Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby iar » Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:33 am

AgentEcho wrote:So what does the Audrey revelation say about the Roadhouse scenes and "Billy", who has been referred to by people other than Billy. Were all, or perhaps just some, of the Roadhouse scenes taking place in Audrey's head? How does Bing, who was looking for Billy, play into all this? I think a lot of her story may be more complex than it seems (not that it seems simple).


That's my guess. I haven't re-watched, but it's possible that some of the Roadhouse scenes are "real" and some are "Audrey's dream". I'd love to go back and look at each one. We've already noted that some of them seemed really odd, confusing, full of non-sequiturs. In fact, a lot of posters described them similarly to Audrey's first scene "what's the point?" "why do they keep talking about new people?" "Who are all these people?"

The scene with James and Green Glove would probably be real. Probably also Shelly and Red. But what about the one with that girl who ends up on the floor screaming? Seemed to echo Audrey's screaming at Charlie. And what about these other girls discussing Tina?! And the girls discussing men? And drugs? Are these all little stories in Audrey's head? Do any of them maybe echo stories or themes from 25 years back?
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby bosguy1981 » Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:36 am

Mr. Reindeer wrote:
Rhodes wrote:Still hoping to see Harry Truman (and/or Annie, Chet Desmond). And maybe a mention of Donna and/or Pete?


Not expecting to see any of the above in new footage except maybe Harry. But I'm shocked we haven't gotten a Nance dedication yet. I hope it was saved for the finale. I guess I can accept that Pete was so removed from the new story that they just couldn't shoehorn in a mention/photo, but it will be sad if the only acknowledgement of his death is in TSHoTP.


This reminds me of a Jack Nance theory I had, but forgot about until just now. Back in 2012 or so, Mary Sweeney (editor of FWWM) attended one of the Twin Peaks cast Q&A sessions that were held in CA. She was asked about the deleted scenes from FWWM (this was before they were released to us) and she described some of her favorites. When she was talking about them, she chuckled and said there "were a couple" of scenes cut starring Jack Nance. Ultimately only one scene (with Josie and Dell Mibbler) made it into the Missing Pieces. Certainly, it's possible she misspoke about how many scenes Nance appeared in (I believe people were able to confirm his scripted scene with Big Ed was not filmed).

Anyway, I've always hoped Sweeney did not misspeak, and there is one other deleted scene from FWWM with Pete Martell (maybe just something short and silly, like him reciting "two by four, four by eight" in the office of the sawmill) and that Lynch deliberately held onto that scene, so as to dream up a way to write it into the new episodes (as a flashback or something). This would allow him to put Nance in the new episodes, credit him, and give him one of the "In Memory of" credits. Would be a great surprise for all of us to see him pop up like that too!

Now that we're so close to the end of these new episodes, I'm probably wrong about this because I bet a flashback of that sort wouldn't be held until the 2-hour finale but I'm re-upping the idea now just incase! :D
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby Jacob » Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:38 am

I liked the part, but after all the wait, after all the digressions of Parts 9-15, a lot of it felt too predictable.
So yeah, Cooper is finally coming back, he's got to say goodbye to Janey-E in order to -- probably -- sacrifice himself, Bad Coop raped Diane... We were expecting to see and/or know all of this basically 10 parts ago. I mean, don't get me wrong : I loved the Dougie storyline, and IMO it's brilliant that it lasted so long. But if you want to subvert people expectations like Frost & Lynch did, you have to do it until the end. At this point, I was almost hoping that Coop would never get back : that was the only solution that made all this never-ending Dougie storyline worthwhile. Here, everything is finally ending up how you would expect since the beginning -- almost on a randomly way ("now you're awake !"). Therefore, a lot of the previous parts doesn't really seems necessary...

Now that being said, the part in itself was really good. And with only two parts left, I want to focus on what's next and not the flaws of the past. After all, the mere existence of season 3 is a miracle on itself, so !


- First, I loved the Chantal & Hutch killing. It sounded a bit like a continuation of Janey-E scene with the gangsters in Part 5, with the stressed suburban people being more dangerous/crazy than the real criminals. It felt also like an hommage to "Breaking Bad" (the set, the photography, the crazy bald guy). We know Lynch saw and liked it, so...

