Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby kornishpyxee » Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:39 pm

Jerry Horne wrote:Fenn's tattoo:


I think it's upside down--looks like the Hindu symbol for "om".

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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby claaa7 » Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:43 pm

my god how i love this new Twin Peaks.. sure it has had some bump in the road throughout but it's a long ass movie/season so that's expected. the storytelling is pure Lynch / Frost and is crazy as hell, which is right up my alley!

for the last few parts i decided on watching in the dark on my laptop with a good pair of headphones instead of pluggin in my computerto my HD tv. the sound design and having all the sounds so close and right up front makes wonders.. although on rewatch i'll watch it on the TV as well. i just can't wait for the Blu Ray (and the two soundtracks + the new book). what a time to be a Twin Peaks and Lynch fanatic :D

what a feeling it was to see Cooper back to his senses again! how beautiful was that scene when he said to Janey-E and Sonny Jim that he truly loved them and that they had given him such a beautiful heartwarming time for the past weeks. it seems he might manufacture a new Dougie tulpa for them, but at the same time i wouldn't at all be suprised if he returned to Janey-E and Sonny jim himself at the end, to live a happy family life. i would be very fine with that ending :D

the pure chaos scene at Lancelot Court was so pure Lynchian it was crazy.. you got FBI, the Mitchums and Chantal/Hutch all staking out the Jones' house. Chantal as usual feasting on cheese doodles when this neighbor comes along asking them to move their car. when he brought out that fucking uzi or whatever it was hysterical in its bizareness. Brutal fucking murder hahah... what a guy!!! ice cold.. and bye bye to Chantal and Hutch, i loved those characters.

in a way this episode felt a bit lighter, in that it was mostly taking place during the daytime while the previous part was very dark and consisted mostly of nighttime shooting. beautiful combination these 2 eps..

the Diane stuff was insane!!! the thing is the tulpas - i don't think they know they are tulpas. like Dougie Jones always thought he was a real man... the woman that Mister C raped was probably the real Diane, as she said he then took her to what looked like an old gas station (this is actually the Convenience Store) and it's very possible it was here the tulpa was created, although still with most of Diane's real memories. i hardly think she faked any part of telling the rape story (whether to mister c in ep. 6 or in this one)

i feel sad as hell that we are coming to a close now though... only one fucking week to go and then it's over, no more Twin Peaks :( i've had a rather dull summer, a lot of work and no play, but Twin Peaks has really saved it and made it a great summer... this could go on forever and ever for me.




btw,, the scene with Diane in the Red Room must have been the worst effect used yet haha
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby Jasper » Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:43 pm

FlyingSquirrel wrote:Some additional thoughts on the Audrey / Roadhouse issue: logically, the idea of Audrey having been in a coma and/or the Lodge for 25 years and simply imagining this most recent scene doesn't seem like it ought to hold up. But maybe this is just another case of TP characters having a level of extra-sensory awareness and/or information being transmitted though the Lodges somehow?

Most of the evidence seems to suggest that the Roadhouse scenes up until now were real, as opposed to just a construct in Audrey's mind, because we've seen people from the real world turn up there and talk about characters and events that we also know to be real:

1) Shelly and her friends talking about Becky and James, and Shelly noticing Red
2) Richard assaulting that woman from the other booth and paying off Chad
3) James and Freddie getting in a fight (and then getting thrown in jail)

There are really only two hints, prior to tonight, that any of the Roadhouse scenes should be taken at less than face value. First, there's one guy in the crowd who caught my attention for whatever reason and who not only seems to be there in every scene, but wearing the same plaid shirt every night - it's a relatively young guy wearing glasses with a beard and mustache (which makes me wonder if some of the others in the crowd are also showing up in the same clothes in every scene). I can buy that they filmed all these scenes at once with the same extras (and that the same residents of the town go to the Roadhouse every night), but in the same clothes? Surely they could have found time to have the extras change clothes. Then there's the girl crawling on the floor and screaming without anybody seeming to notice, but I took that as more just another indication at the prevalence of assholery in present-day Twin Peaks.

