Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Discussion of each of the 18 parts of Twin Peaks the Return

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Rhiannon
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby Rhiannon » Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:15 am

Amazing episode, this series is unbelievable.I think when Diane mentions she is in the sherrifs station, i wonder if she is the girl sitting in the jail with her eyes and mouth closed?
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tresojos
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby tresojos » Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:16 am

so is richard gone?
anyways. the assault theories were true :roll:
audrey is in a coma indeed.(tbh that scene and audreys dance both normal and reversed felt like a dissociative episode)
diane scene was amazing
cooper waking up was kinda meh...
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tresojos
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby tresojos » Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:18 am

chantal and hutch will be dearly missed. :cry:
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dronerstone
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby dronerstone » Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:19 am

Rhiannon wrote:Amazing episode, this series is unbelievable.I think when Diane mentions she is in the sherrifs station, i wonder if she is the girl sitting in the jail with her eyes and mouth closed?


Naido is Diane? I don't think so at all, although I can not make sense of what she's been saying there. I believve the real Diane is dead.
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby sewhite2000 » Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:20 am

The Mitchem Brothers have certainly proved surprising. Still a bit hard for me to reconcile Cooper's "hearts of gold" assessment with their very first scene, in which they brutally beat that poor casino manager, but as Ragnell points out, this is certainly an example of Lynch and Frost playing with our expectations. They're introduced as pretty stereotypical casino bosses. I personally didn't have much use for them after that initial appearance, though I was a bit intrigued by those stylish pink-clad blondes up against the wall staring off into space.

Anyway, we've gone on to see the Mitchems get bonked in the face with remote controls, have dreams of cherry pie, dance in a conga line, eat cereal together, buy a gym set and fuel up a jet at Cooper's request without even asking what he needs it for. I couldn't have anticipated any of those crazy scenes from their first appearance. Lynch being Lynch I was afraid those pink-clad blondes were going to be subject to violence from them (don't shuffle this off to another thread, Big Ed! I'll just make that one point and move on), but instead we get them softheartedly reminding each other that Candie has "nowhere else to go" and Candie herself affirming they have hearts of gold. The more I've seen of them, the more I ended up liking them.
Last edited by sewhite2000 on Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Ragnell
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby Ragnell » Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:22 am

nonemoreblack wrote:
Ragnell wrote:
nonemoreblack wrote:Another thing that doesn't sit well with me about Cooper going back to Janey-E is that it strikes me as messed up that all the other women who fell for Cooper experienced extreme trauma and are just left to deal with it or met horrific ends while he gets a perfect happy ending. With the way women in The Return have been treated...it's kinda gross imo.


Well, this is why I only like him going with Janey-E over any of the other love interests. The Doppelganger has traumatized Audrey and Diane (probably killed her). Annie experienced the trauma of the Red Room and I hope she's now safe in a convent. They can heal, but not with a twin of their tormentor around. Audrey can still have a happy ending. Annie may have already healed.

Janey-E's life has gotten better with Dale around, though.

And as for Dale... he did spend 25 years in a cryptic hell dimension, doing nothing wrong to be put there. I'm good with him getting a perfect happy ending.

There are issues to be discussed about women in the Return. I've been putting off wading into the Gender thread myself, I want to let it set a bit and see how the big picture is and how Laura's story works out.

However, I don't think compounding Dale's trauma will somehow balance out the problems with gender in this. For one, I see a lot of arguments against heroic men getting married that are mired in a sexist view of women as a distraction from man's true potential and an ending where Dale ends up with Janey-E would counter those. It would also give us a female character who does fall for Dale, does win him, and isn't given extreme trauma as a result. Because viewing her as merely a prize for Dale discounts that Janey-E is one of those very women you describe, and having her treated well would do something to offset the very pattern you describe.


It's not that I want Dale to have a tragic ending. I'd just rather he had a different kind of ending. I see what you're saying, but for me it would just feel like a slap in the face as someone who loved the fact that Audrey's life seemed to have an optimistic future only to become part of that pattern. I have mixed feelings about her situation as it is. With Annie, we can only guess how she ended up, but nobody else in Twin Peaks has exactly had a great 25 years since that happened.


