Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Discussion of each of the 18 parts of Twin Peaks the Return

Moderators: Annie, BookhouseBoyBob, Ross, Jerry Horne, Brad D

User avatar
BigEd
Posts: 346
Joined: Sat May 27, 2017 9:50 pm

Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby BigEd » Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:35 pm

thedarktrees wrote:Holy, it's damn tulpa mania in here now. Cooper's a tulpa! Laura's a tulpa! Audrey's a tulpa! Richard's a tulpa! The whole town is a tulpa! The entire SHOW is a tulpa! Yikes. I hope the show itself doesn't go down any absurd paths with this. I thought the Diane tulpa was an interesting twist, but this could get silly fast.


Amen. We've seen the first (Dougie) and last (Diane) tulpas. Lynch/Frost aren't going to allow this thing to become silly.
User avatar
Mr. Reindeer
Posts: 2855
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:09 pm

Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:54 pm

Random thoughts after a rewatch...

Probably just a coincidence, but in the last shot of Richard exploding, something that looks a lot like the little gold "seed" balls falls downward from where he is, off the rock to the ground. It's probably just a stray spark, but it looks more solid and rounded than the other sparks to me.

So, for all those bitching about the "product placement" that isn't actually product placement, we finally got a lazy knock-off/lookalike product just like back in the '90s TV days: Chantal is eating "Crunch-zzz" with a blatant Cheetos ripoff design.

The end of the Hutchenses reminded me a lot of the first scene with Mark Pellegrino's assassin character in MD: an assassin (or duo of them) encounters a Murphy's Law scenario involving run-ins with innocent civilians that ends up devolving into disaster and absurdist dark comedy. This scene wasn't as brilliant in the one in MD, but I love when DKL plays up the Absurd Mystery of the Strange Forces of Existence. Not every storyline pays off, just as in real life.

I'm slightly more ambivalent about the end of Richard. Unlike the Hutchenses, who were silly sidebar characters from the get-go, Richard has serious implications for several of our main characters which weren't really paid off meaningfully...and, at his best-worst self in certain scenes, he was possibly the most promising villain on the new show (and arguably the most interesting new character overall). The death scene itself was moody and nicely executed, but I'm very curious to see how Richard (the circumstances of his conception and his shitty actions while alive) play into whatever is coming in the finale. Cooper has a lot to deal with regarding the last 25 years and what his Doppel has done...and Audrey is pretty clearly headed for some form of reckoning. I can't imagine Richard not being a part of all this, even if he's only mentioned as opposed to seen. Ben's reference that Richard didn't have a father seems significant, and I wonder if Dale will somehow feel some guilt. Was he aware of the Doppel's actions while in the Lodge?

Randall Headley's verbal abuse of the poor hapless Wilson is hysterical (calling him a son of a bitch, completely unprovoked).

Audrey has a ring on her right middle finger while dancing that bears a resemblance to the Owl Cave ring -- tough to get a good luck since the lighting is dim and she's constantly moving her arms. Was she wearing this in the earlier scenes?

Also in the column of of "likely a coincidence": Hutch mentions a Sammy he owed money to who died; Frank had Sammy look at Doris's dad's car.

The loss of Tulpa-Diane (and the potential significance of Diane as a meta-concept if the Dianagrams theory holds water) got me picturing W@H-era Dern in the role during the original series. God, she was young. Which in turn got me thinking...I'm not one to take the tie-in books as gospel (I view them as soft canon -- happy when the show brings them in as full canon, but also cheerfully favor the filmed material as the "reality" when there are contradictions). But it's worth noting, since this episode appeared to canonize some version of Coop/Diane's consensual romantic encounter from MLMT, that Laura Dern would have been 10 in 1977 when Coop was first assigned Diane in MLMT!

Did Albert even have a line in this Part? He's become positively taciturn! Who'da thought?