- It's strange and yet very stimulating how the show is really construct as a puzzle. Obviously that's not something really new from Lynch, but whereas it was on Mulholland Dr., INLAND EMPIRE, Lost Highway or even FWWM always presented on an intuitive level -- meaning that you didn't really have to "solve" the puzzle to understand emotionnally the film --, here it's really more something like "Lost", where you have to experience the show twice -- while watching it, then while deconstructing it -- to fully understand it.
I have to say, since I wasn't expecting this from Lynch, that I started approach the show that way only recently. The Jumping Man/Sarah Palmer shot, the Purple World's Mountain/Jack Rabbit's Palace parallel, and now obviously Diane/Naido... the show is more intellectual than intuitive than what I expected, and therefore I'm really looking to rewatch it !

- Sorry but Chrysta Bell is still awful. She had basically no lines this week and still I found all of her looks and attitudes unbearable. She will have remain a casting error until the end. :?

- I'm wondering what Coop has seen while he was on a coma. Maybe he was in the purple world... and we are probably going to see him in this world once again, because I think he's beginning to understand that his destiny is "non-existent"...

- The fact that, when Bad Coop is raping someone, he seems to be able to "poison" them, made me think of Blue Velvet, when Isabella Rossellini is screaming naked "he put his disease in me !". And the way Laura Dern, in the film, was looking at her was very similar of her look in her "death" scene from Part 16.

- Sherilyn Fenn's dance was beautiful. It felt like a reward, after all those demeaning lines with Charlie. It felt something like love, finally, coming from Lynch & Frost. And it's funny, for a character that's only came up in Part 12, and who's before that was such a taboo subject, that she's ending up more important than a lot of more promoted characters. If before Part 1, you would have told me that Fenn had more screen times than Madchen Amick or Amanda Seyfried, I would have never believed it !

- About that same scene, I'm going to quote two posts :
pixletwin wrote:
TPDpz wrote:-Were the other performers on the roadhouse performing with their own names? Why was Vedder using not his own? -> If the others used their real names then this should be an interpretation of not being part of reality.


Edward Louis Severson III IS Eddie Vedder's real name.


TheGum wrote:I haven't read past page 16 of this thread yet, but does anyone think "Billy" is Billy Zane? A dreamlike meta way for Audrey to pine for the one she loves wherever she has been trapped?


It's like Audrey is in a world behind representation, ie the fourth wall. It's not really something I believe Lynch would do, but there are strange recurrences pointing on that direction, like Gordon's dream where he's with the real Monica Belluci, and where he's like the real David Lynch, in Paris. "We're like the dreamer"... So maybe Audrey is outside the dream of Twin Peaks ?
"Who's the dreamer ?", asked Belluci looking at Cole, like she was looking at the dreamer himself, aka David Lynch. Maybe the last guest of the Roadhouse will be him singing, with auto-tune, "it's straaaaange, what love does !!!". :lol:
By the way, I was really thinking that Diane was going to kill Gordon when she was walking in the corridors (it reminded me of the scene where Gordon is seeing Laura Palmer while opening his door... like it was a warning for his own death to come). But it's like she CAN'T kill the dreamer. Maybe Gordon = The Giant = The Dreamer :roll:


Part 8 > Part 3 > Part 1 > Part 11 > Part 16 > Part 14 > Part 4 > Part 7 > Part 15 > Part 10 > Part 13 > Part 5 > Part 2 > Part 6 > Part 9 > Part 12
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby garethw » Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:51 am

Troubbble wrote:
garethw wrote:
Troubbble wrote:What do we make of the guy who dispatched Hutch and Chantal? Was that "random" and just an exercise in subverting expectations? Felt like maybe more, but I'm at a total loss.


Was he trying to get into the driveway at 1-1-9 lady's house?

I loved that whole scene, even if I am sad to see the end of Hutch and Chantal.


No idea! But after reading the AC Club review, at least one person agrees with me that the accountant was kind of curious--even if we're both wrong! Hahaha.