Audrey still has a future, though. And on the bright side her son is dead. I'm thinking with all the focus on her we will see her overcome this. It may not be such a slap when her story plays out.

But if you're an Audrey-Coop shipper, I'm sorry. It does not look likely. I don't think Audrey's path to happiness is in a man, though. She may yet have some self-actualization.
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nonemoreblack
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby nonemoreblack » Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:33 am

Ragnell wrote:
nonemoreblack wrote:
Ragnell wrote:
Well, this is why I only like him going with Janey-E over any of the other love interests. The Doppelganger has traumatized Audrey and Diane (probably killed her). Annie experienced the trauma of the Red Room and I hope she's now safe in a convent. They can heal, but not with a twin of their tormentor around. Audrey can still have a happy ending. Annie may have already healed.

Janey-E's life has gotten better with Dale around, though.

And as for Dale... he did spend 25 years in a cryptic hell dimension, doing nothing wrong to be put there. I'm good with him getting a perfect happy ending.

There are issues to be discussed about women in the Return. I've been putting off wading into the Gender thread myself, I want to let it set a bit and see how the big picture is and how Laura's story works out.

However, I don't think compounding Dale's trauma will somehow balance out the problems with gender in this. For one, I see a lot of arguments against heroic men getting married that are mired in a sexist view of women as a distraction from man's true potential and an ending where Dale ends up with Janey-E would counter those. It would also give us a female character who does fall for Dale, does win him, and isn't given extreme trauma as a result. Because viewing her as merely a prize for Dale discounts that Janey-E is one of those very women you describe, and having her treated well would do something to offset the very pattern you describe.


It's not that I want Dale to have a tragic ending. I'd just rather he had a different kind of ending. I see what you're saying, but for me it would just feel like a slap in the face as someone who loved the fact that Audrey's life seemed to have an optimistic future only to become part of that pattern. I have mixed feelings about her situation as it is. With Annie, we can only guess how she ended up, but nobody else in Twin Peaks has exactly had a great 25 years since that happened.


Audrey still has a future, though. And on the bright side her son is dead. I'm thinking with all the focus on her we will see her overcome this. It may not be such a slap when her story plays out.

But if you're an Audrey-Coop shipper, I'm sorry. It does not look likely. I don't think Audrey's path to happiness is in a man, though. She may yet have some self-actualization.


Oh no, I'm not saying I want them to be together. Regardless of how Audrey's arc finishes - the fact that her dream man (even though it wasn't him) raped her, got her pregnant, and possibly trapped her for 25 years is very upsetting. At the end of the day her pain was caused by a man after he specifically went out of his way to distance himself from her. Audrey being part of that pattern leaves a bad taste in my mouth is all. Diane too for that matter.
Last edited by nonemoreblack on Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby DeepBlueSeed » Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:39 am

Just finished watching. I was smiling so much.

Great to see a good few things confirmed. That the electricity from the socket would awaken him, that Richard was Bad Coop's son, that Diane had been raped. I'd head the Eddie Vedder song before, and it sounded a bit too downbeat to be the final tune of the series, so I'm glad that it came here. Audrey's appearance at the Roadhouse was great - I thought she was in a fantasy world but the fact that she wasn't was a pleasant surprise - and then the whole thing was subverted again and it turns out that she was after all.

Also great to see the unexpected. I hadn't expect Jerry Horne to still be running. I didn't expect Hutch and Chantall to go out the way they did. I had no idea that Diane was a construct, so was surprised when she just blinked out of existence (and, I'll be honest, I'd suspected that she'd probably take down at least one of the FBI agents before she got shot herself, even though they hadn't trusted her).

Loved it. Definitely within my top 3 parts. My only question now, apart from "Where's Audrey?" is "What happened to the original Diane?"
"The stories that I wanna tell you about... "
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby writersblock » Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:40 am

twin-b wrote:
Solitude wrote:Does anyone have a screenshot of Audrey in front of the mirror? I hear she has an Owl Cave tattoo on her arm.


