Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Discussion of each of the 18 parts of Twin Peaks the Return

Moderators: BookhouseBoyBob, Ross, Jerry Horne, Brad D, Annie

NewtoTwinPeaks
Posts: 51
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:18 am

Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby NewtoTwinPeaks » Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:20 pm

I didn't really like the romance angle with Cooper and Diane. I felt they should've kept it a professional relationship.

I also felt Diane was very flat as a character, other than episode 9 and the great scene with Bad Coop.
Cooperscoffeecup
Posts: 195
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2015 8:54 pm
Location: Australia

Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Cooperscoffeecup » Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:22 pm

yaxomoxay wrote:
Cooperscoffeecup wrote:Seems like Julee Cruise isn't happy at all. Her post on facebook "I'm done. and I could care Less about TP. My subconscious never lies......I have my answer now of what I will do with the rest of my life!" To quote one of her replies on facebook " I don't like The David Lynch Sabrina Southerland Attitude toward me, and I Will Never Work for The Emperor Again..thank God!" WOW


Yep! She is pissed!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Wow Sherilyn Fenn before filming and Julee Cruise after. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you.....
User avatar
ThumbsUp
Posts: 293
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:05 pm

Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby ThumbsUp » Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:23 pm

N. Needleman wrote:
Candie wrote:
N. Needleman wrote:
I wasn't either, but in hindsight we should've seen it coming - the vicious twist in the tail is there in so much of his past-FWWM work. I thought both IE's ending - and his stated objective for The Return - precluded that here. I was wrong.

And yeah - I was depressed, scarred, shaken. But I also think it was fucking brilliant Lynch.

Really curious what you think was brilliant because all I'm seeing here is bad writing.


What would you like me to say? I thought the lighting, cutting, performances, sound design were stellar. I thought the ending, while brutal, fit both Lynch and especially Frost's conception of Cooper - from the ancillary materials like his autobiography, from the back half of Season 2 and particularly from episode 29 - as a flawed hero with a savior complex that is his undoing. He tries to roll back the truth of unalterable trauma and pain (Laura's death) just as he ran from his ghosts in the Red Room in 29, but instead is lost in limbo.


"A flawed hero with a savior complex that is his undoing." I think you nailed it. Twin Peaks has always been about duality and shadow selves, and season 3 was promised to be his journey back to the town, and part 18 had all of it.

This time, leaving the Lodge and vanquishing the doppelganger weren't enough - he had to go and try and save Laura and alter time, but he done goofed. Time traveling, or universe skimming, or whatever he did, seemed to blow up in his face.
User avatar
nonemoreblack
Posts: 106
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 3:44 am

Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby nonemoreblack » Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:24 pm

NewtoTwinPeaks wrote:I didn't really like the romance angle with Cooper and Diane. I felt they should've kept it a professional relationship.

I also felt Diane was very flat as a character, other than episode 9 and the great scene with Bad Coop.


I didn't like that either. Didn't make sense with how Cooper talked to her in the original series, and like he just completely forgot about Annie? And especially after what happened with the DoppleCoop. I wanted to like Diane, but I felt nothing for her.
User avatar
N. Needleman
Posts: 2070
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:39 pm

Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby N. Needleman » Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:25 pm

NewtoTwinPeaks wrote:I didn't really like the romance angle with Cooper and Diane. I felt they should've kept it a professional relationship.


I felt like Cooper insistently going for it with Diane - who seemed hesitant, IMO - was a sign of his cockiness and pride before the fall. I think it was supposed to feel off from the start, though I was okay with them kissing once at the station. The minute he came out at Glastonberry Grove and she asked if it was him, I thought something was off.
AnotherBlueRoseCase wrote:The Return is clearly guaranteed a future audience among stoners and other drug users.
User avatar
rugerblackhawk357
Posts: 48
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 7:57 pm

Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby rugerblackhawk357 » Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:26 pm

twin peaks is stupid
Sometimes i wish i was better off dead. No wait. Not me. You.
sewhite2000
Posts: 249
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:17 am

Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby sewhite2000 » Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:26 pm

N. Needleman wrote:I think if there is a Season 4, whatever happened with Audrey is crucial. I believe there was material cut there.

As for Diane: I think once they crossed over the border, she became "Linda" - she was not protected from the reality shift as Dale was. He warned her things might be different, but he didn't know how much. Once they cross Diane is Linda but Dale is still Dale, not Richard, and to Linda/Diane she is making love to a strange, corrupted stranger. So she leaves. (I also think Cooper felt cocky and ascendent after destroying? BOB - before they cross, he makes advances on Diane, who seems willing but hesitant given the past. Cooper does not notice.)

And the Dale who crossed over is a strange corruption, a meld of our Coop with his doppelganger, corrupted by his new original sin, full of imperfect courage, more appetities and confusion - after violating the past to save a girl in trouble.

In the end Lynch and Frost made Dale Cooper into another of Lynch's latter-day antiheroes, plumbing his depths like Diane/Betty in MD or Fred/Pete in LH. His fatal flaws warp his world and damn him to the abyss.