I like Vedder's song more and more as I listen to it on loop. As I said, the tune isn't particularly Peaksy, but the lyrics bear nicely on the themes of aging and loss of identity. Dean Hurley said Vedder wrote the song specifically for the series, and he apparently hasn't released it for download or sale, so I wonder why he released it as a youtube streaming video so many months before the show aired? Woulda been cool if the series itself was the "world premiere." (Hurley also noted that Dern was the one who introduced DKL to Vedder and suggested him for the Roadhouse.)

Also a slightly weird point: the MC announces Severson, who does one song, then cedes the stage to "Audrey's Dance." So he dropped by the Roadhouse to play a one-song set!
Last edited by Mr. Reindeer on Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
tresojos
Posts: 80
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:54 pm

Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby tresojos » Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:56 pm

tammy is obviously a tulpa
donna madonna mañana fofana osama bin laden hayward
vicksvapor77
Posts: 582
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:51 pm

Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby vicksvapor77 » Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:05 pm

Mr. Reindeer wrote:Audrey has a ring on her right middle finger while dancing that bears a resemblance to the Owl Cave ring -- tough to get a good luck since the lighting is dim and she's constantly moving her arms. Was she wearing this in the earlier scenes?


Yes she does. What's odd is this heart ring on her left hand from the EW photo shoot hasn't been seen yet as far as I can tell and the actors were supposed to be 100% in character and were with wardrobe and jewelry up till this point.

EDIT: Used smaller file size below for ease of page loading. Full size image here: https://ewedit.files.wordpress.com/2017/03/000250653hr.jpg
Image
Last edited by vicksvapor77 on Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:18 pm, edited 3 times in total.
User avatar
Mr. Reindeer
Posts: 2855
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:09 pm

Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:09 pm

vicksvapor77 wrote:
Mr. Reindeer wrote:Audrey has a ring on her right middle finger while dancing that bears a resemblance to the Owl Cave ring -- tough to get a good luck since the lighting is dim and she's constantly moving her arms. Was she wearing this in the earlier scenes?


Yes she does. What's odd is this heart ring on her left hand from the EW photo shoot hasn't been seen yet as far as I can tell and the actors were supposed to be 100% in character and were with wardrobe and jewelry up till this point.

Image


Hmm. Strikes me as a Sherilyn touch for the photo -- maybe with the blessing of L/F since they presumably micromanaged what was seen. The EW photos were taken after shooting wrapped, correct? Or am I wrong about that?
vicksvapor77
Posts: 582
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:51 pm

Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby vicksvapor77 » Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:14 pm

Mr. Reindeer wrote:
vicksvapor77 wrote:
Mr. Reindeer wrote:Audrey has a ring on her right middle finger while dancing that bears a resemblance to the Owl Cave ring -- tough to get a good luck since the lighting is dim and she's constantly moving her arms. Was she wearing this in the earlier scenes?


Yes she does. What's odd is this heart ring on her left hand from the EW photo shoot hasn't been seen yet as far as I can tell and the actors were supposed to be 100% in character and were with wardrobe and jewelry up till this point.


Hmm. Strikes me as a Sherilyn touch for the photo -- maybe with the blessing of L/F since they presumably micromanaged what was seen. The EW photos were taken after shooting wrapped, correct? Or am I wrong about that?


That is correct! Shot in February of this year. Linked below is an officially released screencap of Sherilyn from part 12 where you can see the rings she is currently wearing. I suppose the heart ring could show up in future "white space" scenes and could even be part of the plotline! I'm gonna laugh if this ring is of major significance and I just inadvertently spoiled it with an EW photo shoot! Haha. It's not as if this show is unfamiliar with significant rings...

http://images.imagebam.com/62/70/4b/eedffe574995583.jpg
Last edited by vicksvapor77 on Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Firewalkwithme91
Posts: 82
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:20 pm

Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby Firewalkwithme91 » Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:18 pm

Could the Sam that Hutch mentions be the same guy that watched the glass box in the beginning? Maybe Mr. C paid Tracy to seduce him because he figured their sexual encounter would make the mother show up in the glass box.

