I guess this has already been mentioned but I hadn't seen it. (Sorry. So much to read through!)

Did you notice the three-prongs poking vertically from the top of Jeffries' teapot?

The resembled the three-prongs at the front of Richard's car when he drove to Miriam's. The electrical prongs.

[Ragnell]

Yeah, in a sense Coopers downfall were his feelings for Annie that put him to jeopardy. He seemed like a man without fear prior to that. Love however overcomes fear when it matters the most. Fear is the mindkiller and forces you to freeze at the worst point, but with love you can overcome that and make the ultimate sacrifice if necessary. In a sense Cooper had those both when entering the lodge, perhaps that is why he was not consumed. Windom surely had no love and his soul was consumed.

In the end I guess love will prevail. I don't know how it will go, I do not know what will happen, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Cooper waking up in the end in the bed at great Northern 25 years in the past and old never shown footage with Harry and many others greeting Coop when he wakes up, his mind had experienced 25 years in the struggle over himself, perhaps after he hit his head to the mirror or whatever. :]

You guys are making the same mistake the 90s Green Lantern writers made. Fear and Love open the doors. Facing the Lodge with "imperfect courage" annihilates your soul. Courage isn't the absence of fear or the presence of love, it's the ability no matter what the motives to overcome your fear. If you have no fear, it's not courage it's just stupidity. Windom Earle had no fear, he needed Annie's. What he had wasn't courage, it was overconfidence and it was his downfall.

It's also worth noting that the Black Lodge is a place "every soul passes through on the way to perfection", meaning you have to go through the Black Lodge to get to the White Lodge. You need the fear and the love to open both doors one after the other.

Dale's soul was split, but not annihilated. He did have courage, he was willing to be destroyed or enslaved to save someone. He just couldn't beat his OWN dark side. And he couldn't open the second door, implying he didn't truly love Annie like he thought. He was trapped there. He did get close to the White Lodge, though, he made it to the purple sea that surrounds it. After 25 years being trapped, and after seeing Laura again.

I don't know if that means he's in love with Laura (which is definitely something you can argue for, given the deep spiritual connection they share) or if 25 years with only these abstract spirits and thoughtforms around him have opened his heart to all humanity (which would be in keeping with his behavior as Dougie), but I am still convinced it means he wasn't as in love with Annie as he thought and that was what he was lacking in the test and what allowed his shadowself to slip past him.

I agree on your definition of courage and have not claimed the other. Performing a self-sacrificial move out of love does require courage and it is that love that helps you find that courage. Of course you can have courage without such situations as well and most usually have, it's called bravery. The indian braves loved their people and that made them overcome almost all situations and at all cost be ready to sacrifice themselves for the greater good. It's a common saying that love conquers all, love overcomes fear etc. and I can clearly see it why it is so. It's not only just word play, but in reality also states of energy that I will not dwell any deeper in to.

Being fearless does not equal being reckless. Windom was reckless, pure stupid to play with such forces and think they'd really care for him or he could gain anything from them for his selfish needs. If anything the lodge spirits despise that like we've seen with Mr. C. Windom was also without love and I merely speculated that it might've been the reason his soul was annihilated, for sure he had no source to dig deep for that courage.

Dale was also empowered with love and I was speculating that maybe that was the reason his soul was not annihilated. We do now know was it this or just his boldness that made him be that courageous. I think you make false assumptions on that his love was not enough.

Do we know for certain that there is a way from black lodge to the white lodge? And it is required to enter from the black lodge to the white lodge to survive it? How can we know that the second door was to be opened anyways, not all doors lead forward and how can we make the assumption that door was to be opened with love?

I also am still open to the case that this all could be a dream and the struggle is still on going inside his head. If someone can prove the other way around, then your assumption on the dark side winning might be true. I leave this all to be seen. I do like your theory on the lodge stuff however but to simplify courage and leave out the background for where you can dig deep for it is just not right. The root cause is as important if not more so than the outcome, especially in problems.

Only Hawk's statement, the same one that said he'd be annihilated with imperfect courage. Thing is, I never read Cooper and Annie as a genuine, substantial epic love. I thought it was a rebound romance, and the use of Caroline in his lodge test (which many fans attribute to Windom Earle's influence) said to me that he was transposing his old love onto Annie.

The fact that as Dougie he's actually had sexual relations and experienced romantic attention but not been reminded of Annie tells me I'm on the right track, though. If he was truly in love with her, he'd be reminded of her by those sorts of experiences, instead he just accepts them. Janey-E's hugs and kisses made him look up and to the direction Laura disappeared, and his first memory as Dougie was of Laura. If his love for Annie was strong enough to open the White Lodge, then it would have been brought somehow to mind, like the flag reminded him of patriotic music.

You might be right, and love in Dale's heart may have saved him in the Black Lodge. But I don't believe his love for Annie was that strong. It would have had to have been fortified by the love he had for other people as well. I'm inclined, though, to think the romantic love he had was not enough to open the door and it's the pure, uncomplicated love Dale's been experiencing as he tries to reconnect with humanity that will get him into the White Lodge this season.

[Ragnell]

Dale's soul was split, but not annihilated. He did have courage, he was willing to be destroyed or enslaved to save someone. He just couldn't beat his OWN dark side. And he couldn't open the second door, implying he didn't truly love Annie like he thought. He was trapped there. He did get close to the White Lodge, though, he made it to the purple sea that surrounds it.

I agree with this view. The Fireman has always seen DC as a seeker, but tells him in the opening scene that he has a long way to go to reach the White Lodge. "You are far away."

I see the Dougie part of Cooper's journey in the lyrics to Lynch's " Strange and Unproductive Thinking":

". . . cosmic Awareness, becoming one with the longing for complete surrender to the
Higher self, which has potentially been waiting these long eons of time,
And in fact sometimes has been dipping into a state of semi-sleep or
Unconsciousness, bordering on complete absence of thought."

So, do you think the opener was Dale projecting from the Black Lodge, or a flashforward and we'll see him make this visit soon?

[mtwentz]

Of all the questions, all the suspense for the last three episodes, 'what is that 'ringing noise' in the Great Northern' is the most burning question I have now.

Not sure why it intrigues more than Naido's identity and 'who/what is Judy"- maybe it's because there are so many possibilities.

I think the early theory was that it was Josie's spirit, but I've heard very little discussion of that lately. Does anyone still think the noise is related to Josie Packard?

[TheGum]

I'm voting flash forward. It is the only scene in the entire series to occur before the opening credits, I think that is intended to give us a cue that it's not necessarily a part of the timeline we are entering.