Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

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Bookworm
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby Bookworm » Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:06 am

mtwentz wrote:
Wonderful & Strange wrote:So many payoffs, yet all so unexpected. So many huge emotions, and all earned through hours of painstaking character development and focus on theme.

Lynch proved the unfaithful naysayers wrong yet again! :lol:


Definitely, though I want to say at this point- the naysayers are welcomed back into the fold, no questions asked, no apologies necessary :-)


That very kind of you. Alas I don't plan to come back into said fold. I rather stay in the naysayers clan.
writersblock
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby writersblock » Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:13 am

TheGum wrote:I haven't read past page 16 of this thread yet, but does anyone think "Billy" is Billy Zane? A dreamlike meta way for Audrey to pine for the one she loves wherever she has been trapped?


That crossed my mind, too :D
writersblock
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby writersblock » Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:21 am

FlyingSquirrel wrote:
writersblock wrote:
kornishpyxee wrote:
But wasn't Dopplecooper "created" when Cooper entered the lodge with "imperfect courage?

kornishpyxee


Cooper didn't enter the Lodge with imperfect courage.

If he did then the Lodge would have completely annihilated his soul.


I'm not sure we have to take that literally. It could have just been a metaphor for being used as a vessel for a Black Lodge spirit and/or having a doppelganger of yourself created.

It does seem like at least one of two things - agreeing to give his soul to Earle or running from the doppelganger - was the cause of what happened to Cooper. That's one thing I don't especially like about how all this has played out so far. I wanted to see him figure out what he did wrong and somehow atone for it, whereas it seems instead like he was always going to be released after 25 years no matter what.


I think completely overwhelm your soul would have fitted better. Annihilate is a pretty strong and final world.

I think that's what happened to Earle - he lost his courage and Bob destroyed him.

Cooper survived because he didn't. In fact, willing to give up his soul to save someone shows that.

I always saw it that Bob needed to unleash the Doppelganger that he clearly hitched a ride in because he couldn't get the real Cooper!

It was the only way I could personally rationalise the Doppelganger vs Possession concepts.
ShelleyAgedWell
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby ShelleyAgedWell » Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:21 am

Good Coop's return felt rather flat to me. The previous episode's scene in which the mention of Gorden Cole triggered something in Dougie/Good Coop's brain was better.

Chantal and Hutch's demise was silly, but somewhat fun.

I didn't like the Richard Horne character, not because he did horrible things but because he didn't have much more than that about him, so I'm glad he's dead...I think?
I'm intrigued as to what's special about the rock he stood on, and where it is located. Near Twin Peaks, I assume. Nice to see the Jerry Horne lost in the wild subplot finally take on some significance.

Audrey dancing in the Roadhouse was strange, what with everyone else in the place moving to one side to watch her, but the type of strange I can get on board with unlike the green glove boy. By far the most interesting part of the episode was it being confirmed that her previous scenes haven't been all that they seem.
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FlyingSquirrel
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby FlyingSquirrel » Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:22 am

bastia wrote:Anyway, I just loved the episode!

I don't think Audrey is in coma, i think it is in a mental istitution. That is why sheriff truman went talk to ben wjen richard went on the run.

Everything was great, but where is Laura? Come on, i am waiting her since episode 2 :(


If Audrey is in the lodge, maybe she and Laura are hanging out with Diane.

"Sometimes my arms bend back."
"Fuck you, Laura."
"Do your palms ever itch?"
"Fuck you, Audrey."
"Where we're from, the birds sing a pretty song."
"Fuck you, The Arm."
writersblock
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby writersblock » Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:27 am

FlyingSquirrel wrote:
bastia wrote:Anyway, I just loved the episode!

I don't think Audrey is in coma, i think it is in a mental istitution. That is why sheriff truman went talk to ben wjen richard went on the run.

Everything was great, but where is Laura? Come on, i am waiting her since episode 2 :(


If Audrey is in the lodge, maybe she and Laura are hanging out with Diane.

"Sometimes my arms bend back."
"Fuck you, Laura."
"Do your palms ever itch?"
"Fuck you, Audrey."
"Where we're from, the birds sing a pretty song."
"Fuck you, The Arm."