However, the MC who announced "Audrey's dance" (which I assume we can all agree was *not* real) seems to be the same guy we've seen going at least as far back as NIN's appearance. One wouldn't expect Audrey to be imagining the presence of a real-life MC that she's never encountered (unless we're to assume that he's a long-time fixture who just didn't appear on-screen in the original series) or, for that matter, the presence of plaid-shirt bearded guy, who was there yet again tonight. But one also wouldn't expect her to imagine things that were happening IRL (Shelly and Red, Richard and Chad, James and Freddie) that she'd have no knowledge of if she's been comatose or in the Lodges ever since the bank explosion.

Maybe this is just one of those Lynchian puzzles that won't ever line up with a definitive interpretation. Otherwise, it seems like Audrey would have to possess some psychic ability or be "receiving" information through the Lodges for either scenario - that every Roadhouse scene was in her mind or that only tonight's was - to hold up. I guess a third possibility is that she's been conscious and sane for most of her life following the bank explosion, but only recently became delusional and/or entered the Lodges.


As I understand it, all of the Roadhouse performances were filmed on the same day with the same audience extras.
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby ThumbsUp » Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:46 pm

BigEd wrote:
BigEd wrote:Dead/complete story lines:
Audrey
BigEd / Norma
Chantel / Hutch
Jeffries
Richard
Mirriam
Harry
Bushnell / Anthony
Becky / Steven
Ben / Beverly
Diane
Shelley / Red
Jerry
Nadine
Jacoby

Still alive:
Mr. C
Mother / experiment
Sarah
Hawk / Bobby / Frank / James / Green Glove / Naido / Andy / Lucy
Judy
Mitchums / Girls
Real Coop
Fireman
Laura


Updated as shown. We're about out of time folks, and I can't see us spending any more time on those.


Not sure we're not done with Jeffries; we need to see who Mr. C talked to on the phone if it wasn't really Jeffries. And after tonight's episode, I can't imagine we're done with Diane or Audrey. Maybe even Richard. (The Dutchman's and Lodge connect Jeffries, Diane, Audrey and Richard now anyway, and we're certainly not done with those elements.) Agree with what others have said re: Shelly and Becky and Steven. I agree we're done with all the rest.
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby kornishpyxee » Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:48 pm

vicksvapor77 wrote:
kornishpyxee wrote:
FlyingSquirrel wrote:


Cooper in the original series told Audrey he was 35.

kornishpyxee


Does he explicitly say that to her in an episode? Do you remember which one?


I haven't found the episode yet, but according to twin peaks wiki Dale Cooper was born April 19, 1954. He would have been 35 in 1989. In 2016 he would be 62.

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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby nonemoreblack » Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:49 pm

ThumbsUp wrote:
nonemoreblack wrote:
Troubbble wrote:
Agreed - I hated the idea of it when it first came up.

However, it is all too appropriate that the Doppelganger would violate these two women, when the real Cooper apparently made a specific point to maintain proper boundaries with them both. (See again: Diane's "one kiss" with Cooper, years before encountering his twin.)


Yes, after Leland I suppose it's in keeping with the dark undertones of the series. I think maybe Audrey was in a coma, but she might be involved with the Lodge somehow too depending on what exactly Evil Coop did to her.


I'm assuming Evil Coop did indeed assault Audrey, but I also have wondered if he manipulated and seduced her, and took advantage of her schoolgirl crush in a really sinister way to produce evil progeny, or to use Audrey to some ulterior end.


In the Audrey thread you mentioned her maybe being placed in The Dutchman's by Evil Coop. I just remembered the mention by the women at the Roadhouseo of a nuthouse and wonder if that was a hint of her being somewhere strange. What you say would be another parallel to what he did to Diane.
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby mtsi » Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:54 pm

I can't get over how much I smiled this episode. When he woke up, I actually teared up. Can't wait for next week. Now, I DO WISH they were doing more. Damn.

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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby Ragnell » Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:55 pm

Oh my god, I swear we got "Biggest Surprise of the Part" bingo tonight.

Doppelcoop is such a horrible person. "I'm going to test this deathtrap on my son" is NOT mitigated by his son being a horrible person. Chantal remains the only person to share more than one scene with Doppelcoop and not be killed by him. Farewell, Richard, you totally deserved that.

I'm glad Jerry's okay, though.

