Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Discussion of each of the 18 parts of Twin Peaks the Return

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Jasper
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby Jasper » Sat Sep 02, 2017 10:15 pm

I believe that for the countdown clock to be accurate you've got to make sure that you've selected the proper time zone in your user settings.

Go to user control panel, then board preferences.
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referendum
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby referendum » Sat Sep 02, 2017 10:33 pm

Jasper wrote:I believe that for the countdown clock to be accurate you've got to make sure that you've selected the proper time zone in your user settings.

Go to user control panel, then board preferences.


time zone is set accurately to Greenwich Mean Time. I live 2OO yards from the Greenwich Meridian, so it is really accurate! The dugpa countdown clock for some reason is not. :)
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N. Needleman
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby N. Needleman » Sat Sep 02, 2017 10:37 pm

ScarFace32 wrote:
TheGum wrote:
ScarFace32 wrote:
Perhaps, or Lynch said we don't have the budget to make this the way I really want so lets just use the effects from that short I did, that didn't cost anything


Dude, you're like immune to logic


Na I get what you are saying. But you aren't looking at the big picture


No, you aren't.

Do you seriously believe Lynch - who is historically fond of janky, weird and anachronistic, obviously fake FX in many pieces of his work - would blow the bulk of the budget on one episode and then struggle to finish the edit on the rest, when they knew for years in advance the amount of FX work this show would require? Or it is just possible that David Lynch actually decided he wanted a certain immersive effect for one tier of FX in the story, and a deliberately artificial and bizarre look for other elements (as he has done often in the past)?

Why are you resistant to that? Or does the thought that Lynch could've chosen this personally offend you?
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ScarFace32
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby ScarFace32 » Sat Sep 02, 2017 11:45 pm

N. Needleman wrote:
ScarFace32 wrote:
TheGum wrote:
Dude, you're like immune to logic


Na I get what you are saying. But you aren't looking at the big picture


No, you aren't.

Do you seriously believe Lynch - who is historically fond of janky, weird and anachronistic, obviously fake FX in many pieces of his work - would blow the bulk of the budget on one episode and then struggle to finish the edit on the rest, when they knew for years in advance the amount of FX work this show would require? Or it is just possible that David Lynch actually decided he wanted a certain immersive effect for one tier of FX in the story, and a deliberately artificial and bizarre look for other elements (as he has done often in the past)?

Why are you resistant to that? Or does the thought that Lynch could've chosen this personally offend you?


Ok we'll just tell me this. How much do you think the special effects with that same imagery used in the short posted upthread were determined by the cost?
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Strawberry » Sat Sep 02, 2017 11:59 pm

This is it. The last night we'll ever sit around speculating about "tomorrow night's episode of Twin Peaks". It's been so great, to a level of seeming unreal, and I'm sad facing the fact that it's ending. Reminds me of when I was much younger and had time to read. Getting to the end of a book is just as hard, because you have to leave the world created within, and the reality formed with it comes to an end.

We'll be moving on soon, and this wonderful ride will be another distant piece of our histories. It's hard to accept because now that Twin Peaks is back, I'm so used to it again, and it's doubtful that I'm alone in that. So very many here appear to have also been in Peaks Mode around the clock since this began airing. That we can be this invested in a story to begin with, almost seems silly when you think about it. But that's why I regard this as art and not entertainment.

Nothing lasts forever, but that doesn't change the fact that seeing this end will be difficult. Weird to think this will likely be the last of it, but then again, we adamantly believed that in the past and were pleasantly surprised. In any case we are so lucky that more Twin Peaks was created. It's been an incredible, one a kind experience.
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby seacow » Sun Sep 03, 2017 12:37 am

I'm on page 47 or so of however many pages were at right now, so forgive me if this has been pointed out, but...

Re: coordinates confusion
Diane sent coordinates to Mr. C in an earlier part, "+2," missing the last two digits. She saw and memorized the coordinates on Ruth Davenport's arm.
Another set came from Ray. "How do you know they're even real?" (To paraphrase.)
Third set came from Jeffries-bell-shaped-evolution.
If Jeffries and Ray are working together to kill Mr. C, as we are led to believe, then I believe those are the two matching sets that lead to the rock we saw.
Mr. C didnt have to have the full coordinates from Diane to know they didn't match; it could've been the first couple numbers that were different. I haven't kept track of the exact numbers she and Jeffries sent.
Diane's coordinates came from Ruth's arm which came directly from Major Briggs. I believe those are the real ones (leading to somewhere in Twin Peaks). In the timeline of this part, the ":-) ALL" text could mean three things: all coordinates, kill all agents, or remember all the things you've been through. I believe it corresponds to all 3.
Hope this makes sense. It did to me. Mr. C doesn't have to have the full coordinates from Diane to know they were the ones that didn't match. I think he has some intuition that the coordinates would have to do with Dale's past. Were we told exactly where that rock was, or which direction Mr. C and Richard were headed? They were in Western Montana (Missoula?) before Richard followed him to the convenience store, so they're clearly heading west from South Dakota. I think Mr. C realizes he's in for more than he planned. He knows his Dougie tulpa plan didn't work. Unless that wasn't the plan he mentioned to Darya; maybe it was just something to buy him time.
What I love about this series is, ya never fricken know. And once you think you do, Frost and Lynch remind you that you don't, at all. That's the spirit of the original. I'm in awe every week and I cannot wait for tomorrow night!!
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby sewhite2000 » Sun Sep 03, 2017 12:55 am

