Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

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silvo
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Post by silvo »

Candy/Mandy/Sandy are all reffering to Andy I think! The characters fits nice
Rhodes
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Post by Rhodes »

Another poster said it very well: "The only problem with The Return is that it makes the original show look dated and a bit silly".
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Trudy Chelgren
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Post by Trudy Chelgren »

Opinions;

I saw Part 16 when it was released accidentally in the UK. I was, besides Parts 1 & 2, truly involved in this one. There's passively watching, enjoying. But this was
involvement. Maybe it was the late night, and the headphones.

Cooper was hibernating. Somewhere deep inside his catatonic exterior, he was putting everything together. Formulating plans and preparing for when the time comes. He just hits the ground running, and it was such a joy to see. Simple, sincere joy without irony or shame. It's a quality I commend in a show that most see as esoteric and deliberately elusive. To be so barefaced about it's own delight was necessary and perfectly metered. The scenes with the Mitchum brothers, Cooper driving with Falling surging alongside, and his goodbye in the Silver Mustang were all so beautiful.

I enjoyed Diane's scenes more than any of the rest of Dern's work this season. Finally, some other dimensions to her character to see. Her saying "Fuck you" to Mike was hilarious. Richard's death was anticlimactic, and I can't get around that. There was no catharsis, just another piece of quick, effective violence and emotionless intimidation that scenes with Mr. C. always deliver. Jerry's path crossing with theirs was interesting though.

I think this quote from AV Club illustrates something really interesting: "It’s torturously patient. It’s agonizingly patient. It’s electrifyingly patient. It’s easy to wish it could move faster, but it’s also as futile as Jerry Horne looking into the wrong end of the binoculars and cursing the lenses instead of his own blunder in perspective."
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Post by sewhite2000 »

BigEd wrote:
sewhite2000 wrote: Lynch being Lynch I was afraid those pink-clad blondes were going to be subject to violence from them (don't shuffle this off to another thread, Big Ed! I'll just make that one point and move on), but instead we get them softheartedly reminding each other that Candie has "nowhere else to go" and Candie herself affirming they have hearts of gold. The more I've seen of them, the more I ended up liking them.
Really?? You were afraid that Lynch was going to have Candy/Mandy/Sandy worked over??

You must be watching a different DL than I have been. You can shuffle off to whatever other thread you want, but this is just crazy talk. Those "pink-clad blondes" will be just fine until the end! 8)
I was under the impression that you were the czar who won't let anyone discuss violence against women as a constant, recurring theme in Lynch's work on episode threads. I don't think it's crazy talk to fear violence against virtually any female character who appears in any Lynch work ever. I find your attitude toward my honest opinion condescending, which annoys me.
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Dreamy Audrey
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Post by Dreamy Audrey »

Did the man who was throwing the bottle at the other man in the Roadhouse after Audrey's dance call him "Barney"? In Part 1, Marjorie Green said that the manager of Ruth Davenport's apartment is called Barney and "Barney's not here. He's a funny one, that Barney. He's in the hospital, not the regular hospital." It sounded to me like she was saying he was crazy, and later we had a few "nuthouse" references in Part 14 (Chad said about the man who was bleeding from his mouth "Fucking nuthouse" and Sophie said to Tina's daughter: "That's because you're hanging out at the nuthouse.") If characters who are connected to Audrey are crazy/in a nuthouse, does that confirm the theory that Audrey is in a mental institution?
sewhite2000
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Post by sewhite2000 »

She certainly appeared to be wearing something white, possibly a gown, that would indicate she's in some sort of medical or mental facility.
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Post by Rhodes »

I expect part 17/18 to be as magnificent as this one.

Besides wrapping up the main plot, I would like to see some characters from earlier episodes: Leland, Red, Beverly, Becky and of course Laura. Maybe American Girl? The guy from the photo of the glass box?

Still hoping to see Harry Truman (and/or Annie, Chet Desmond). And maybe a mention of Donna and/or Pete?
writersblock
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Post by writersblock »

Mr. Reindeer wrote:
BigEd wrote:You guys are giving me a headache. Mr. C told Richard that he was "25 years his senior." That just meant that he was 25 years older than Richard (it doesn't matter how old either one of them is). Now, since we know that TPTR is happening 25 years after the original series, that tells us that since Richard is Mr. C's son via Audrey rape in hospital (hopefully nobody is still arguing against that), then it all checks out. Richard is 25 years old. It doesn't matter what age Mr. C / Coop is. It's just math folks. :lol:
I think you're confused. Think about it this way.