Audrey kinda waking up coinciding with Richard's death tells me whatever the nature of her condition, its due to what Doppelcoop did. I wonder now if any of the other Roadhouse scenes were unreal. The whole place is like a dreamspace this season, but I think Audrey will be the only character having hallucinated or dreamed most of her story. For all the talk of living in a dream, in Twin Peaks dreams turning out to be reality happens more often than reality being dreamed.

I was scared Diane was going to kill Gordon. The Tulpa explanation makes sense. The part of her that was made from Diane at odds with her programming.

The end of Chantal and Hutch was hilarious and perfect and of course the guy who lives across from the Joneses carries an automatic weapon. And the Las Vegas FBI just watches.

And finally... finally... WE HAVE DALE BACK! I was just smiling this entire episode. I love how his first thought was to take care of the Joneses by creating a new tulpa. The first Dougie was made by Doppelcoop, probably using doppelganger hair amd without much thought abt the family. This one will probably be more at heart like the Dougie we've been watching, though hopefully much more active. If I'm right about him planning to send it to the Joneses rather than go back himself. (Always room for a twist there, some plan involving a decoy .) And Janey-E finally figures out there was a swap. I was hoping she'd ask to go with him. There is no reason an FBI agent can't have a family.

Either way, he knew exactly what to do and remembered everything and was so sincere and heartfelt it was perfect. His gentle reassurance and acceptance of Sonny Jim contrasted with Doppelcoop coldly killing off Richard was particularly noticeable.

Fantastic episode. I can't believe next Sunday is the end!
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby John Justice Wheeler » Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:57 pm

kornishpyxee wrote:
vicksvapor77 wrote:
kornishpyxee wrote:
Cooper in the original series told Audrey he was 35.

kornishpyxee


Does he explicitly say that to her in an episode? Do you remember which one?


I haven't found the episode yet, but according to twin peaks wiki Dale Cooper was born April 19, 1954. He would have been 35 in 1989. In 2016 he would be 62.

kornishpyxee

Why is this taking place in 2016? That's not 25 years after 1989.
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby sewhite2000 » Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:01 pm

ThumbsUp wrote:Didn't Sonny Jim mimic Donna? "You're my dad! You're my dad!"


YES! While watching, I thought, "I've heard that line before said almost the exact same way," but I couldn't place it until I read your post.
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby Smiling Bag » Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:04 pm

pvilmur wrote:
ThumbsUp wrote:
430RichardandLinda wrote:Also, to feed the Dian-L theory with Linda...

Diane got Mr. C's text at 16:31. That's 4:31. Probably because it didn't send right away (this happens to me a lot on my phone haha). 4:30 PM in Buckhorn should be light, as it is shown to be, but then it definitely shouldn't be dark in Twin Peaks (we can assume they're in the vicinity because of Jerry). Clearly that message sent with a significant delay. Or it was sent into the future... regardless the timelines aren't matching AT ALL.

430. Richard and Linda (E). 2 birds with one stone. They're both no longer on Earth. There was one stone; the golden pebble that was Diane. HMMMMM


Speaking of texts, what was up with ":-) ALL"? Like, was he telling Diane to send ALL the numbers?



I think ":-)" is Bob's way of saying "kill" -- I interpreted the text as "Kill them all"



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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby Ross » Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:06 pm

Esselgee wrote:How could Audrey imagine Eddie Vedder if she's been in a coma all this time? Pearl Jam weren't even around back then.

Music played in her room.
"I can see half my life's history in your face... And I'm not sure that I want to."
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby sewhite2000 » Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:09 pm

djsunyc wrote:
Hester Prynne wrote:
SpookyDollhouse wrote:
Btw the whole revelation with Diane is something I totally didn't call. She was made by Cooper, presumably Cooper from the future. He set most of this up it seems. Time really has folded in on itself!


Damn! I didn't think of that. Wow! I keep thinking of Coop talking to her in the tape recorder - that whole time he was talking to someone who possibly wasn't real and created by his doppelgänger in the future. What does that mean about Janey-E who is supposed to be her half sister?

What's with the "seed" that Coop knows about? Are we all just manufactured for a purpose?

I thought maybe Bad Coop killed the real Diane and had a facsimile created of her.