I agree with your assessment of the coordinates and all its various providers. We know the rock is very near Twin Peaks, because here came Jerry running out after being lost in the woods for a week. I think Dougie was the plan Evil Coop mentioned to Darya.
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docLEXfisti
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby docLEXfisti » Sun Sep 03, 2017 1:04 am

Man I don't want this to end. So hard to know it's the last two episodes... hopefully not forever
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby wxray » Sun Sep 03, 2017 4:23 am

BigEd wrote:I think the Audrey thread is done. They've confirmed that it wasn't real by showing the audience her "awakening" in the mirror. I doubt there is anywhere else for that story to go (unless she sinks back into dreamland and argues with Charlie some more).


I think there may be a pan-back of the scene and we find Audrey in either a mental institution, or a substance abuse rehab facility. I'm voting on rehab.

She'll run down the hall and meet up with the other rehab inhabitants, and we'll see a variety of characters we recognize from the roadhouse, including all the girls that had their weird gossip sessions, and a smattering of boys who are angry.

I have no idea where the story goes from there.
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby Ragnell » Sun Sep 03, 2017 4:35 am

seacow wrote:I'm on page 47 or so of however many pages were at right now, so forgive me if this has been pointed out, but...

Re: coordinates confusion
Diane sent coordinates to Mr. C in an earlier part, "+2," missing the last two digits. She saw and memorized the coordinates on Ruth Davenport's arm.
Another set came from Ray. "How do you know they're even real?" (To paraphrase.)
Third set came from Jeffries-bell-shaped-evolution.
If Jeffries and Ray are working together to kill Mr. C, as we are led to believe, then I believe those are the two matching sets that lead to the rock we saw.
Mr. C didnt have to have the full coordinates from Diane to know they didn't match; it could've been the first couple numbers that were different. I haven't kept track of the exact numbers she and Jeffries sent.
Diane's coordinates came from Ruth's arm which came directly from Major Briggs. I believe those are the real ones (leading to somewhere in Twin Peaks). In the timeline of this part, the ":-) ALL" text could mean three things: all coordinates, kill all agents, or remember all the things you've been through. I believe it corresponds to all 3.
Hope this makes sense. It did to me. Mr. C doesn't have to have the full coordinates from Diane to know they were the ones that didn't match. I think he has some intuition that the coordinates would have to do with Dale's past. Were we told exactly where that rock was, or which direction Mr. C and Richard were headed? They were in Western Montana (Missoula?) before Richard followed him to the convenience store, so they're clearly heading west from South Dakota. I think Mr. C realizes he's in for more than he planned. He knows his Dougie tulpa plan didn't work. Unless that wasn't the plan he mentioned to Darya; maybe it was just something to buy him time.
What I love about this series is, ya never fricken know. And once you think you do, Frost and Lynch remind you that you don't, at all. That's the spirit of the original. I'm in awe every week and I cannot wait for tomorrow night!!


I like this thought. The one thing I've been sure of is one of the bad sets came from Jeffries, because it seems to me that Jeffries does not like Doppelcoop all that much. Playing into the wonderful difference between Coop and Doppelcoop, which is that Coop is naturally magnetic and likable and surrounded by people who help him because they like him, and Doppelcoop is the exact opposite, someone almost no one really likes but gets people to help him because they're afraid of him.
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby garethw » Sun Sep 03, 2017 5:06 am

ScarFace32 wrote:So who was the guy who left Diane's apartment when Cole & Albert walked in?


Male escort.

Both Dougie and Diane feed on the pleasures.

