Part 17 - The past dictates the future (SPOILERS)

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Novalis
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Re: Part 17 - The past dictates the future (SPOILERS)

Postby Novalis » Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:34 am

N. Needleman wrote:A Reddit post makes a good case for it being 'Jiao Dai'. Chinese for 'to explain'. Lynch's antithesis.


Lovely; that is lovely.

'I'm not going to talk about Jiao Dai at all; we're going to keep her out of it' :D

And given that dubtitles can easily be wrong, possible.
As a matter of fact, 'Chalfont' was the name of the people that rented this space before. Two Chalfonts. Weird, huh?
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Re: Part 17 - The past dictates the future (SPOILERS)

Postby Saturn's child » Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:51 am

Rhiannon wrote:
LateReg wrote:
Rhiannon wrote:Fantastic episode, slightly disappointed in the Freddie v Bob finale, but it is what it is.One thing i was surprised, it took all of Mr C efforts to get to the White Lodge, but he was immediately sent from there by the Fireman to TP...why was it so important for him to get to the the White Lodge?


I think it was implied that Briggs coordinates, which came off of Ruth Davenport's arm, were meant to get Mr C to the lodge, at which point he would be imprisoned and spit out to the sheriff's station, which would lead to his downfall. That's how I took it, anyway.


Sounds right on, thank you.


Also, before we see (the trees out front of) the sheriff's station on the Fireman's screen, there's a shot of the Palmer house (which Firey swipes away); possibly, if Mr C had agency in the White Lodge, he would've been able to transport to the first image, where Sarah is housing the Experiment/Mother?
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Re: Part 17 - The past dictates the future (SPOILERS)

Postby Hester Prynne » Mon Sep 04, 2017 8:15 am

Saturn's child wrote:
Also, before we see (the trees out front of) the sheriff's station on the Fireman's screen, there's a shot of the Palmer house (which Firey swipes away); possibly, if Mr C had agency in the White Lodge, he would've been able to transport to the first image, where Sarah is housing the Experiment/Mother?


Thanks for mentioning this. That's what I thought, too. Briggs and Cooper were trying to locate Judy, so maybe Mr. C should have ended up at the Palmer house had the Fireman not intervened. Of course, why wouldn't the coordinates have led straight to the Palmer house instead of just Jack Rabbit's palace? Maybe he had to be at Jack Rabbit's Palace at a specific time, and he would be transported to the house in a different dimension via the White Lodge? Also, the whole "it's in our house now," makes me wonder if the Fireman was talking about the Palmer house. I don't know what any of this means!
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Re: Part 17 - The past dictates the future (SPOILERS)

Postby TwinsPeak » Mon Sep 04, 2017 8:17 am

hopesfall wrote:Laura seeing Coop in the woods during the FWWM footage is probably one of my favourite moments of Twin Peaks.


I feel the exact same way...it gave that already powerful scene even more meaning...really beautiful how he made them mesh together...I also wonder if Laura was telling James that she isnt the real Laura, but not sure about that. I'm starting to think all of the Palmers are "spirits'
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Re: Part 17 - The past dictates the future (SPOILERS)

Postby Cipher » Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:33 am

TwinsPeak wrote:
hopesfall wrote:Laura seeing Coop in the woods during the FWWM footage is probably one of my favourite moments of Twin Peaks.


I feel the exact same way...it gave that already powerful scene even more meaning...really beautiful how he made them mesh together...I also wonder if Laura was telling James that she isnt the real Laura, but not sure about that. I'm starting to think all of the Palmers are "spirits'

That scene drew tears from me, particularly when I thought about the fact that Cooper's "I was twenty-five years older" line from the original run was now given the purpose of allowing Laura to recognize him when she saw his future self.

Just a beautiful enmeshing of their two characters and events from both the new material and the original run.
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Re: Part 17 - The past dictates the future (SPOILERS)

Postby vicksvapor77 » Mon Sep 04, 2017 10:27 am

hopesfall wrote:Laura seeing Coop in the woods during the FWWM footage is probably one of my favourite moments of Twin Peaks.


The entire sequence confused me. Did Laura scream when she saw Cooper standing there in 1989? Or talk to him in the woods in 1989? So baffling.
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Re: Part 17 - The past dictates the future (SPOILERS)

Postby claaa7 » Mon Sep 04, 2017 11:10 am

Novalis wrote:I don't have subtitles. Did anyone with subtitles catch Cole's rendition of the name of Judy from ancient times? Jou Dei, Djoudai? Jowdae?


Jowday according to the Swedish subtitles on HBO Nordic, that doesn't sound right though

EDIT - i see that Fortinbra beat me to it
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Re: Part 17 - The past dictates the future (SPOILERS)

Postby claaa7 » Mon Sep 04, 2017 11:14 am

vicksvapor77 wrote:
hopesfall wrote:Laura seeing Coop in the woods during the FWWM footage is probably one of my favourite moments of Twin Peaks.


The entire sequence confused me. Did Laura scream when she saw Cooper standing there in 1989? Or talk to him in the woods in 1989? So baffling.


yes, in 1989.. it seems he asked Jeffries to take him to that specific date in the scene just preceding it
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Re: Part 17 - The past dictates the future (SPOILERS)

Postby vicksvapor77 » Mon Sep 04, 2017 11:33 am

claaa7 wrote:
vicksvapor77 wrote:
hopesfall wrote:Laura seeing Coop in the woods during the FWWM footage is probably one of my favourite moments of Twin Peaks.


