Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

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wxray
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby wxray » Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:14 am

Cappy wrote:I'm curious to see Cooper's reaction to the existence of Richard Horne. I wouldn't be surprised to see Coop use the "seed" to create a good Richard and give his (sorta) son a chance at a decent life, while Coop returns to Janey-E and Sonny Jim.

I mean I would rather Coop just retire to Twin Peaks and send a Dougie down to Las Vegas, but I don't know if Cooper has it in him to leave a family, even if it's only one he's known for a week. And I imagine him feeling a sense of responsibility for the Richard situation, and attempt to remedy it.

Who knows, maybe Coop will move his new family up to Twin Peaks?


Sonny Jim would have more than a playset to play on. He'd also have the woods to play in. Every boys dream, especially one living in the desert. ... Except in Twin Peaks, the woods are a nightmare.
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby Twin Peaks Podcast » Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:17 am

Mark my words. Cooper is gonna give up his spot in the real world to Laura Palmer and he'll go back to the lodge forever.

Spoiler:
Where maybe he'll turn into a teapot.
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby cgs027 » Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:17 am

wxray wrote:
Wally Brando wrote:The original series was full of continuity errors and other mistakes, it really had never been as meticulously pieced together as some people seen to think, so I'm not sure why (some) people seem convinced that all the cock-ups this time around are intentional.

Yep. And we know DKL filmed all this and then went into a mega editing process. He has been firm that there were no pick-ups or re-shoots. Given the budget, and lack of re-shoots, crap is bound to happen. You can only do so many head replacements or whatever before you exhaust your options with digital manipulation too. A budget is a budget.

I'm trying to let them go as much as I can, but some are a bit distracting.


Yep. All the more distracting in this case due to the fact that the script had been completed prior to shooting (although I'm sure there were plenty of moments of Lynch going off script) unlike seasons 1 and 2, where things were being plotted on the fly. If anything, it should have been much easier to avoid continuity issues this time around... Oh well, most of them are very minor plot-wise (grammar changing on text messages, etc.) and some of the issues resulting from lack of re-shoots or budget/time constraints even play into the overall theme of the series (the diner patrons swapping out, Jacoby repeating himself, etc.).
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby TheGum » Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:25 am

cgs027 wrote:
wxray wrote:
Wally Brando wrote:The original series was full of continuity errors and other mistakes, it really had never been as meticulously pieced together as some people seen to think, so I'm not sure why (some) people seem convinced that all the cock-ups this time around are intentional.

Yep. And we know DKL filmed all this and then went into a mega editing process. He has been firm that there were no pick-ups or re-shoots. Given the budget, and lack of re-shoots, crap is bound to happen. You can only do so many head replacements or whatever before you exhaust your options with digital manipulation too. A budget is a budget.

I'm trying to let them go as much as I can, but some are a bit distracting.


Yep. All the more distracting in this case due to the fact that the script had been completed prior to shooting (although I'm sure there were plenty of moments of Lynch going off script) unlike seasons 1 and 2, where things were being plotted on the fly. If anything, it should have been much easier to avoid continuity issues this time around... Oh well, most of them are very minor plot-wise (grammar changing on text messages, etc.) and some of the issues resulting from lack of re-shoots or budget/time constraints even play into the overall theme of the series (the diner patrons swapping out, etc.).


Still not convinced thats an error
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby cgs027 » Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:27 am

TheGum wrote:
cgs027 wrote:
wxray wrote:Yep. And we know DKL filmed all this and then went into a mega editing process. He has been firm that there were no pick-ups or re-shoots. Given the budget, and lack of re-shoots, crap is bound to happen. You can only do so many head replacements or whatever before you exhaust your options with digital manipulation too. A budget is a budget.

I'm trying to let them go as much as I can, but some are a bit distracting.


Yep. All the more distracting in this case due to the fact that the script had been completed prior to shooting (although I'm sure there were plenty of moments of Lynch going off script) unlike seasons 1 and 2, where things were being plotted on the fly. If anything, it should have been much easier to avoid continuity issues this time around... Oh well, most of them are very minor plot-wise (grammar changing on text messages, etc.) and some of the issues resulting from lack of re-shoots or budget/time constraints even play into the overall theme of the series (the diner patrons swapping out, etc.).


