Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Discussion of each of the 18 parts of Twin Peaks the Return

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Jasper
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Jasper » Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:08 pm

HaroldSmith wrote:For some reason Carrie/Laura's horseshoe necklace made me think of the casino. I can't draw a solid connection but I don't think it's a coincidence either.


Judy's diner was filled with rodeo pictures. Inside Carrie/Laura's house there was a white horse in front of a blue plate (and this caught Cooper's attention just after he'd been looking at the dead man in the chair).

It's interesting that the pendant was upside down from the way that a lucky horseshoe would be displayed. When they're like the one around Carrie/Laura's neck, the luck is said to be running out. When they're the other way around, it's like a glass which holds luck. Just do an image search for "horseshoe pendant" and you'll see that they're overwhelmingly rotated 180 degrees from Carrie's/Laura's pendant.


horseshoe.jpg
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Carrie.jpg
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blue_tomorrows
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby blue_tomorrows » Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:09 pm

BGate wrote:
Jonah wrote:I'm curious why James Marshall was happy with the role he was given. Didn't he mention something about being important and having a great character arc? I feel his role was disjointed and cut short. Ditto Audrey - but Sherilyn Fenn said she was happy with what she'd been given too, though at least her arc was more intriguing.

Shelley/Madchen Amick's arc literally went nowhere too. (Not to mention Becky's.) So many others too.

But I think the most disappointing use of a returning character overall was Ray Wise's Leland. He returned to say two words "Find Laura" twice. And that - unbelievably - was it. Sarah's role was very disappointing too. It had so much potential and then it just sort of....ended. (And somehow she returned to the Palmer house and wasn't arrested after that incident at the bar.)

Speaking of Ray Wise.... Does anyone else feel that the Palmer "scene" Lynch scripted and filmed for the Blu-Ray was a lot more satisfying than this season overall? At least for the Palmer characters?


It's almost as if arcs weren't the point. The good thing is if we want that we can watch literally any other show that's ever been on television.


Sure, but then why have them at all, if they serve no purpose to the story or the themes?
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chromereflectsimage
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby chromereflectsimage » Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:10 pm

Jonah wrote:I wonder if Carrie Page is an anagram?

Paige is Beverly's last name. Not sure that means anything though
lotjx2
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby lotjx2 » Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:10 pm

That sound you hear is a fandom tearing itself apart. Episode 17 was amazing stuff though. Everything I wanted. Could have left it there maybe saved Audrey, maybe she is in room 315 or you know something. Nope...we did that. An announcement for Season 4 had better come like nowish.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby dougguitar » Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:11 pm

Wally Brando wrote:
garethw wrote:Erm... anyone even mention the dead guy in Laura/Carrie's house?

Never mind the dead guy, did you see the white horse on the mantle?


There was a white horse out in front of Judy's diner, too.
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Yps
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Yps » Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:12 pm

Yeah. I took that upsidedown horseshoe to represent the mathematical (set theory) symbol for an intersection between two different sets. i.e., the overlapping part of a Venn diagram. So Carrie and Laura are the intersection between these two different realities.


Jasper wrote:
HaroldSmith wrote:For some reason Carrie/Laura's horseshoe necklace made me think of the casino. I can't draw a solid connection but I don't think it's a coincidence either.


Judy's diner was filled with rodeo pictures. Inside Carrie/Laura's house there was a white horse in front of a blue plate (and this caught Cooper's attention just after he'd been looking at the dead man in the chair).

It's interesting that the pendant was upside down from the way that a lucky horseshoe would be displayed. When they're like the one around Carrie/Laura's neck, the luck is said to be running out. When they're the other way around, it's like a glass which holds luck. Just do an image search for "horseshoe pendant" and you'll see that they're overwhelmingly rotated 180 degrees from Carrie's/Laura's pendant.


horseshoe.jpg

Carrie.jpg
richsmith
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby richsmith » Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:12 pm

Wally Brando wrote:
richsmith wrote:
Wally Brando wrote:Genuinely astonished by how many people there are that didn't enjoy 18, to the point where there are multiple posters claiming they're in tears at how awful it was.

I'd rate it as my second favourite episode of The Return after 8. Loved it.

I think tonight's reaction is almost identical to what I remember after Series 2's finale. The vocal majority absolutely detested it, a passionate minority adored and defended it. Of course, Season 2's ending is now considered one of the all-time greats, and I suspect The Return's equivalent will come to be seen the same way in time. Either way, you simply have to be amazed and impressed by Lynch and Frost's uncompromising vision... and the fact that they clearly have incredibly large testicles.

I can certainly remember being shellshocked by the original ending, and bring elated when the film was announced / outraged when it was announced it was a prequel.

This time around I found the final episode absolutely perfect.

The one criticism I do agree with is that the last 2 parts rendered a lot of the previous 16 episodes irrelevant. As entertaining as it almost all was, unless there is another season, I'm not sure how much I'll care about a lot of it, as parts 8 and 18 to me were just so much better than everything else. Just watched 18 again, and it's captivating and chilling at the same time, phenomenal.

