Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby TheGum » Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:52 am

Denise's Pieces wrote:
TheGum wrote:
-Here's a thought: does the new roadhouse make ANY sense whatsoever in the context of Twin Peaks? It's in a small mountain town, packed with young people, AND national acts. Dream logic obviously factors in a bit, but maybe it factors in A LOT here.



For a town of 51,000 people it absolutely makes sense. The combined population of the 'Real' Twin Peaks, Snoqualmie and North Bend, WA, is around 22-23k people. There's a bunch of bars showcasing live music. Not nightly, but still...
For the fictional LOCATION of Twin Peaks, out in the boonies 2 hours from Spokane? Eh, not so much. The closest Real town to the fictional location is Metaline Falls, WA, with a bustling population of around 413 (that's including the nearby town of Metaline).


Lynch and Frost have repeatedly mentioned the sign as an error, forced by ABC who thought a town of 5100 people would be too small to get viewers attention. They reference this mistake with a brief joke/refer in the gazette in TSHoTP
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby Troubbble » Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:03 am

Manwith wrote:
FlyingSquirrel wrote:(On the other other hand, she shouldn't be asking who Jeffries is in Episode 4 if she'd already reviewed the dossier, so... :? )


Maybe she just asked it for conversation sake. The full story was classified and she couldn't read it.

Oddly, in FWWM Gordon implies Jeffries is a *famous* missing FBI Agent people learn about during their Agent training. This is also a bit inconsistent with the new show where it seems he isn't well known. Per the FWWM script Gordon said " COOPER, MEET THE LONG LOST PHILLIP JEFFRIES. YOU MAY HAVE HEARD OF HIM AT THE ACADEMY."

I imagine the idea in FWWM is he's famous the way D.B. Cooper is in real life, though the "blue rose" aspect may not be famous. The new show seems to have dropped that idea. (I guess it's possible he's famous for something other than being missing.)


Saying "you may have heard of him" is a far cry from saying that his disappearance is famed in FBI circles, or that prospective agents are taught about him at the academy. That's a leap.

Have no problem with Tammy asking about Phillip, and if there's an inconsistency with the Secret History - well, what else is new?
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby Denise's Pieces » Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:13 am

TheGum wrote:
Denise's Pieces wrote:
TheGum wrote:
-Here's a thought: does the new roadhouse make ANY sense whatsoever in the context of Twin Peaks? It's in a small mountain town, packed with young people, AND national acts. Dream logic obviously factors in a bit, but maybe it factors in A LOT here.



For a town of 51,000 people it absolutely makes sense. The combined population of the 'Real' Twin Peaks, Snoqualmie and North Bend, WA, is around 22-23k people. There's a bunch of bars showcasing live music. Not nightly, but still...
For the fictional LOCATION of Twin Peaks, out in the boonies 2 hours from Spokane? Eh, not so much. The closest Real town to the fictional location is Metaline Falls, WA, with a bustling population of around 413 (that's including the nearby town of Metaline).


Lynch and Frost have repeatedly mentioned the sign as an error, forced by ABC who thought a town of 5100 people would be too small to get viewers attention. They reference this mistake with a brief joke/refer in the gazette in TSHoTP


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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby TheGum » Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:24 am

Speaking about episode 2.1 made me want to watch it, and there is a lot of relevance to the new season here.

This is of course the first time we see the giant, and there's lots of exploration of the concept of doubles (they discuss Laura's double life, lelands hair turns white, which I always saw as a clue to his double life, and there's the droolcup/giant connection). Mike returns. And then there's the scene with Jacoby...

"The necklace, a divided heart. Laura was ... was in fact, well she was living a double life. Two people."
He also mentions the scorched engine oil, which I believe is the first time we hear about that.