If "Fuck you, The Arm," isn't a quote from the finale I will be very disappointed... :lol:
KyleRickards
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby KyleRickards » Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:28 am

ThumbsUp wrote:So Mr. C didn't manufacture Dougie, right? Coop did? That's what I now figure... why else would Coop know how to make tulpas, and why else would Janey-E be related to Diane?


I thought Mr C did make Dougie and now our Coop is making an improved version?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
writersblock
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby writersblock » Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:32 am

KyleRickards wrote:
ThumbsUp wrote:So Mr. C didn't manufacture Dougie, right? Coop did? That's what I now figure... why else would Coop know how to make tulpas, and why else would Janey-E be related to Diane?


I thought Mr C did make Dougie and now our Coop is making an improved version?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Yeah that's my take on it.

Mr C (always see Tom Bosley when I say this) made a "fake Cooper" so that he could be dragged into the Lodge instead of him.

I saw Cooper replacing a substandard copy as the reason he was borderline catatonic as something had gone wrong.

Dougie was a pretty rubbish human being, based on the fact he was created from the Doppelganger... like the copy of a copy.

Hopefully a fully functioning Cooper Tulpa will be a much better human being...
anthoto1
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby anthoto1 » Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:34 am

ShelleyAgedWell wrote:Audrey dancing in the Roadhouse was strange, what with everyone else in the place moving to one side to watch her


Of course it was strange : this wasn't reality as for every previous Audrey's scene.
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Troubbble
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby Troubbble » Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:45 am

KyleRickards wrote:
ThumbsUp wrote:So Mr. C didn't manufacture Dougie, right? Coop did? That's what I now figure... why else would Coop know how to make tulpas, and why else would Janey-E be related to Diane?


I thought Mr C did make Dougie and now our Coop is making an improved version?


The doppelganger WAS the one who created Dougie. But Dale can do the same.

No special explanation is needed for his new level of insight. He's been in the lodge for 25 years, where he has learned a great deal about a great many things. Note how his words reflected a deeper understanding of the tulpas and their creation, as highlighted by his reference to the golden ball as a "seed"--something which hadn't been mentioned before in the context of Dougie or Diane.

Unsure whether his influence will allow for a "purified" version of Dougie, or if the seed will simply be reproduced as it was, with Dougie being restored to his family as they remembered him...
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Novalis
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby Novalis » Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:55 am

Given I've only seen this part once so far, I'm stating for the record that I reserve the right for my feelings about it to change on subsequent re-watches (as they often do), nonetheless: that was -- excuse me -- a damn fine hour of television.

A more extended commentary will follow.
As a matter of fact, 'Chalfont' was the name of the people that rented this space before. Two Chalfonts. Weird, huh?
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AgentEcho
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby AgentEcho » Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:58 am

So what does the Audrey revelation say about the Roadhouse scenes and "Billy", who has been referred to by people other than Billy. Were all, or perhaps just some, of the Roadhouse scenes taking place in Audrey's head? How does Bing, who was looking for Billy, play into all this? I think a lot of her story may be more complex than it seems (not that it seems simple).
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garethw
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby garethw » Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:00 am

Troubbble wrote:What do we make of the guy who dispatched Hutch and Chantal? Was that "random" and just an exercise in subverting expectations? Felt like maybe more, but I'm at a total loss.


Was he trying to get into the driveway at 1-1-9 lady's house?

I loved that whole scene, even if I am sad to see the end of Hutch and Chantal.
thunderclap82
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby thunderclap82 » Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:02 am

KHAN Games wrote:Anyone notice the continuity error from the text that DoppleCoop sent Diane? Two different time stamps between cuts, one from an iMessage and one from a Text Message. Haha. Probably not relevant.


I haven't caught up on all the posts in this thread yet, but Mr. C's message didn't go through initially. So the the discrepancy in the timestamp is plausible because she's seeing the timestamp of when the message actually went through, not when he first tried to send it.
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Nighthawk
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby Nighthawk » Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:03 am

AgentEcho wrote:So what does the Audrey revelation say about the Roadhouse scenes and "Billy", who has been referred to by people other than Billy. Were all, or perhaps just some, of the Roadhouse scenes taking place in Audrey's head? How does Bing, who was looking for Billy, play into all this? I think a lot of her story may be more complex than it seems (not that it seems simple).


I think we have to sort out the "real time" Roadhouse scenes from the fictional ones. To pick an obvious one: James singing "Just You" probably never happened in reality.

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