David Lynch was born in 1946. His daughter Lula was born in 2012. That makes him 66 years her senior (i.e., he spent 66 years on Earth before she was born).

Now, if we were to retcon DKL's birth to 1956, he would only be 56 years her senior.

The parent's age is the key here; the kid's age is irrelevant.
I am having fun watching people getting confused by this :D
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Ragnell
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Post by Ragnell »

nonemoreblack wrote:
Ragnell wrote:
nonemoreblack wrote:
It's not that I want Dale to have a tragic ending. I'd just rather he had a different kind of ending. I see what you're saying, but for me it would just feel like a slap in the face as someone who loved the fact that Audrey's life seemed to have an optimistic future only to become part of that pattern. I have mixed feelings about her situation as it is. With Annie, we can only guess how she ended up, but nobody else in Twin Peaks has exactly had a great 25 years since that happened.
Audrey still has a future, though. And on the bright side her son is dead. I'm thinking with all the focus on her we will see her overcome this. It may not be such a slap when her story plays out.

But if you're an Audrey-Coop shipper, I'm sorry. It does not look likely. I don't think Audrey's path to happiness is in a man, though. She may yet have some self-actualization.
Oh no, I'm not saying I want them to be together. Regardless of how Audrey's arc finishes - the fact that her dream man (even though it wasn't him) raped her, got her pregnant, and possibly trapped her for 25 years is very upsetting. At the end of the day her pain was caused by a man after he specifically went out of his way to distance himself from her. Audrey being part of that pattern leaves a bad taste in my mouth is all. Diane too for that matter.
Yeah, and I think that's something to unpack at length in the gender thread, I don't know how much they've covered it I don't think Dale going off alone is going to improve that, though. There's still a possibility it can be a satisfying end, though, because this isn't a series where that sort of violence is throwaway but a series where violence against women, particularly sexual, is one of the core, spotlighted themes. He brought Laura's story home in the movie, he's got two hours to bring Audrey's story home.
sewhite2000 wrote:Anyway, we've gone on to see the Mitchems get bonked in the face with remote controls, have dreams of cherry pie, dance in a conga line, eat cereal together, buy a gym set and fuel up a jet at Cooper's request without even asking what he needs it for. I couldn't have anticipated any of those crazy scenes from their first appearance. Lynch being Lynch I was afraid those pink-clad blondes were going to be subject to violence from them (don't shuffle this off to another thread, Big Ed! I'll just make that one point and move on), but instead we get them softheartedly reminding each other that Candie has "nowhere else to go" and Candie herself affirming they have hearts of gold. The more I've seen of them, the more I ended up liking them.
I was little worried about them too, Candie's reaction to accidentally hitting Rodney suggests she's suffered from violence in her past. (Shields gave an interview saying that was her own thought-up backstory for Candie, that she was a trafficking victim the Mitchems rescued. If it applies to all 3 pink ladies, then that explains why the other two never talk.)

What I really loved is that the Mitchems had a chance to kill Hutch and Chantel, to get into that firefight and all of the audience would have been totally on their sides if they took those bad guys out... and they didn't. They just hunkered low and kept their guns out for self-defense because they had no context for the situation. That's a sign of what sort of people they are, too.
Trudy Chelgren wrote:Cooper was hibernating. Somewhere deep inside his catatonic exterior, he was putting everything together. Formulating plans and preparing for when the time comes. He just hits the ground running, and it was such a joy to see. Simple, sincere joy without irony or shame. It's a quality I commend in a show that most see as esoteric and deliberately elusive. To be so barefaced about it's own delight was necessary and perfectly metered. The scenes with the Mitchum brothers, Cooper driving with Falling surging alongside, and his goodbye in the Silver Mustang were all so beautiful.
Yes, this. He knew exactly what he needed as soon as he woke up and he made use of the connections he made in Las Vegas. (There's still a chance that "I need another one" wasn't for the Joneses but was for his move against the Doppelganger.) Hibernating is just a great word for it. I love how he remembered everything everyone had done for him, and he thanked Bushnell and reassured the Joneses.
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mtwentz
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Post by mtwentz »