Also Major Briggs' vision of Bobby is extremely relevant. Much of his description matches the White Lodge we've seen.
"A vision I ... had in my sleep last night. As distinguished from a dream which is mere ... sorting and cataloging of the day’s events by the subconscious. This was a vision. As clear as a mountain stream. The mind revealing itself to itself. In my vision I was on a veranda of a ... vast estate, a palazzo of some fantastic proportion. There seemed to emanate from it ... a light from within this ... gleaming, radiant marble. I’d known this place. I ... I in fact had been born and raised there. This was my first return. A reunion with the ... deepest well springs of my being.
Wandering about I noticed happily that the house had been immaculately maintained. There’d been added a number of additional rooms but ... in a way that blended so seamlessly with the original construction one would never detect any difference. Returning to the house’s grand foyer, came a knock on the door. My son was standing there."

I feel like this could easily be the white lodge. I believe the mention of being born and raised there was not literal, just in the vision.

Later, when Audrey is essentially praying to Agent Cooper the giant appears to him again, almost as if she summoned or triggered him to appear. I feel like this has significance.

Episode ends with Gersten playing piano. Yeow, did she go off the rails.
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Strawberry » Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:24 am

Ross wrote:
Mr. Strawberry wrote:If Richard's father was born in 1973, then he would be nearly 25 years his senior. That's one small detail about his arrest report that seems to "make sense" in light of what he said to Richard regarding their age difference. The report listed his birthdate as August 15, 1973.

It was regarded as a goof here on the forums, yet it's hard to imagine that we might recognize an error of that nature, while the entire production team would not. It's rather glaring, wouldn't you say? Why his birth date would be identical to William Hastings, and why it would differ from Dale's, though, is just about impossible for me to make sense of, if these are not errors.

That's not true either. If Cooper was born in 1973 he'd have been 15 during the original series. And would be 15 years older than Richard...

Right but that's assuming that this person is actually Cooper. What I'm getting is there's a possibility that these aren't errors, but rather indications that the story is nowhere near as straightforward as it initially appears to be. No idea what it could point to, but something is amiss (or the production team really rushed these details).

Example: This man was born in 1973, his son was born in 1998, and the scenes involving them are taking place circa 2023.

One way this would be possible is if there are two different realities, with one for each "side" of Dale, as if this "Doppelganger" is not just an evil twin or bad half of Cooper, but rather a whole other reality that manifested itself when he failed the test in the lodge.

Another way this could be possible is if the events we've been watching are not occurring chronologically, but I'm not sure how that would all shake out. I'm ready to be pleasantly surprised by something -- anything -- beyond "get the baddie" so I'm reaching.

Either someone majorly dropped the ball in production or we're in for some really odd twist.
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby yaxomoxay » Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:32 am

Mr. Strawberry wrote:Another way this could be possible is if the events we've been watching are not occurring chronologically, but I'm not sure how that would all shake out. I'm ready to be pleasantly surprised by something -- anything -- beyond "get the baddie" so I'm reaching.

Either someone majorly dropped the ball in production or we're in for some really odd twist.


How would two realities explain Hutch and Chantal?


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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Strawberry » Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:42 am

yaxomoxay wrote:
Mr. Strawberry wrote:Another way this could be possible is if the events we've been watching are not occurring chronologically, but I'm not sure how that would all shake out. I'm ready to be pleasantly surprised by something -- anything -- beyond "get the baddie" so I'm reaching.

Either someone majorly dropped the ball in production or we're in for some really odd twist.


How would two realities explain Hutch and Chantal?

They do complicate things somewhat, however there's no direct tie between when the shootout on Lancelot Court takes place and when the scene with Mr. C and Richard takes place. This at least opens the door to speculation about chronologically out of order stories. I'm hoping for a surprise injection of added layers / headfuckery.
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby TheGum » Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:49 am

Also first appearance of Mrs. Tremond
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:57 am

Manwith wrote:Oddly, in FWWM Gordon implies Jeffries is a *famous* missing FBI Agent people learn about during their Agent training. This is also a bit inconsistent with the new show where it seems he isn't well known. Per the FWWM script Gordon said " COOPER, MEET THE LONG LOST PHILLIP JEFFRIES. YOU MAY HAVE HEARD OF HIM AT THE ACADEMY."

I imagine the idea in FWWM is he's famous the way D.B. Cooper is in real life, though the "blue rose" aspect may not be famous. The new show seems to have dropped that idea. (I guess it's possible he's famous for something other than being missing.)


