Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

[TheGum]

You don't know me or what I like. Please tell me more about this fascinating avant garde. The tulpa effects are beyond being "cheesy".

I think the point here is that the tulpa effects might not appeal to you, but "cheesy" signifies going for one thing and ending up with another. There is no realistic example of a tulpa breaking down to seed, but looking at Lynch's art, the exact material he based that particular effect on, it's easy to tell that it is not an issue of budget constraints, that is EXACTLY what Lynch himself was going for, and you just don't like it. The source material matches the effect nearly exactly, so you can't really say "BAD EFFECTS!" In terms of what Lynch himself was trying to accomplish they're actually quite good.

Perhaps, or Lynch said we don't have the budget to make this the way I really want so lets just use the effects from that short I did, that didn't cost anything

Dude, you're like immune to logic

[referendum]

I think the Audrey thread is done.

5 dollars you are wrong there.

i guess we will find out in 16 Hours 10 Minutes 21 Seconds

It's a bet!!! (not really)

btw: what kind of crazy time warped place are you in that you only had 16 hours 10 minutes and 21 seconds to go when you posted that? My screen currently say 1 day 1 minute and 0 seconds.

in the UK. it's 15 hrs and 36 minutes now. I think your screen is misbehaving.

[ScarFace32]

I think the point here is that the tulpa effects might not appeal to you, but "cheesy" signifies going for one thing and ending up with another. There is no realistic example of a tulpa breaking down to seed, but looking at Lynch's art, the exact material he based that particular effect on, it's easy to tell that it is not an issue of budget constraints, that is EXACTLY what Lynch himself was going for, and you just don't like it. The source material matches the effect nearly exactly, so you can't really say "BAD EFFECTS!" In terms of what Lynch himself was trying to accomplish they're actually quite good.

Perhaps, or Lynch said we don't have the budget to make this the way I really want so lets just use the effects from that short I did, that didn't cost anything

Dude, you're like immune to logic

Na I get what you are saying. But you aren't looking at the big picture

[AgentEcho]

There's a few other threads like Audrey's that has to progress beyond where it is is now, but for the most part almost anything else may be game for ambiguity and interpretation, and even perhaps leaving threads incomplete as a basis for a possible continuation. As long as it's not the same threads as the ones 25 years ago I can take it.

I think the Audrey thread is done. They've confirmed that it wasn't real by showing the audience her "awakening" in the mirror. I doubt there is anywhere else for that story to go (unless she sinks back into dreamland and argues with Charlie some more).

There might be the little matter of where exactly she is, in that room with the mirror, and what's happened to her all this years, and what happened between her and Evil Coop. I'm going to go out on a limp and guess that Frost and Lynch do actually have something left to say about that, but we'll see tomorrow.

[Mr. Reindeer]

Was Diane-E created by DoppelCoop or by the real Diane? My understanding of tulpas stems solely from what people have posted to this board the past couple weeks, but I thought it was a sort of thought-self which a person dreams into existence to explore other planes of reality/thought. This sounds like a very Lynchian concept (one I almost wish the series had spent more time on), and I liked the extension of the original show's "mythology as abuse metaphor" approach, if the assumption is that the real Diane created the tulpa after DoppelCoop raped her, as a form of dissociation.

However, everyone seems to be assuming DoppelCoop created Diane-E...so I did some quick Googling and realized that the tulpa thing (like most religious/quasi-religious concepts) is much more complex/nuanced than the cliff notes version. It seems a tulpa doesn't have to be a version of yourself, but can also be an entirely other individual created through thought. So, maybe DoppelCoop did create her. I like this idea a lot less, because it robs Diane (one of the more complex new female characters) of agency and eliminates the aforementioned psychological level of the mythology. However, I DO find this possibility kind of amusing, because if DoppelCoop created Diane-E....we're then left to speculate whether our Coop created the actual Diane from his thoughts, as well. And maybe we're STILL left to question whether a "real" Diane actually existed at all on our physical plane, or was merely an imaginary friend of Dale's given dark life by DoppelCoop.