That reminds me: Any idea who the bald guy is that stands beside Mr. C on the picture that Tammy showed Gordon?
User avatar
garethw
Posts: 436
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:48 pm
Location: Deep River

Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby garethw » Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:26 pm

Saturn's child wrote:
garethw wrote:
ThumbsUp wrote:Hutch: "You hear that bird this morning?"
Chantal: "Sure as shit did."

Thoughts? Owl?


Meadow Lark?


Whippoorwill?
Whatever it was, I took it as a foreshadowing of their deaths, along with Chantal down to her last pack of chips & Hutch's brief story about the guy who died.


Dammit. I gone messed up.

Apparently what I really meant was "Beweck's Wren" - the bird that appears in the original series titles, as the music starts up. It seemed appropriate that they'd have heard that shortly before they're dispatched and the original hero returns to the same music.

I think i said Meadow Lark because that may be what was called for in the original Northwest Passage screenplay.
sewhite2000
Posts: 249
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:17 am

Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby sewhite2000 » Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:56 pm

tresojos wrote:tammy is obviously a tulpa


I think Tammy is just really wooden, runway model acting! But I will agree, she does often seem like an artificial being beamed in from another place to participate in the proceedings.
writersblock
Posts: 118
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:03 am

Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby writersblock » Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:48 am

HagbardCeline wrote:
writersblock wrote:I think Dougie had the ring because it was supposed to be DoppelCoop's "sigil" to wear upon return... but he made Dougie wear it to give the impression it was him...

The Lodge seemed to think they were bringing the correct person back... and then, immediately, realised they had made a mistake.

I think the ring was just used to make them think he was the Doppelganger...


I think Dougie had the ring on because DoppelCoop's plan was to have the assassins at Rancho Rosa kill Dougie while he was wearing the ring, and make him go back to the lodge immediately, PREVENTING GoodCoop from coming out. Because GoodCoop came out, Dougie was forced into the Lodge a different way.


The way I see it... if Dougie went into the lodge before the allotted time, they would have discovered he was a copy before it was time for Cooper to leave and then the Lodge would have tried to wrench him back like they did in Episode 3 and possibly succeed... he nearly went through, anyway. Dougie was a distraction! Then the time was past and Evil Coop was still free.

Again, this is all just my take. I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong... this is just me trying to justify my line of thought :D
User avatar
DeepBlueSeed
Posts: 258
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:32 am
Location: London, UK
Contact:

Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby DeepBlueSeed » Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:48 am

Novalis wrote:
TheGum wrote:Windom Earle says something like if someone were to be able to understand and control the Black Lodge he could re-order the entire world to his liking. I think that is exactly Doppelcoop's goal here, smarter than Earle with less hubris, the irony is that to fulfill this he had to escape the lodge, leaving Dale in there with 25 years to figure out how to work the Lodge himself. It seems as though Doppelcoop had the help of the Lodge (possibly, initially Mike and LMFAP seemed to be more aligned with Doppelcoop) initially but perhaps there was a break in allegiance at some point, leaving Doppelcoop with only the aid of the convenience store. This would give our Dale an advantage, as he's been able to learn and possibly eventually manipulate the Black Lodge, which clearly Doppelcoop is trying to avoid at this point.


It's interesting that Coop is giving orders to MIKE/TOAM now, like when he instructs him to prepare another seed. MIKE seems a tad too servile in this scene, passively accepting the request. Or it could just be that during his 25yrs residence, Coop was awarded personality of the year (not hard in a world inhabited by a backwards speaking bogeyman and a short-circuiting tree... oh, and an infinitely sad Leland). Is there something we are assumed to have known? Is it because Kyle-damn-fine-Maclachlan is just so winningly charismatic that in every situation he is in, he emerges the natural leader? :P


That'd make a certain degree of sense, considering how much control Mr C seems to have got over people over the last 25 years.
"The stories that I wanna tell you about... "
writersblock
Posts: 118
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:03 am

Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby writersblock » Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:49 am

Nighthawk wrote:
writersblock wrote:
sewhite2000 wrote:
But Ray was killed and had to have a ring to go into the Lodge? Are there different rules for tulpas and humans?