EDIT: might have been an early clue for us.
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mtwentz
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby mtwentz » Sun Sep 03, 2017 6:12 am

So is today the day we find out if Red is real or just a figment of Richard's/Shelly's imaginations?
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby claaa7 » Sun Sep 03, 2017 6:12 am

referendum wrote:
Jasper wrote:
"Dougie" was like a numb, transparent shell of Coop, and a fully-aware Cooper was trapped on the inside of this shell, able to observe everything, but only able to lightly influence the actions of "Dougie". Cooper's goodness was able to permeate the shell, but for the most part his wit was not, except for in extreme instances (like the attack by Ike).

It's kind of like being stuck in a dream where you know it's a dream, but you can't seem to wake up. Your sleeping body might stir a bit in response to your awareness, but your conscious mind is essentially trapped in a sleeping body. In Cooper's case Cole's name stirred "Dougie" sufficiently for Cooper to seize a certain level of control, and engineer a way out.

Prior to Part 16, I didn't exactly know how DougieCoop worked. Now I know that there were two layers of consciousness of one person. The outer layer being barely conscious, and the hidden inner layer being fully conscious.


yeah, thanks for that. exactly this. :D

That for me ( your words in bold above) is where the 'Dougie' plotline hooks in with the rest of the show, why it is there, and central, and not as so many people say, a Las Vegas irrelevance, and i didn't see how the Dougie plot links with the rest, until a couple of days ago, when i had this...er...dream, a repetitive loop dream, being in the same place where the same events kept happening, half way between where i set out from and where i was going to ( on foot) and not being able to snap out of it or go forward or back, or speak properly, or move my limbs properly .... even though everything round me was happening ' normally eg at a normal speed, i was...not able to be fully present, and even though i was fully conscious of this and knew how stupid it looked to other people, who were understandably quite impatient about it.... and i woke up and went downstairs still carrying the residue of this dream-image/feeling, and suddenly thought:

Shit!!
Dougie!!

Then of course i totally forgot about it, until your comment reminded me of it just now. Of course is just random nonsense, but:

i love the way TP/ Lynch can make connections on these kinds of levels, by retaining the ' purity' of the idea, even though the result might appear ( at first glance ) to be totally fucking crass or stupid or annoying, and even though it might not click for a few days or even weeks, when it connects, it really connects. And it makes PEOPLE connect because they have both seen the same thing, and try and find ways of saying it to each other, revoice what lynch has already shown. This is a great level for film to work on, I think.

I remember reading an interview with someone who worked with Lynch on a record, and at one point, the guy said to Lynch, '' I dunno whether this is any good or not'', and Lynch said, '' don't worry about that. We're making things that other people can USE''

Cooper waking and the audrey mirror ending...are they different versions of the same thing?


thanks for this post.. beautiful insights! it also ties in with MIKE/Gerard's constant urgings to Cooper to WAKE UP!! DON'T DIE!!
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby claaa7 » Sun Sep 03, 2017 6:16 am

Mr. Reindeer wrote:so I did some quick Googling and realized that the tulpa thing (like most religious/quasi-religious concepts) is much more complex/nuanced than the cliff notes version. It seems a tulpa doesn't have to be a version of yourself, but can also be an entirely other individual created through thought.


yes, this is my understanding of what i read on the Tulpa concept before this series as well.. there's at least one X-Files episode that explores the Tulpa concept..

A tulpa is a thought form which, once someone keeps thinking about it and exerts their will to imagine it in more and more detail, somehow takes life and becomes a physical reality. A tulpa will behave as though it is the real entity it is based on, if any; it can walk, talk, interact with physical objects and so on.

However being a soulless construct somewhat similar to a golem, ultimately all tulpas begin to malfunction or become violent and malevolent.
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby Novalis » Sun Sep 03, 2017 6:34 am

claaa7 wrote:
Mr. Reindeer wrote:so I did some quick Googling and realized that the tulpa thing (like most religious/quasi-religious concepts) is much more complex/nuanced than the cliff notes version. It seems a tulpa doesn't have to be a version of yourself, but can also be an entirely other individual created through thought.


yes, this is my understanding of what i read on the Tulpa concept before this series as well.. there's at least one X-Files episode that explores the Tulpa concept..

A tulpa is a thought form which, once someone keeps thinking about it and exerts their will to imagine it in more and more detail, somehow takes life and becomes a physical reality. A tulpa will behave as though it is the real entity it is based on, if any; it can walk, talk, interact with physical objects and so on.

However being a soulless construct somewhat similar to a golem, ultimately all tulpas begin to malfunction or become violent and malevolent.


There's some really interesting discussion of these things here: https://savageminds.org/2016/02/13/para ... in-common/

Incidentally, I started a thread for discussing just these things: viewtopic.php?f=29&t=3783
As a matter of fact, 'Chalfont' was the name of the people that rented this space before. Two Chalfonts. Weird, huh?

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