Still not convinced thats an error


I don't think it's an "error", I think he had to find a shot from that given angle of the diner, and found during the editing process that the only one he had available had different extras at the time.
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby Wally Brando » Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:28 am

cgs027 wrote:
wxray wrote:
Wally Brando wrote:The original series was full of continuity errors and other mistakes, it really had never been as meticulously pieced together as some people seen to think, so I'm not sure why (some) people seem convinced that all the cock-ups this time around are intentional.

Yep. And we know DKL filmed all this and then went into a mega editing process. He has been firm that there were no pick-ups or re-shoots. Given the budget, and lack of re-shoots, crap is bound to happen. You can only do so many head replacements or whatever before you exhaust your options with digital manipulation too. A budget is a budget.

I'm trying to let them go as much as I can, but some are a bit distracting.


Yep. All the more distracting in this case due to the fact that the script had been completed prior to shooting (although I'm sure there were plenty of moments of Lynch going off script) unlike seasons 1 and 2, where things were being plotted on the fly. If anything, it should have been much easier to avoid continuity issues this time around...

I'm re-reading The Essential Wrapped In Plastic atm, and it's clear that the scripts were reasonably well managed in terms of Frost overseeing them, and that the episodes directed by Lynch especially contained all sorts of stuff not included in the scripts or rewritten on the fly. Even stuff that has been highlighted again in this series, such as continuity errors around phases of the moon, were present, and were even more obvious with the more straightforward timeline. When pulled on clear contradictions, e.g. Jacques Renault's blood type, their response was essentially to shrug their shoulders and plead ignorance.

Sometimes a mistake is just a mistake.
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby DeepBlueSeed » Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:30 am

TheGum wrote:
cgs027 wrote:
wxray wrote:Yep. And we know DKL filmed all this and then went into a mega editing process. He has been firm that there were no pick-ups or re-shoots. Given the budget, and lack of re-shoots, crap is bound to happen. You can only do so many head replacements or whatever before you exhaust your options with digital manipulation too. A budget is a budget.

I'm trying to let them go as much as I can, but some are a bit distracting.


Yep. All the more distracting in this case due to the fact that the script had been completed prior to shooting (although I'm sure there were plenty of moments of Lynch going off script) unlike seasons 1 and 2, where things were being plotted on the fly. If anything, it should have been much easier to avoid continuity issues this time around... Oh well, most of them are very minor plot-wise (grammar changing on text messages, etc.) and some of the issues resulting from lack of re-shoots or budget/time constraints even play into the overall theme of the series (the diner patrons swapping out, etc.).


Still not convinced thats an error


Yeah, I don't think it is either. The whole debate about whether the Roadhouse coexists in two forms seems to support that to some degree. I get the feeling that dream and reality overlap in some parts of the town.
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby Troubbble » Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:39 am

Twin Peaks Podcast wrote:Mark my words. Cooper is gonna give up his spot in the real world to Laura Palmer and he'll go back to the lodge forever.


Making Twin Peaks: The Return, in actuality, the story of the return of Laura Palmer.

God-DAMN. Would NOT be surprised.
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby Troubbble » Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:43 am

Agree that most of the discrepancies are just minor errors, and not consequential.

Wish we'd have spent less time debating over them, since most of them went completely unnoticed by me while enjoying the episodes at home. (An exception would be the "twenty five years your senior" line, which I'm still kind of curious about, since it seems like a hard mistake to make.)
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby Oneeyedwaldo » Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:17 am

Twin Peaks Podcast wrote:Mark my words. Cooper is gonna give up his spot in the real world to Laura Palmer and he'll go back to the lodge forever.

Spoiler:
Where maybe he'll turn into a teapot.

Spoiler:
As soon as Laura was thrown from the black lodge I had a feeling that Cooper would rescue/return Laura somehow.
There's that scene that we have seen yet where Coopers ok what looks like the Palmers doorstep with someone and it's possibly Laura. Maybe he's returning her home.
[/quote]
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby cgs027 » Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:24 am

Oneeyedwaldo wrote:
Twin Peaks Podcast wrote:Mark my words. Cooper is gonna give up his spot in the real world to Laura Palmer and he'll go back to the lodge forever.