I just looked again and you don't see her arm when she's looking in the mirror. Is the tattoo seen at some other time?


When she was dancing she did seem to have a bruise on her left arm... but couldn't see a tattoo
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Rhiannon
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby Rhiannon » Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:43 am

dronerstone wrote:
Rhiannon wrote:Amazing episode, this series is unbelievable.I think when Diane mentions she is in the sherrifs station, i wonder if she is the girl sitting in the jail with her eyes and mouth closed?


Naido is Diane? I don't think so at all, although I can not make sense of what she's been saying there. I believve the real Diane is dead.


Thankyou, just could'nt remember her name at the time i was writing.
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby BigEd » Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:59 am

sewhite2000 wrote:Lynch being Lynch I was afraid those pink-clad blondes were going to be subject to violence from them (don't shuffle this off to another thread, Big Ed! I'll just make that one point and move on), but instead we get them softheartedly reminding each other that Candie has "nowhere else to go" and Candie herself affirming they have hearts of gold. The more I've seen of them, the more I ended up liking them.


Really?? You were afraid that Lynch was going to have Candy/Mandy/Sandy worked over??

You must be watching a different DL than I have been. You can shuffle off to whatever other thread you want, but this is just crazy talk. Those "pink-clad blondes" will be just fine until the end! 8)
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby Jonah » Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:23 am

Watched this episode when it was released early on NowTV and had to stay quiet.

Highlights of course are Cooper waking up and Audrey dancing. Lots of other good little things too.

I found a lot of the Chantal/Hutch stuff and the first 20 minutes pretty slow though. Didn't do much for me.

So does Audrey's scene render the rest of the Roadhouse stuff as a dream (whatever "dream" means - i.e. not in reality) too? I can see the people speaking in the booth all being part of some sort of dream, along with all the musicians. The only scenes that don't connect with a dream are the ones featuring James and the green glove guy and Shelley, but him approaching Renee and singing "Just You & I" were both bizarre and dream-like too.

I thought it was an episode with some great moments, but I don't know how they will wrap up so many plots in only two more parts, but I'm guessing they won't. I'm also guessing Ed/Nadine/Norma won't appear again (happy to be wrong) and Part 15 really did wrap up their stories.

Oh and great to see TP trending on Twitter again, and it's STILL trending all these hours later. Amy Shiels liked one of my tweets about it which was pretty cool too.
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Rhiannon
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby Rhiannon » Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:27 am

I also really enjoyed the scene in the hospital when Cooper says to Bushnell Mullins that Agent Cole was going to contact him and to read a message to him....i assume it will will tell Cole to meet in TP. Reminded me in the final episode of season 2, when Coopers tells Pete that the Log Lady will be here in 3 minutes,he just knows whats going to happen :D
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby Cooperscoffeecup » Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:36 am

Jonah wrote:Watched this episode when it was released early on NowTV and had to stay quiet.

Oh and great to see TP trending on Twitter again, and it's STILL trending all these hours later. Amy Shiels liked one of my tweets about it which was pretty cool too.


I am following Amy on twitter, and she is awesome. She seems just as excited by this whole series as the fans do. As do many other members of the cast. It is great to see them all so engaged.
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Re: Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

Postby writersblock » Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:51 am

kornishpyxee wrote:
djsunyc wrote:
kornishpyxee wrote:
I'm not sure I understand the difference between the two. Would you please explain it to me?

Thanks,

kornishpyxee


every person has a double- doppleganger.

cooper and then dopplecooper (the one with the white eyes in the season 2 finale).

but you and your doppleganger can create a "tulpa" - using your dna - which is the little gold orb.


But wasn't Dopplecooper "created" when Cooper entered the lodge with "imperfect courage?

kornishpyxee


Cooper didn't enter the Lodge with imperfect courage.

If he did then the Lodge would have completely annihilated his soul.

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