I agree that parts 8 and 18 were the stand-outs, but I disagree with the rest of your post. Even the seemingly lesser episodes had moments or scenes that would count as high points in most directors' entire filmographies. And I don't believe that the ending makes the first 17 episodes irrelevant. As with Mulholland Drive and other Lynch projects that delve into dream logic and identity confusion, the reveals are never so simple as to invalidate what went before.
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AgentEcho
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby AgentEcho » Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:12 pm

BGate wrote:
AgentEcho wrote:
BGate wrote:
It wasn't intentional but yeah, you can't spoil something that is literally indecipherable to begin with.


I don't know enough about the situation to know if it were intentional or not, bit quite honestly wouldn't surprise me if it were intentional. I've gotten the sense of Lynch wanting to play with expectations throughout, and the lax security around filming what they clearly knew was the end of the season if not the show just seems fitting as a particularly subversive extension of that.


IIRC it was after this that the whole "Keep the Mystery Alive"/anti-spoiler message began coming out from the production, and supposedly Lynch himself. The powers that be here could probably speak more specifically on that.


Well I shouldn't get into the game of trying to decode Lynch's intentions anyway. But I think there's something kind of interesting that happened with that leak. It was out there and it became part of the experience of the Return, even for those who didn't see the spoiler (it was obvious how much that influenced fan speculation, for example.)

There's a lot of existential questions the finale wants us to ask ourselves, particularly about why we go where we go and what we expect when we get there, and this leak getting out there just seems like a fitting punctuation. Though I guess every question needs one.
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Cappy
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Cappy » Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:14 pm

richsmith wrote:Does anyone have any thoughts about the incredibly disturbing Sarah Palmer scene, in which she smashes and stabs at the iconic Laura prom queen photograph? I'm assuming it's not a coincidence that right after it Laura disappears from Cooper's sight?


I kind of read it as whatever is occupying Sarah (Jumping Man, The Experiment...) reacting to Cooper changing the timeline. If Laura is still alive and well, then Sarah isn't a grieving hot mess, and the occupying spirit in her can't feast on her pain and sorrow (garmonbozia) anymore. In fact, they'd lost the past 25 years of Sarah's pain, so they did some Lodge magic and shuttled Laura away before Coop could take her to the White Lodge / Fireman's House.
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N. Needleman
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby N. Needleman » Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:14 pm

Cappy wrote:
richsmith wrote:Does anyone have any thoughts about the incredibly disturbing Sarah Palmer scene, in which she smashes and stabs at the iconic Laura prom queen photograph? I'm assuming it's not a coincidence that right after it Laura disappears from Cooper's sight?


I kind of read it as whatever is occupying Sarah (Jumping Man, The Experiment...) reacting to Cooper changing the timeline. If Laura is still alive and well, then Sarah isn't a grieving hot mess, and the occupying spirit in her can't feast on her pain and sorrow (garmonbozia) anymore.


Agreed. But I think it may actually be a whole other timeline, so the existing one is still out there.
AnotherBlueRoseCase wrote:The Return is clearly guaranteed a future audience among stoners and other drug users.
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John Justice Wheeler
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby John Justice Wheeler » Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:16 pm

Wally Brando wrote:Genuinely astonished by how many people there are that didn't enjoy 18, to the point where there are multiple posters claiming they're in tears at how awful it was.

I'd rate it as my second favourite episode of The Return after 8. Loved it.

Yes. With you 100%. I wish more of it could have been like this. To me it's not so much about "retconning" as it is about liberating the imagination. Positioning the big climactic cartoon confrontation at the very beginning of part 17 is indication that DL is after much bigger game than this. The context makes all the difference.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Cooperscoffeecup » Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:18 pm

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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby SpookyDollhouse » Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:18 pm

Thoughts on the episodes aside, can we talk about Sheryl Lee's performance? She's absolutely riveting. Put her in more stuff PLEASE.
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Yps
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Yps » Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:19 pm

Near the end of episode 18, Laura whispers into Cooper's ear in the Black Lodge, and he replies "Huh"? "Huh" is a palindrome. Maybe his response is indicative of the alternate reality where things appear to be the same, but are actually aligned in a different order.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby crash_and_burn » Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:19 pm

lotjx2 wrote:That sound you hear is a fandom tearing itself apart. Episode 17 was amazing stuff though. Everything I wanted. Could have left it there maybe saved Audrey, maybe she is in room 315 or you know something. Nope...we did that. An announcement for Season 4 had better come like nowish.


I'm a fanboy, through and through.

Yet, I feel duped ... and I feel that buying a Blu-Ray box set is not in my future any longer.

Neither is the purchase of Frost's next book. I'll check it out at the library.

Oh, and Showtime, you're gonna lose my money.

Seriously, fuck this shit cliffhanger ending.

It's so contrived.

Just announce Season 4 already.

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