The entire sequence confused me. Did Laura scream when she saw Cooper standing there in 1989? Or talk to him in the woods in 1989? So baffling.


yes, in 1989.. it seems he asked Jeffries to take him to that specific date in the scene just preceding it


I mean, did Laura interact with Cooper in the original timeline as well?
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Re: Part 17 - The past dictates the future (SPOILERS)

Postby claaa7 » Mon Sep 04, 2017 11:34 am

vicksvapor77 wrote:
claaa7 wrote:
vicksvapor77 wrote:
The entire sequence confused me. Did Laura scream when she saw Cooper standing there in 1989? Or talk to him in the woods in 1989? So baffling.


yes, in 1989.. it seems he asked Jeffries to take him to that specific date in the scene just preceding it


I mean, did Laura interact with Cooper in the original timeline as well?


both :) that's how altering the past must work, it must have happened once for anyone to be able to alter it. but once it's been altered it never happened.. confusing, i know
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Re: Part 17 - The past dictates the future (SPOILERS)

Postby Novalis » Mon Sep 04, 2017 12:32 pm

claaa7 wrote:
vicksvapor77 wrote:
claaa7 wrote:
yes, in 1989.. it seems he asked Jeffries to take him to that specific date in the scene just preceding it


I mean, did Laura interact with Cooper in the original timeline as well?


both :) that's how altering the past must work, it must have happened once for anyone to be able to alter it. but once it's been altered it never happened.. confusing, i know


That's how it works in the 2002 film The Time Machine starring Guy Pearce, Jeremy Irons, Orlando Jones, and Samantha Mumba. While it's not a particularly great movie, Jeremy Irons is good as the chief Morlock. He lectures the time traveller (Pearce) on why trying to go back in time and prevent the death of his fiancée can never work viz. his desire to do so springs from her death. The chain of events that puts him in a position to save her -- researching the physics, writing the equations, building the time machine, piloting it, and arriving at the right date in the past -- all have their basis in the fact that she dies, and so cannot as a consequence change that basis. In order for him to go back and attempt to prevent it happening, it must always have happened: he is trapped in the causality of a chain of events. Some events are, according to this view, made inevitable by the very attempt to fix them.

I have a hard time imagining Lynch doing this, but at the same time all our interpretations are our interpretations. I have no 'better' idea what it 'means' than anyone else.
As a matter of fact, 'Chalfont' was the name of the people that rented this space before. Two Chalfonts. Weird, huh?
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Re: Part 17 - The past dictates the future (SPOILERS)

Postby Novalis » Mon Sep 04, 2017 12:46 pm

I'm still at a loss at how to log my reactions and commentary on these final two parts. My only thoughts right now can probably be summed up by saying that they were 'mesmerising' and 'devastatingly beautiful' (or beautifully devastating). Other than that I'm pretty much lost for words -- something that has not happened to me via TV before, and only rarely by films.

I'll get back to these threads in a few days when it has all sunk in and I've had a rewatch or two.
As a matter of fact, 'Chalfont' was the name of the people that rented this space before. Two Chalfonts. Weird, huh?
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Re: Part 17 - The past dictates the future (SPOILERS)

Postby tlk » Mon Sep 04, 2017 1:05 pm

Novalis wrote:That's how it works in the 2002 film The Time Machine starring Guy Pearce, Jeremy Irons, Orlando Jones, and Samantha Mumba. While it's not a particularly great movie, Jeremy Irons is good as the chief Morlock. He lectures the time traveller (Pearce) on why trying to go back in time and prevent the death of his fiancée can never work viz. his desire to do so springs from her death. The chain of events that puts him in a position to save her -- researching the physics, writing the equations, building the time machine, piloting it, and arriving at the right date in the past -- all have their basis in the fact that she dies, and so cannot as a consequence change that basis. In order for him to go back and attempt to prevent it happening, it must always have happened: he is trapped in the causality of a chain of events. Some events are, according to this view, made inevitable by the very attempt to fix them.

Hey, sounds interesting this concept. I'd say a good and sensible take on a (usually silly) trope.
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Re: Part 17 - The past dictates the future (SPOILERS)

Postby cowwithfivelegs » Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:54 pm

Saturn's child wrote:
Rhiannon wrote:
LateReg wrote:
I think it was implied that Briggs coordinates, which came off of Ruth Davenport's arm, were meant to get Mr C to the lodge, at which point he would be imprisoned and spit out to the sheriff's station, which would lead to his downfall. That's how I took it, anyway.


Sounds right on, thank you.


Also, before we see (the trees out front of) the sheriff's station on the Fireman's screen, there's a shot of the Palmer house (which Firey swipes away); possibly, if Mr C had agency in the White Lodge, he would've been able to transport to the first image, where Sarah is housing the Experiment/Mother?


Yes, if it wasn't for the Fireman, Mr. C would've gotten what he wanted.
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Re: Part 17 - The past dictates the future (SPOILERS)

Postby ThumbsUp » Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:52 pm

Why did real Diane's face hatch out of a frog-bug egg? Because she was being trapped by evil?

Did the jail drunk peel off a wound in the same place Rodney Mitchum did?

Is the White Lodge cage similar to the NYC box?

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