(I tend to like the observation someone shared here earlier, that they were undone by just the type of American citizen they were opining about in the previous episode.)


He's also the second accountant we've seen in unusual circumstances, the first being at the arm-wrestle at the Farm.
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby Novalis » Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:04 am

garethw wrote:
Troubbble wrote:
garethw wrote:
Was he trying to get into the driveway at 1-1-9 lady's house?

I loved that whole scene, even if I am sad to see the end of Hutch and Chantal.


No idea! But after reading the AC Club review, at least one person agrees with me that the accountant was kind of curious--even if we're both wrong! Hahaha.

(I tend to like the observation someone shared here earlier, that they were undone by just the type of American citizen they were opining about in the previous episode.)


He's also the second accountant we've seen in unusual circumstances, the first being at the arm-wrestle at the Farm.


That guy was the only one out of that motley assortment of people I actually felt terrified of. I think there's the influence of Breaking Bad on Lynch to consider. A certain kind of meticulous, methodical professional -- Mr. Todd, Kowalski [spl??]the accountant, the Farm's money-man -- are all somewhat akin to Cranston's portrayal of the chemistry teacher Walter White/Heisenberg: absolutely deadly lethal stone cold when pushed beyond a certain limit. Although I wasn't myself a big fan of BB, I can see the appeal of this character type.
As a matter of fact, 'Chalfont' was the name of the people that rented this space before. Two Chalfonts. Weird, huh?
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby garethw » Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:09 am

Novalis wrote:
garethw wrote:
Troubbble wrote:
No idea! But after reading the AC Club review, at least one person agrees with me that the accountant was kind of curious--even if we're both wrong! Hahaha.

(I tend to like the observation someone shared here earlier, that they were undone by just the type of American citizen they were opining about in the previous episode.)


He's also the second accountant we've seen in unusual circumstances, the first being at the arm-wrestle at the Farm.


That guy was the only one out of that motley assortment of people I actually felt terrified of. I think there's the influence of Breaking Bad on Lynch to consider. A certain kind of meticulous, methodical professional -- Mr. Todd, Kowalski [spl??]the accountant, the Farm's money-man -- are all somewhat akin to Cranston's portrayal of the chemistry teacher Walter White/Heisenberg: absolutely deadly lethal stone cold when pushed beyond a certain limit. Although I wasn't myself a big fan of BB, I can see the appeal of this character type.


Yeah, he's an interesting character.

Just realized - we had Ernie Niles, too.

"This town of Twin Peaks is just full of beautiful women... and menacing accountants!"
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby ringbearer » Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:15 am

He forgot the ring under the pillow
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby garethw » Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:16 am

FlyingSquirrel wrote:
Troubbble wrote:What do we make of the guy who dispatched Hutch and Chantal? Was that "random" and just an exercise in subverting expectations? Felt like maybe more, but I'm at a total loss.


Yeah, I think he's just a jerk with a gun. I'd call it road rage, except he wasn't exactly driving. Curb rage, maybe?


I loved that guy. "Ok, I will move car". I'd watch a spin-off entirely about him.
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby Troubbble » Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:17 am

MarFRELL wrote:One thing i haven't seen specifically referenced yet -

After tulpa Diane says her final "fuck you", and then it cuts to Mike, and then back to her... that weird face-stutter effect followed by her moving her lower jaw to the side! BRILLIANT effect, i was absolutely terrified by it! I had to rewatch it a couple of times, and i still don't know exactly what happened other than that it was scary as hell!


The effect as the tulpa disintegrated was (intentionally) done so unrealistically, it reminded me of an episode of Tim and Eric - which is sort of apropos, given the major influence Lynch seems to be for them.

So insane, yet it utterly worked for me.
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby Troubbble » Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:17 am

garethw wrote:
Troubbble wrote:
garethw wrote:
Was he trying to get into the driveway at 1-1-9 lady's house?

I loved that whole scene, even if I am sad to see the end of Hutch and Chantal.


No idea! But after reading the AC Club review, at least one person agrees with me that the accountant was kind of curious--even if we're both wrong! Hahaha.