BigEd wrote:
Ragnell wrote: "I'm going to test this deathtrap on my son" is NOT mitigated by his son being a horrible person.
Of course it is! We all hate Richard. We're supposed to hate Richard. Richard ran over a little boy and tried to kill a nice lady who looked after small children. Richard terrorized his Grandmother and his disabled uncle. Richard terrorized a girl at the Roadhouse. We've all been hoping for weeks/months that Richard would get something like this. What am I missing?? :?:
This just occurred to me- Richard being dispatched so quickly is reminiscent of what happened to Windom Earle in the Black Lodge. Lynch playing with our expectations of a prolonged confrontation.
F*&^ you Gene Kelly
4815162342
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Post by 4815162342 »

sewhite2000 wrote:
Esselgee wrote:So does everyone else agree that Jerry definitely recognized Richard and possibly Cooper through his binoculars, even though looking through binoculars that way wouldn't have magnified anything?

Will he go tell Ben about what he saw?
Can anyone confirm if Jerry said anything legible after Richard's apparent death? It sounded to me like he was crying out, "Ben! Ben! Ben!", but I wasn't sure. If he was, it would indicate he knew he was looking at Richard, though I have no idea how he could make him out through tiny lens (maybe Sparkle gives him super-vision!).
Pretty sure it was "bad bad bad...binoculars'
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Ragnell
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Post by Ragnell »

mtwentz wrote:
BigEd wrote:
Ragnell wrote: "I'm going to test this deathtrap on my son" is NOT mitigated by his son being a horrible person.
Of course it is! We all hate Richard. We're supposed to hate Richard. Richard ran over a little boy and tried to kill a nice lady who looked after small children. Richard terrorized his Grandmother and his disabled uncle. Richard terrorized a girl at the Roadhouse. We've all been hoping for weeks/months that Richard would get something like this. What am I missing?? :?:
This just occurred to me- Richard being dispatched so quickly is reminiscent of what happened to Windom Earle in the Black Lodge. Lynch playing with our expectations of a prolonged confrontation.
Ooo, you're right. Meanwhile Chad is in the holding cells, where a lot of the plot is building towards. Maybe Richard's story serves better to show the lasting chain reaction of mental anguish Doppelcoop caused, and set up Audrey's arc (and maybe Chad for the larger payoff--or Chad will be horribly mutilated in a blissfully anticlimatic way as well :D ), while Richard's end serves simply to outline the differences between Doppelcoop and Real Coop (contrasting how Real Coop interacts with Sonny Jim after he wakes up) before we get the confirmation of what Doppelcoop did to both Audrey and Diane. A big "By the way, this is Cooper in a metaphysical/parapsychological way but it is NOT Cooper in any of the important ways."
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Post by Hester Prynne »

Mr. Reindeer wrote:
thedarktrees wrote:A minor point, but wondering what people think about this: WHY would Cooper say that he knows that the Mitchum bros have hearts of gold???

As much as I thought the Mitchum brothers were amazing character in this season, how could Coop of all people come to think they have hearts of gold? I mean they viciously beat one of their employees while firing him when they lost money on the jackpots. I'm not sure they've done a whole lot to redeem themselves since then. Even their care and concern for Dougie is only because they cashed in with a $30M insurance claim because of him. Not so gold-hearted there either.

Maybe the bar is low after being in the Black Lodge for 25 years. I don't know.
This bugged me too. Bradley was ITCHING to murder Dougie, so it seems pretty likely they've killed people in the past. Doesn't reflect super well on our Dale's judgment.
I don't know if it was intended this way, but the "hearts of gold" comment could have been a play on words given that we've seen two people or "tulpas' created from or are essentially gold. I don't know if that would mean the Mitchum Brothers are necessarily manufactured - I'm starting to think the end of the story is going to suggest everyone is manufactured or somehow made from gold given the Fireman scene and golden Laura orb we see from Ep. 8.
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Post by Hester Prynne »

If Naido is Diane, who is American Girl?
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docLEXfisti
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Post by docLEXfisti »

I guess Sherilyn Fenn should better be thankful, as she has gotten one of the most memorable scenes of the new show. Man what an episode, I'm still digesting... after last episodes wonderful music, Eddie Vedder didn't do it for me. Should have played one of the woodsmen by his looks :lol:

But I think the song is in relation to Audrey, not Cooper. Ah man, just two more hours to go.

PS: with Booper destined to "die" at the end of the season, if a SE04 ever happens - Richard will be the main mean guy. You read it here first, folks ;)
Last edited by docLEXfisti on Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:06 am, edited 2 times in total.
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