[BigEd]

5 dollars you are wrong there.

i guess we will find out in 16 Hours 10 Minutes 21 Seconds

It's a bet!!! (not really)

btw: what kind of crazy time warped place are you in that you only had 16 hours 10 minutes and 21 seconds to go when you posted that? My screen currently say 1 day 1 minute and 0 seconds.

in the UK. it's 15 hrs and 36 minutes now. I think your screen is misbehaving.

So do you fine folks across the pond get to see the episodes 8 hours before I do?

(actually, I did finally figure out that I could use my fire stick and Showtime anytime to gain a couple of hours..... hmmmm - maybe Showtime anytime will provide the episodes as soon as the UK can see them)

[Ross]

I don't think there's any way Audrey won't be in tomorrow's final. That story isn't done.

[BigEd]

There's a few other threads like Audrey's that has to progress beyond where it is is now, but for the most part almost anything else may be game for ambiguity and interpretation, and even perhaps leaving threads incomplete as a basis for a possible continuation. As long as it's not the same threads as the ones 25 years ago I can take it.

I think the Audrey thread is done. They've confirmed that it wasn't real by showing the audience her "awakening" in the mirror. I doubt there is anywhere else for that story to go (unless she sinks back into dreamland and argues with Charlie some more).

There might be the little matter of where exactly she is, in that room with the mirror, and what's happened to her all this years, and what happened between her and Evil Coop. I'm going to go out on a limp and guess that Frost and Lynch do actually have something left to say about that, but we'll see tomorrow.

You may be right. OTOH, I think we've already been "told" that Mr. C raped her when she was in the ICU in a coma and that she is now in a white room (asylum or similar) where she has been in dreamy land (coma or nuts) for a long time. Those "nut house" references are likely not coincidence. Not sure what else we can learn at this point. Sure, they could show a few minutes of the real coop checking in on her in her now awakened state with a feel good ending (like Ed and Norma), but I'm doubting it.

[sewhite2000]

Was Diane-E created by DoppelCoop or by the real Diane? My understanding of tulpas stems solely from what people have posted to this board the past couple weeks, but I thought it was a sort of thought-self which a person dreams into existence to explore other planes of reality/thought. This sounds like a very Lynchian concept (one I almost wish the series had spent more time on), and I liked the extension of the original show's "mythology as abuse metaphor" approach, if the assumption is that the real Diane created the tulpa after DoppelCoop raped her, as a form of dissociation.

However, everyone seems to be assuming DoppelCoop created Diane-E...so I did some quick Googling and realized that the tulpa thing (like most religious/quasi-religious concepts) is much more complex/nuanced than the cliff notes version. It seems a tulpa doesn't have to be a version of yourself, but can also be an entirely other individual created through thought. So, maybe DoppelCoop did create her. I like this idea a lot less, because it robs Diane (one of the more complex new female characters) of agency and eliminates the aforementioned psychological level of the mythology. However, I DO find this possibility kind of amusing, because if DoppelCoop created Diane-E....we're then left to speculate whether our Coop created the actual Diane from his thoughts, as well. And maybe we're STILL left to question whether a "real" Diane actually existed at all on our physical plane, or was merely an imaginary friend of Dale's given dark life by DoppelCoop.

I feel like Team Blue Rose sought out what they assumed was the real Diane for feedback on the Cooper they went to meet. It doesn't seem to me the Diane that Cooper was sending tapes to was completely imaginary! Otherwise, Gordon and Albert would know that.

I think there was a real Diane up until the point Evil Cooper raped her and took her to the Convenience Store where a tulpa of her was created (by him? Not sure, but if he also created Dougie, then yes, I think so). What happened to real Diane after that? I don't know. Seems like she could be Naido, although some people think Laura is Naido. I guess all will be revealed soon (Ha! Well, maybe, you never know with Lynch ...)

[BigEd]

Was Diane-E created by DoppelCoop or by the real Diane? My understanding of tulpas stems solely from what people have posted to this board the past couple weeks, but I thought it was a sort of thought-self which a person dreams into existence to explore other planes of reality/thought. This sounds like a very Lynchian concept (one I almost wish the series had spent more time on), and I liked the extension of the original show's "mythology as abuse metaphor" approach, if the assumption is that the real Diane created the tulpa after DoppelCoop raped her, as a form of dissociation.