I think he's famous for something else. He went missing two years before his reappearance; Coop was an active agent four years before the original show, which is when Caroline was murdered. So Jeffries disappeared after Coop graduated.
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby FlyingSquirrel » Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:02 pm

Denise's Pieces wrote:
TheGum wrote:
-Here's a thought: does the new roadhouse make ANY sense whatsoever in the context of Twin Peaks? It's in a small mountain town, packed with young people, AND national acts. Dream logic obviously factors in a bit, but maybe it factors in A LOT here.



For a town of 51,000 people it absolutely makes sense. The combined population of the 'Real' Twin Peaks, Snoqualmie and North Bend, WA, is around 22-23k people. There's a bunch of bars showcasing live music. Not nightly, but still...
For the fictional LOCATION of Twin Peaks, out in the boonies 2 hours from Spokane? Eh, not so much. The closest Real town to the fictional location is Metaline Falls, WA, with a bustling population of around 413 (that's including the nearby town of Metaline).


The Roadhouse seems to punch above its weight in terms of the acts that come there, though it's not unheard-of for well-established acts to do small venues from time to time. Though to be honest, I didn't know that "Edward Severson" was Eddie Vedder's real name (I assumed it was just a made-up name because they *didn't* want to give the impression that he was playing himself), nor had I heard of any of the acts featured there other than Nine Inch Nails, ZZ Top, or Rebekah Del Rio prior to their appearance on TP.

This may be something where it's best to just grant them some artistic license. Trying to parse out the logic here could lead us down some pretty weird rabbit holes. I mean, if Nine Inch Nails and Rebekah Del Rio exist in the Twin Peaks universe, then were Lost Highway and Mulholland Drive publicly released movies in the Twin Peaks universe? And if so, what does that mean about the characters of Red, Janey-E, and Duncan Todd (who are played by performers who appeared in LH or MD)? But I definitely don't think Lynch and Frost are intending anything along those lines or that they want us to think about those questions as viewers.
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby wxray » Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:35 pm

What big acts?

Nine Inch Nails did not play. The Nine Inch Nails played.

Eddie Vedder didn't play. Edward Severson played.

:)

Yes, grant some artistic license.

Oh, and as far as the slight name problems. This kind of thing was running rampant in the 80s. A whole bunch of 50s and 60s nostagia fake acts were masquerading as the real thing by playing little stunts like this. It was a real mess for a while. Amazingly, these big acts showed up in nowhere places. I got to see the "Fake" Coasters ("Yakkity Yak") for example.
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby TheGum » Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:38 pm

I get all that, I'm not nitpicking to a "25 years your senior" degree 8) , Just pointing out that in light of the Audrey scene, and the size that Twin Peaks supposedly is, not to mention the remoteness, that it's a possibility we should consider
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby AgentEcho » Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:49 pm

I doubt we will get any explicit clarity on what has been real or not at The Roadhouse (other than Audrey's Dance). But I'm definitely questioning the objective reality of James' performance now (it may have been in the future but Renee has never otherwise seemed enamored by him). And I think anyone who has trouble with the credibility of the Roadhouse booking big acts can probably question the objective reality of all those scenes.
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby DangerMo » Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:02 pm

Mr. Reindeer wrote:Something weird about the tulpa concept...


Suddenly, a thought crossed my mind... What is Tulpa almost an anagram of?
PAUL!
And David Lynch is friends with MacCartney. Coincidence? I think not...
"The" Paul MacCartney on Abbey Road's cover is a Tulpa, and Paul actually IS dead! :wink:

Great episode, so f****ing pumped for the big finale. Already looking forward to whatever Lynch has to offer in terms of movie or TV stuff next, there has to be more of something, I'm afraid of going cold turkey sometime next month....
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby Gabriel » Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:09 pm

DangerMo wrote:Suddenly, a thought crossed my mind... What is Tulpa almost an anagram of?
PAUL!
And David Lynch is friends with MacCartney.


Paul Atreides. Dougie even has Paul's hairstyle from the beginning of Dune. ;)

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