Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

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Troubbble
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby Troubbble » Tue Aug 29, 2017 3:18 pm

anthoto1 wrote:
Voltaire wrote:Why couldn't this have been done this in episode 6 or 9 or something!


Because this wasn't the story the authors wanted to tell, that's as simple as that.


Some people have been miserable about Dougie from the start and just can't forgive it or get past it. It's too bad.

The only problem I have with The Return is the fact that it has to end.
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TheGum
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby TheGum » Tue Aug 29, 2017 3:26 pm

So, the way Laura got sucked out of the black Lodge/waiting room in the first episode was very similar to both Naido and Diane. I'm thinking the Laura he saw in the Lodge was a tulpa. ("I'll see you again in 25 years" "when you see me again it won't be me") I think the real Laura is somewhere in the white lodge
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Voltaire
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby Voltaire » Tue Aug 29, 2017 3:46 pm

Troubbble wrote:
anthoto1 wrote:
Voltaire wrote:Why couldn't this have been done this in episode 6 or 9 or something!


Because this wasn't the story the authors wanted to tell, that's as simple as that.


Some people have been miserable about Dougie from the start and just can't forgive it or get past it. It's too bad.

The only problem I have with The Return is the fact that it has to end.


I love the return and I am very saddened that we most likely only have 2 more hours of new TP content left. Again, I love the show and this season. That being said I have disliked the mentally disabled Coop/Dougie storyline since probably the 3rd slot machine he hit. Again, I still love the show and that does not mean I can't view this one component critically. It just feels like a lot of stuff is getting crammed into the end of it that I can't help but think with 18 hours could have been spread out. I will reserve final judgement until I can watch all 18 hours in blocks instead of weekly.
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Gabriel
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby Gabriel » Tue Aug 29, 2017 4:16 pm

It was lovely to have Cooper back, but most of the Dougie storyline has been irritating. I feel that much of what we've sat through for the majority of this show has been a waste of my time. Now we have Cooper back, I feel much happier. It's tremendously disappointing that I've waited this long to see Cooper properly again. And damn! Kyle was awesome when Coop awakened. For all the disappointment of Twin Peaks: the Return, I find myself wanting a Twin Peaks season four with Coop and Harry back in action.
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FlyingSquirrel
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby FlyingSquirrel » Tue Aug 29, 2017 4:23 pm

Nighthawk wrote:
aldiboronti wrote:
Deep Thought wrote:
Just trying to stay concise. A lot to unpack here. As I mentioned a few posts ago, maybe all the Roadhouse scenes are from a parallel story, whether Audrey's or someone eleses.


Some of them must be real, such as James and Freddie's trouble with Renee's husband and friend. That had consequences which go outside the Roadhouse.


One common theme, running through all of the Roadhouse scenes that I can recall, is that nothing good ever happens in them. It's always filled with troubled people of all sorts. The notable exception was James' "Just You" performance and that one almost certainly wasn't real, much like Audrey's dance. I am still on the fence whether Freddie is real or a projection of James' mind. We will find out in just a few days. It's going to be difficult to watch that final installment, knowing that this is the end.


Freddie seems like he has to be real given that he was arrested for the fight, unless he's a tulpa too.

As for the Roadhouse scenes, I tend to think that they were real up until Audrey's in the most recent episode. What's puzzling about that is that if Audrey really has been out of it (whether comatose, delusional, or in the Lodges) ever since the bank explosion, that doesn't fit with the appearance of the MC and at least one of the crowd extras who have been in other Roadhouse scenes, because she wouldn't even know of them. OTOH, it's questionable as to how she'd know of "Just You" if that scene was taking place in her mind too, since we don't know of James ever playing it for anybody but Donna and Maddie. Unless multiple TP residents are having Roadhouse dreams/hallucinations?

If this were Lost Highway or Mulholland Drive, I could accept these puzzle-pieces-that-don't-quite-fit as just Lynchian dream logic and not try to figure it out past that, but Twin Peaks has always had a more linear, literal narrative structure even when the content of the narrative has turned pretty bizarre.
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FlyingSquirrel
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby FlyingSquirrel » Tue Aug 29, 2017 4:31 pm

Gabriel wrote:It was lovely to have Cooper back, but most of the Dougie storyline has been irritating. I feel that much of what we've sat through for the majority of this show has been a waste of my time. Now we have Cooper back, I feel much happier. It's tremendously disappointing that I've waited this long to see Cooper properly again. And damn! Kyle was awesome when Coop awakened. For all the disappointment of Twin Peaks: the Return, I find myself wanting a Twin Peaks season four with Coop and Harry back in action.


I actually came to care about Dougie, Janey-E, and Sonny Jim more than I thought I would. What I don't feel especially invested in is the more conventional crime narrative surrounding the Mitchum brothers, Duncan Todd, Ike the Spike, and whatever all this had to do with the insurance company. Aesthetically, it has a very different feel from what I'd come to expect from TP, and none of the new characters are really that interesting.

Not that Lynch hasn't digressed into this sort of material before - I was usually bored by all the scheming surrounding the Packards and their property in the original series, and there were stretches of Wild At Heart and Lost Highway that felt like they could have been in plenty of other crime movies. But I don't think it's what he does best, and it's certainly not what draws me to his work.
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby Ragnell » Tue Aug 29, 2017 4:33 pm

FlyingSquirrel wrote:
Nighthawk wrote:
aldiboronti wrote:
Some of them must be real, such as James and Freddie's trouble with Renee's husband and friend. That had consequences which go outside the Roadhouse.


One common theme, running through all of the Roadhouse scenes that I can recall, is that nothing good ever happens in them. It's always filled with troubled people of all sorts. The notable exception was James' "Just You" performance and that one almost certainly wasn't real, much like Audrey's dance. I am still on the fence whether Freddie is real or a projection of James' mind. We will find out in just a few days. It's going to be difficult to watch that final installment, knowing that this is the end.