However, everyone seems to be assuming DoppelCoop created Diane-E...so I did some quick Googling and realized that the tulpa thing (like most religious/quasi-religious concepts) is much more complex/nuanced than the cliff notes version. It seems a tulpa doesn't have to be a version of yourself, but can also be an entirely other individual created through thought. So, maybe DoppelCoop did create her. I like this idea a lot less, because it robs Diane (one of the more complex new female characters) of agency and eliminates the aforementioned psychological level of the mythology. However, I DO find this possibility kind of amusing, because if DoppelCoop created Diane-E....we're then left to speculate whether our Coop created the actual Diane from his thoughts, as well. And maybe we're STILL left to question whether a "real" Diane actually existed at all on our physical plane, or was merely an imaginary friend of Dale's given dark life by DoppelCoop.

Diane had to be a real person. Albert and Cole knew her and worked with her. Albert also likely drank with her.

[Mr. Reindeer]

Even for this show, not showing Audrey again would be pretty edgy. In another thread, I created a poll regarding what characters we'll see in the finale, but I left Audrey out as an option because she seems like such a lock.

I wish we could all get together and do a Super Bowl-style pool re: what characters will and won't appear. I'd be happy to take Big Ed's money, just like One Eyed Jack's did in season 1.

[BigEd]

Even for this show, not showing Audrey again would be pretty edgy. In another thread, I created a poll regarding what characters we'll see in the finale, but I left Audrey out as an option because she seems like such a lock.

I wish we could all get together and do a Super Bowl-style pool re: what characters will and won't appear. I'd be happy to take Big Ed's money, just like One Eyed Jack's did in season 1.

Funny..... We'll see soon!

[Mr. Reindeer]

Diane had to be a real person. Albert and Cole knew her and worked with her. Albert also likely drank with her.

Good point. We also know Gordon smoked with her. Guess I've just romanticized the idea of Schrödinger's Diane so much over the years, I want to hold onto it.

[referendum]

So do you fine folks across the pond get to see the episodes 8 hours before I do?

(actually, I did finally figure out that I could use my fire stick and Showtime anytime to gain a couple of hours..... hmmmm - maybe Showtime anytime will provide the episodes as soon as the UK can see them)

[/quote]

hmm this is confusing. It screens here at 1 am tomorrow morning. That is 20 hours from now. I thought it showed here the same time it does on showtime. But at the top of my screen it says it shows in 14 hours 48 minutes. So i figured it must show earlier somewhere else. Weird. Maybe the timer on dugpa has gone wrong in the EU. Don't ask me how it works.

ps, Diane is a real person and Coop and Albert both recognise her, which means she ( the original Diane) looks like Laura Dern and not Naido. That part has been puzzling me slightly, how to make sense of Naido being Diane - as alot of people have suggested - if they are physically different. There has been no example of someone turning up as someone who looks nothing like them yet in Twin Peaks ( apart from BOB in S1/2). Oh, and i suppose the bowie Teapot and the arm. Hmm. I guess I will find out in about 21 hrs time

[BigEd]

So do you fine folks across the pond get to see the episodes 8 hours before I do?

(actually, I did finally figure out that I could use my fire stick and Showtime anytime to gain a couple of hours..... hmmmm - maybe Showtime anytime will provide the episodes as soon as the UK can see them)

hmm this is confusing. It screens here at 1 am tomorrow morning. That is 20 hours from now. I thought it showed here the same time it does on showtime. But at the top of my screen it says it shows in 14 hours 48 minutes. So i figured it must show earlier somewhere else. Weird. Maybe the timer on dugpa has gone wrong in the EU. Don't ask me how it works.

ps, Diane is a real person and Coop and Albert both recognise her, which means she ( the original Diane) looks like Laura Dern and not Naido. That part has been puzzling me slightly, how to make sense of Naido being Diane - as alot of people have suggested - if they are physically different. There has been no example of someone turning up as someone who looks nothing like them yet in Twin Peaks ( apart from BOB in S1/2). Oh, and i suppose the bowie Teapot and the arm. Hmm. I guess I will find out in about 21 hrs time

I don't know how Dugpa time works either. I do know that I can catch the episodes as soon as they air in the USA Eastern Time zone. That means I can see them in 19 1/2 hours from now.