Oh, and the coordinates lead to the Sheriff's station?! Looks like those other 2 sets of coordinates were bogus.


i'm not sure about future cooper making diane. it seems to me diane was real, existed during the first 2 seasons of twin peaks and was then raped by dopplecoop 4 years after the season 2 finale. then he created a dopplediane and had her exist so he can use her 20 years later.


Yeah, I'm a little baffled by what this concept of "future Cooper" even means. The Diane Cooper was talking to back in the day via tape recorder was absolutely real. I don't think Evil Coooper was manipulating events on Earth until his emergence in Episode 29. I think tulpa Diane had real Diane's memories, and actually thought she was real Diane up until the point she received that last text. She talked about being taken to the Convenience Store by Evil Cooper. I think Cooper raped the real Diane, took her to the Convenience Store and created her tulpa there. What happened to the real Diane after that, we don't know yet. There seems to be some indication that Naido is Diane, since Diane started talking about being in a sheriff's station.
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby sewhite2000 » Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:11 pm

djsunyc wrote:
richsmith wrote:If this Diane was a tulpa, then what are we retrospectively meant to make of her scene with EvilCoop in the jailhouse? She seemed so genuinely disturbed and vulnerable there. Was it another one of the moments like in her last scene in Gordon's hotel room where the "real" Diane was struggling to get out?


it seems to me that the text :) ALL was something to wake her up.


Yes, I agree. It was like a Manchurian Candidate trigger phrase. When Diane saw Evil Coop in jail, she still thought she was real Diane.
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby nonemoreblack » Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:13 pm

Jasper wrote:
FlyingSquirrel wrote:Some additional thoughts on the Audrey / Roadhouse issue: logically, the idea of Audrey having been in a coma and/or the Lodge for 25 years and simply imagining this most recent scene doesn't seem like it ought to hold up. But maybe this is just another case of TP characters having a level of extra-sensory awareness and/or information being transmitted though the Lodges somehow?

Most of the evidence seems to suggest that the Roadhouse scenes up until now were real, as opposed to just a construct in Audrey's mind, because we've seen people from the real world turn up there and talk about characters and events that we also know to be real:

1) Shelly and her friends talking about Becky and James, and Shelly noticing Red
2) Richard assaulting that woman from the other booth and paying off Chad
3) James and Freddie getting in a fight (and then getting thrown in jail)

There are really only two hints, prior to tonight, that any of the Roadhouse scenes should be taken at less than face value. First, there's one guy in the crowd who caught my attention for whatever reason and who not only seems to be there in every scene, but wearing the same plaid shirt every night - it's a relatively young guy wearing glasses with a beard and mustache (which makes me wonder if some of the others in the crowd are also showing up in the same clothes in every scene). I can buy that they filmed all these scenes at once with the same extras (and that the same residents of the town go to the Roadhouse every night), but in the same clothes? Surely they could have found time to have the extras change clothes. Then there's the girl crawling on the floor and screaming without anybody seeming to notice, but I took that as more just another indication at the prevalence of assholery in present-day Twin Peaks.

However, the MC who announced "Audrey's dance" (which I assume we can all agree was *not* real) seems to be the same guy we've seen going at least as far back as NIN's appearance. One wouldn't expect Audrey to be imagining the presence of a real-life MC that she's never encountered (unless we're to assume that he's a long-time fixture who just didn't appear on-screen in the original series) or, for that matter, the presence of plaid-shirt bearded guy, who was there yet again tonight. But one also wouldn't expect her to imagine things that were happening IRL (Shelly and Red, Richard and Chad, James and Freddie) that she'd have no knowledge of if she's been comatose or in the Lodges ever since the bank explosion.

Maybe this is just one of those Lynchian puzzles that won't ever line up with a definitive interpretation. Otherwise, it seems like Audrey would have to possess some psychic ability or be "receiving" information through the Lodges for either scenario - that every Roadhouse scene was in her mind or that only tonight's was - to hold up. I guess a third possibility is that she's been conscious and sane for most of her life following the bank explosion, but only recently became delusional and/or entered the Lodges.


As I understand it, all of the Roadhouse performances were filmed on the same day with the same audience extras.


I wouldn't be surprised if some of the those scenes were real and some weren't, just to add to the dreamy feel of the Roadhouse.

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