Spoiler:
Where maybe he'll turn into a teapot.

(Redacted)


May want to spoiler this. I know a lot of people specifically avoided any photos/videos taken during filming on location... (Removed offending text from reply so it doesn't flow downstream).
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby dustoff » Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:38 am

cgs027 wrote:
wxray wrote:
Wally Brando wrote:The original series was full of continuity errors and other mistakes, it really had never been as meticulously pieced together as some people seen to think, so I'm not sure why (some) people seem convinced that all the cock-ups this time around are intentional.

Yep. And we know DKL filmed all this and then went into a mega editing process. He has been firm that there were no pick-ups or re-shoots. Given the budget, and lack of re-shoots, crap is bound to happen. You can only do so many head replacements or whatever before you exhaust your options with digital manipulation too. A budget is a budget.

I'm trying to let them go as much as I can, but some are a bit distracting.


Yep. All the more distracting in this case due to the fact that the script had been completed prior to shooting (although I'm sure there were plenty of moments of Lynch going off script) unlike seasons 1 and 2, where things were being plotted on the fly. If anything, it should have been much easier to avoid continuity issues this time around... Oh well, most of them are very minor plot-wise (grammar changing on text messages, etc.) and some of the issues resulting from lack of re-shoots or budget/time constraints even play into the overall theme of the series (the diner patrons swapping out, Jacoby repeating himself, etc.).


I don't know, that kinda strikes me as something like blaming Picasso for not putting the eyes on the same side of the face, or the Impressionists for letting their brush-strokes show. All this talk about verisimilitude, what is "realistic," "plausible," etc: We do realize that Lynch and Frost are not the Dardenne brothers, right? Nowhere in Lynch's work have his mysteries been expressed as something that could be mistaken for a continuity error or video-compression glitch: they are usually telegraphed pretty clearly, if still often inscrutably.
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby Ragnell » Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:57 am

dustoff wrote:
cgs027 wrote:
wxray wrote:Yep. And we know DKL filmed all this and then went into a mega editing process. He has been firm that there were no pick-ups or re-shoots. Given the budget, and lack of re-shoots, crap is bound to happen. You can only do so many head replacements or whatever before you exhaust your options with digital manipulation too. A budget is a budget.

I'm trying to let them go as much as I can, but some are a bit distracting.


Yep. All the more distracting in this case due to the fact that the script had been completed prior to shooting (although I'm sure there were plenty of moments of Lynch going off script) unlike seasons 1 and 2, where things were being plotted on the fly. If anything, it should have been much easier to avoid continuity issues this time around... Oh well, most of them are very minor plot-wise (grammar changing on text messages, etc.) and some of the issues resulting from lack of re-shoots or budget/time constraints even play into the overall theme of the series (the diner patrons swapping out, Jacoby repeating himself, etc.).


I don't know, that kinda strikes me as something like blaming Picasso for not putting the eyes on the same side of the face, or the Impressionists for letting their brush-strokes show. All this talk about verisimilitude, what is "realistic," "plausible," etc: We do realize that Lynch and Frost are not the Dardenne brothers, right? Nowhere in Lynch's work have his mysteries been expressed as something that could be mistaken for a continuity error or video-compression glitch: they are usually telegraphed pretty clearly, if still often inscrutably.


I think this all stems from us just being used to the usual business of being strict about continuity and detail and knowing that Lynch and Frost are good at this. They make stuff we enjoy, stuff we love and are clear masters of their craft so people assume these mistakes won't happen.

When the truth is, and we've seen in consistently in their interviews, they don't care about continuity. As long as the overall feeling is right. It's a different attitude to film than the usual successful creators have.

That said, I love crack fan theories, I love the old No Prize spirit where fans try to explain the errors away, and I love that sometimes these things are on purpose and we in that golden period before the finale where we can pick them our and try and guess if any of them are clues. After Sunday, we can't do that anymore. So let's go nuts now! Its all a dream! Tulpamania! Secret Doppelganger Invasion!