I would imagine so.

And remember Ray was supposed to slip the ring onto Doppelcoop - that's why he had it. Sending Ray to the Lodge was his way of telling them they had failed?

I said in previous threads - my take is that if you die, you might go to the lodge (depending on your circumstances) ... if you die with the ring on it guarantees it


I must admit, I am totally perplexed as to what the ring actually does. It's been used in so many different contexts and it seems to be multi-purpose depending on circumstances.


Probably easier to just mystically wave our arms and say "cursed ring... Wooooo!" - that's what I've been doing.
writersblock
Posts: 118
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:03 am

Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby writersblock » Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:54 am

Nighthawk wrote:
aldiboronti wrote:
Deep Thought wrote:
Just trying to stay concise. A lot to unpack here. As I mentioned a few posts ago, maybe all the Roadhouse scenes are from a parallel story, whether Audrey's or someone eleses.


Some of them must be real, such as James and Freddie's trouble with Renee's husband and friend. That had consequences which go outside the Roadhouse.


One common theme, running through all of the Roadhouse scenes that I can recall, is that nothing good ever happens in them. It's always filled with troubled people of all sorts. The notable exception was James' "Just You" performance and that one almost certainly wasn't real, much like Audrey's dance. I am still on the fence whether Freddie is real or a projection of James' mind. We will find out in just a few days. It's going to be difficult to watch that final installment, knowing that this is the end.


Remember Chad acknowledged the Green GLove. So if Freddie isn't real, Jame is at least wearing it :D
Rhodes
Posts: 184
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:35 am

Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby Rhodes » Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:27 am

thedarktrees wrote:Holy, it's damn tulpa mania in here now. Cooper's a tulpa! Laura's a tulpa! Audrey's a tulpa! Richard's a tulpa! The whole town is a tulpa! The entire SHOW is a tulpa! Yikes. I hope the show itself doesn't go down any absurd paths with this. I thought the Diane tulpa was an interesting twist, but this could get silly fast.


Agreed.
Rik Renault
Posts: 86
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:41 am

Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby Rik Renault » Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:42 am

Hester Prynne wrote:
ThumbsUp wrote:
I'm the Muffin wrote:
Could the Fireman in episode 8 have been creating Laura's tulpa?


Maybe! Does one need a bit of DNA from the source material though? I think we can definitely expect Laura to show up in some capacity though for the finale.


Oh my gosh, yes! The Giant created her tulpa, and he sent her to the waiting room until it was time for her to appear in the story from behind those red theatre curtains! The White Lodge is a theatre, she is created from the Fireman's mind like an artistic creation, and she is sent to the Red Room to wait behind the theatre curtains until it is time for her scene. Sorry - just picked up on the theatre connection between the White Lodge and Red Room.


I really like this red curtains/theatre connection actually and I've never thought of it before either!

I'm getting a bit tired of the feverish "EVERYONE'S A TULPA!" game, but we've only got a few more days (maybe questions will linger after) to not know these things so might as well embrace it :lol: .

Mr. Reindeer wrote:Random thoughts after a rewatch...

Probably just a coincidence, but in the last shot of Richard exploding, something that looks a lot like the little gold "seed" balls falls downward from where he is, off the rock to the ground. It's probably just a stray spark, but it looks more solid and rounded than the other sparks to me.


Spotted this on rewatch too, but I'm 85% certain it's just a spark. I think how Richard features in the next 2 parts is going to be very interesting. I don't think we'll 'see' him again and I can't make up my mind if I'm satisfied with his arc as it stands; but how his presence in the show interacts with Good Coop, Audrey and perhaps Ben's arcs will affect this. Richard by far was the most interesting new character (and the best new actor IMO) and I was a little disappointed that he didn't feature so much in the last few episodes. His story just feels a little truncated to me, but I'm reserving judgment until Monday.

Return to “Parts Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 15 guests