Freddie seems like he has to be real given that he was arrested for the fight, unless he's a tulpa too.

As for the Roadhouse scenes, I tend to think that they were real up until Audrey's in the most recent episode. What's puzzling about that is that if Audrey really has been out of it (whether comatose, delusional, or in the Lodges) ever since the bank explosion, that doesn't fit with the appearance of the MC and at least one of the crowd extras who have been in other Roadhouse scenes, because she wouldn't even know of them. OTOH, it's questionable as to how she'd know of "Just You" if that scene was taking place in her mind too, since we don't know of James ever playing it for anybody but Donna and Maddie. Unless multiple TP residents are having Roadhouse dreams/hallucinations?

If this were Lost Highway or Mulholland Drive, I could accept these puzzle-pieces-that-don't-quite-fit as just Lynchian dream logic and not try to figure it out past that, but Twin Peaks has always had a more linear, literal narrative structure even when the content of the narrative has turned pretty bizarre.


Yeah, but part of that linear narrative is that the dreamworld is a dimension you can physically enter, and it's a place where people interact across time, and it is a place where people gain knowledge of events they haven't witnessed. Whenever anyone in Twin Peaks dreams, they are arguably connecting to the Lodge, so Audrey may not even be hearing what people in the hospital are saying. She might be having psychic dreams.
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Major Briggs
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby Major Briggs » Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:09 pm

Which biggest surprises the two-part finale holds for us? Vote! :)

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BigEd
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby BigEd » Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:27 pm

DeepBlueSeed wrote:And then I remembered Dougie had been electrocuted, and wasn't going to be able to 'fix' them. Ah well.


You can't get electrocuted from 120 volts even if you stick your tongue in a light socket while standing in a bathtub. This was the "fire, that's like modern electricity" that he was receiving.

(Please nobody try this at home just to prove BigEd wrong. This is just a bit of hyperbole to illustrate a point. I don't personally know anybody who has stuck their tongue in a light socket while standing in a bathtub, so I really don't know what would happen)
Last edited by BigEd on Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ragnell
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby Ragnell » Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:42 pm

BigEd wrote:
DeepBlueSeed wrote:And then I remembered Dougie had been electrocuted, and wasn't going to be able to 'fix' them. Ah well.


You can't get electrocuted from 120 volts even if you stick your tongue in a light socket while standing in a bathtub. This was the "fire, that's like modern electricity" that he was receiving.


Just correcting you for safety: its not voltage, its current (amperage) that kills you. 15 amps is enough but to die from it he'd have to had made a circuit where it passes through his heart. Voltage only matters when high enough to burn you, which is why there's a warning for high voltage.

So yeah, it was a magic shock he got.
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raltenbach
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby raltenbach » Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:51 pm

A few notes about the "it's all Audrey's dream" quasi-theory:

In the pilot episode from Season 1, we hear the score playing as we move through the Great Northern. The shot lands on Audrey swaying slightly. Ben enters the room and tells her to "turn off that racket" (paraphrasing here) and he turns off the radio, stopping the score. In this episode we hear the actual name of a piece of the score, namely "Audrey's Dance" and the song is played. Following the more bizarre "meta" theories out there, her character has nearly broken the fourth wall, so to speak, putting her on the same level as the audience or even the writers. "The dreamer who dreams" adds even more credibility to the "meta" idea as well. Now I am NOT saying that Twin Peaks is all an elaborate dream of one Ms. Audrey Horne, not at all.

I'm saying it is all an elaborate dream of Sherilyn Fenn. The way her character has been acting toward Charlie very much mirrors the way Sherilyn was posting on Twitter during the lead up to this season. And it will turn out that the "Billy" she loves more than Charlie is actually Billy Zane.

If this proves correct, I'll eat my hat.
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TheGum
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby TheGum » Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:54 pm

Ok I gotta gripe on all of y'all whining about how "unrealistic" or "ridiculous" Coopers snapping out of it was, like, doy. Of course it was, that was what made it great! And obviously Lynch and Frost knew that as well, and essentially scream that at us with the limo scene! Come on, it was pure Lynchian humor, in its best form!
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Hester Prynne
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby Hester Prynne » Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:55 pm

TheGum wrote:So, the way Laura got sucked out of the black Lodge/waiting room in the first episode was very similar to both Naido and Diane. I'm thinking the Laura he saw in the Lodge was a tulpa. ("I'll see you again in 25 years" "when you see me again it won't be me") I think the real Laura is somewhere in the white lodge


Starting to wonder if the "real" Laura Palmer was actually a tulpa.
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raltenbach
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby raltenbach » Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:10 pm

Twice that I can recall we've seen a discrepancy between the message Dopplecoop has sent and Diane has received.

"THE CONVERSATION AROUND THE DINNER TABLE IS LIVELY" vs. "The conversation around the dinner table is lively." (not all caps, and suddenly punctuated)

":-) ALL." vs. ":-) ALL" (first we see it the same way it was sent when Diane first receives the message, but when she sees it in the hotel room with the rest of the Blue Rose team the period disappears)

Could this be a clue that we have been seeing two different Dianes this whole time?
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TheGum
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby TheGum » Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:13 pm

Hester Prynne wrote:
TheGum wrote:So, the way Laura got sucked out of the black Lodge/waiting room in the first episode was very similar to both Naido and Diane. I'm thinking the Laura he saw in the Lodge was a tulpa. ("I'll see you again in 25 years" "when you see me again it won't be me") I think the real Laura is somewhere in the white lodge


Starting to wonder if the "real" Laura Palmer was actually a tulpa.


Same. The more I think about it my mind gets all twisty.
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