(I tend to like the observation someone shared here earlier, that they were undone by just the type of American citizen they were opining about in the previous episode.)


He's also the second accountant we've seen in unusual circumstances, the first being at the arm-wrestle at the Farm.


Lynch's statement on the profession, perhaps? ;)
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby Trudy Chelgren » Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:20 am

It may be tenuous, but I think it's at least interesting that the first thing Cooper says upon awakening is a numerical figure (kind of); "One-hundred percent". Given how this seasons been obsessed with numbers and binary conspiracy.
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby TheGum » Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:22 am

Windom Earle says something like if someone were to be able to understand and control the Black Lodge he could re-order the entire world to his liking. I think that is exactly Doppelcoop's goal here, smarter than Earle with less hubris, the irony is that to fulfill this he had to escape the lodge, leaving Dale in there with 25 years to figure out how to work the Lodge himself. It seems as though Doppelcoop had the help of the Lodge (possibly, initially Mike and LMFAP seemed to be more aligned with Doppelcoop) initially but perhaps there was a break in allegiance at some point, leaving Doppelcoop with only the aid of the convenience store. This would give our Dale an advantage, as he's been able to learn and possibly eventually manipulate the Black Lodge, which clearly Doppelcoop is trying to avoid at this point.
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby Ross » Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:32 am

writersblock wrote:
Mr. Reindeer wrote:
BigEd wrote:You guys are giving me a headache. Mr. C told Richard that he was "25 years his senior." That just meant that he was 25 years older than Richard (it doesn't matter how old either one of them is). Now, since we know that TPTR is happening 25 years after the original series, that tells us that since Richard is Mr. C's son via Audrey rape in hospital (hopefully nobody is still arguing against that), then it all checks out. Richard is 25 years old. It doesn't matter what age Mr. C / Coop is. It's just math folks. :lol:


I think you're confused. Think about it this way.

David Lynch was born in 1946. His daughter Lula was born in 2012. That makes him 66 years her senior (i.e., he spent 66 years on Earth before she was born).

Now, if we were to retcon DKL's birth to 1956, he would only be 56 years her senior.

The parent's age is the key here; the kid's age is irrelevant.


I am having fun watching people getting confused by this :D

The 25 years line doesn't make sense. Cooper certainly wasn't 25 during season 1 and 2.
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby Novalis » Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:32 am

TheGum wrote:Windom Earle says something like if someone were to be able to understand and control the Black Lodge he could re-order the entire world to his liking. I think that is exactly Doppelcoop's goal here, smarter than Earle with less hubris, the irony is that to fulfill this he had to escape the lodge, leaving Dale in there with 25 years to figure out how to work the Lodge himself. It seems as though Doppelcoop had the help of the Lodge (possibly, initially Mike and LMFAP seemed to be more aligned with Doppelcoop) initially but perhaps there was a break in allegiance at some point, leaving Doppelcoop with only the aid of the convenience store. This would give our Dale an advantage, as he's been able to learn and possibly eventually manipulate the Black Lodge, which clearly Doppelcoop is trying to avoid at this point.


It's interesting that Coop is giving orders to MIKE/TOAM now, like when he instructs him to prepare another seed. MIKE seems a tad too servile in this scene, passively accepting the request. Or it could just be that during his 25yrs residence, Coop was awarded personality of the year (not hard in a world inhabited by a backwards speaking bogeyman and a short-circuiting tree... oh, and an infinitely sad Leland). Is there something we are assumed to have known? Is it because Kyle-damn-fine-Maclachlan is just so winningly charismatic that in every situation he is in, he emerges the natural leader? :P
As a matter of fact, 'Chalfont' was the name of the people that rented this space before. Two Chalfonts. Weird, huh?
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby Ross » Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:36 am

Panapaok wrote:
vicksvapor77 wrote:I'm surprised more people aren't more annoyed with the Cooper age discrepancy. Gahhhhhhhhh. I'll stew in my own pain haha.
Is there a discrepancy, though? Maybe the doppelganger was created when Cooper entered the Red Room. That'd make him 25 years older than Richard.

No it wouldn't. That would make them the SAME age - both 25!!
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