On Monday, after I've seen the end, I'll accept there's mistakes. Until then we're having a Fan Theory Party!
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby cgs027 » Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:00 am

dustoff wrote:
cgs027 wrote:
wxray wrote:Yep. And we know DKL filmed all this and then went into a mega editing process. He has been firm that there were no pick-ups or re-shoots. Given the budget, and lack of re-shoots, crap is bound to happen. You can only do so many head replacements or whatever before you exhaust your options with digital manipulation too. A budget is a budget.

I'm trying to let them go as much as I can, but some are a bit distracting.


Yep. All the more distracting in this case due to the fact that the script had been completed prior to shooting (although I'm sure there were plenty of moments of Lynch going off script) unlike seasons 1 and 2, where things were being plotted on the fly. If anything, it should have been much easier to avoid continuity issues this time around... Oh well, most of them are very minor plot-wise (grammar changing on text messages, etc.) and some of the issues resulting from lack of re-shoots or budget/time constraints even play into the overall theme of the series (the diner patrons swapping out, Jacoby repeating himself, etc.).


I don't know, that kinda strikes me as something like blaming Picasso for not putting the eyes on the same side of the face, or the Impressionists for letting their brush-strokes show. All this talk about verisimilitude, what is "realistic," "plausible," etc: We do realize that Lynch and Frost are not the Dardenne brothers, right? Nowhere in Lynch's work have his mysteries been expressed as something that could be mistaken for a continuity error or video-compression glitch: they are usually telegraphed pretty clearly, if still often inscrutably.


Nowhere in Lynch's work has he had to edit together almost 18 hours of footage without the luxury of re-shoots. And again, I'm not saying the latter are "errors". But I'm sure some choices had to be made in the editing process that weren't ideal, but worked out fine thematically. I don't believe the (Sega) House Of The Dead V1 headshot effects on Duncan Todd were some artistic decision. There were time/budgetary constraints at play here, much moreso than a 2-3 hour feature film.

Anyways, don't want to derail this thread, way off topic at this point.
Last edited by cgs027 on Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby cgs027 » Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:07 am

Ragnell wrote:
dustoff wrote:
cgs027 wrote:
Yep. All the more distracting in this case due to the fact that the script had been completed prior to shooting (although I'm sure there were plenty of moments of Lynch going off script) unlike seasons 1 and 2, where things were being plotted on the fly. If anything, it should have been much easier to avoid continuity issues this time around... Oh well, most of them are very minor plot-wise (grammar changing on text messages, etc.) and some of the issues resulting from lack of re-shoots or budget/time constraints even play into the overall theme of the series (the diner patrons swapping out, Jacoby repeating himself, etc.).


I don't know, that kinda strikes me as something like blaming Picasso for not putting the eyes on the same side of the face, or the Impressionists for letting their brush-strokes show. All this talk about verisimilitude, what is "realistic," "plausible," etc: We do realize that Lynch and Frost are not the Dardenne brothers, right? Nowhere in Lynch's work have his mysteries been expressed as something that could be mistaken for a continuity error or video-compression glitch: they are usually telegraphed pretty clearly, if still often inscrutably.


I think this all stems from us just being used to the usual business of being strict about continuity and detail and knowing that Lynch and Frost are good at this. They make stuff we enjoy, stuff we love and are clear masters of their craft so people assume these mistakes won't happen.

When the truth is, and we've seen in consistently in their interviews, they don't care about continuity. As long as the overall feeling is right. It's a different attitude to film than the usual successful creators have.

That said, I love crack fan theories, I love the old No Prize spirit where fans try to explain the errors away, and I love that sometimes these things are on purpose and we in that golden period before the finale where we can pick them our and try and guess if any of them are clues. After Sunday, we can't do that anymore. So let's go nuts now! Its all a dream! Tulpamania! Secret Doppelganger Invasion!

On Monday, after I've seen the end, I'll accept there's mistakes. Until then we're having a Fan Theory Party!


Yes! Ha, Tulpamania, love it -- Vince McMahon actually did this back in the 80s in the WWF, when the evil twin brother of one of the referees fixed an Andre/Hulk match in Andre's favor! (Sorry for getting off topic).

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