If the show goes forward, IMO it will not be down to Hero Cooper to save reality. He is too in love with being the Special Agent. Like episode 29, he has never gotten over the spectre of Caroline, the original woman he could not save.


I like a lot of what you are saying here, but why did Dale and Diane have to "cross over" in the first place? Crossing over to what? Diane tries to talk Dale out of it, it seems. It seemed as if their new reality took a while to fully manifest. It is not until morning that Diane thinks of herself as Linda and Cooper as Richard. A different motel. A different car. A more populated area. What does it all mean?
NewtoTwinPeaks
Posts: 51
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:18 am

Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby NewtoTwinPeaks » Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:27 pm

nonemoreblack wrote:
NewtoTwinPeaks wrote:I didn't really like the romance angle with Cooper and Diane. I felt they should've kept it a professional relationship.

I also felt Diane was very flat as a character, other than episode 9 and the great scene with Bad Coop.


I didn't like that either. Didn't make sense with how Cooper talked to her in the original series, and like he just completely forgot about Annie? And especially after what happened with the DoppleCoop. I wanted to like Diane, but I felt nothing for her.


Yup, and I felt they didn't give Laura Dern much to work with, she was mostly in the background after episode 7. I warmed up more to Naomi Watts' character actually as I think they gave her more material and she did great with it.
NewtoTwinPeaks
Posts: 51
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:18 am

Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby NewtoTwinPeaks » Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:28 pm

N. Needleman wrote:
NewtoTwinPeaks wrote:I didn't really like the romance angle with Cooper and Diane. I felt they should've kept it a professional relationship.


I felt like Cooper insistently going for it with Diane - who seemed hesitant, IMO - was a sign of his cockiness and pride before the fall. I think it was supposed to feel off from the start, though I was okay with them kissing once at the station. The minute he came out at Glastonberry Grove and she asked if it was him, I thought something was off.


I did feel off with Cooper ever since he came out from the Red Room in the end.
User avatar
ThumbsUp
Posts: 293
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:05 pm

Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby ThumbsUp » Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:29 pm

nonemoreblack wrote:
NewtoTwinPeaks wrote:I didn't really like the romance angle with Cooper and Diane. I felt they should've kept it a professional relationship.

I also felt Diane was very flat as a character, other than episode 9 and the great scene with Bad Coop.


I didn't like that either. Didn't make sense with how Cooper talked to her in the original series, and like he just completely forgot about Annie? And especially after what happened with the DoppleCoop. I wanted to like Diane, but I felt nothing for her.


Was it romance though? The sex scene seemed more like they were acting out a ritual that was all part of their plan but I can't make sense of it. If tulpas really do share the real person's memories, it seemed like Diane/Coop's romance might've been more a fling (the kiss "only happened once before").
sewhite2000
Posts: 249
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:17 am

Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby sewhite2000 » Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:29 pm

N. Needleman wrote:
Ross wrote:I agree with pretty much all of this. But at the same time I find it extremely depressing. I really wasn't expecting such a downer ending of Cooper failing once again.


I wasn't either, but in hindsight we should've seen it coming - the vicious twist in the tail is there in so much of his past-FWWM work. I thought both IE's ending - and his stated objective for The Return - precluded that here. I was wrong.

And yeah - I was depressed, scarred, shaken. But I also think it was fucking brilliant Lynch.


What was his stated objective for the return?
User avatar
nonemoreblack
Posts: 106
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 3:44 am

Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby nonemoreblack » Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:30 pm

NewtoTwinPeaks wrote:
nonemoreblack wrote:
NewtoTwinPeaks wrote:I didn't really like the romance angle with Cooper and Diane. I felt they should've kept it a professional relationship.

I also felt Diane was very flat as a character, other than episode 9 and the great scene with Bad Coop.


I didn't like that either. Didn't make sense with how Cooper talked to her in the original series, and like he just completely forgot about Annie? And especially after what happened with the DoppleCoop. I wanted to like Diane, but I felt nothing for her.


Yup, and I felt they didn't give Laura Dern much to work with, she was mostly in the background after episode 7. I warmed up more to Naomi Watts' character actually as I think they gave her more material and she did great with it.


Agreed. Janey-E was easily one of the best new characters. She was great.
Metamorphia
Posts: 346
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2015 4:52 am

Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Metamorphia » Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:31 pm

Mother of god.

I don't know what I feel right now exactly but that final shot is haunting beyond words can describe.
User avatar
N. Needleman
Posts: 2070
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:39 pm

Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby N. Needleman » Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:32 pm

sewhite2000 wrote:I like a lot of what you are saying here, but why did Dale and Diane have to "cross over" in the first place? Crossing over to what?


Another reality? The results of Coop's actions in 1989? We're all just winging it here, it's David Lynch.

Diane tries to talk Dale out of it, it seems. It seemed as if their new reality took a while to fully manifest. It is not until morning that Diane thinks of herself as Linda and Cooper as Richard.


I think she seemed off the moment they crossed. But who knows.
AnotherBlueRoseCase wrote:The Return is clearly guaranteed a future audience among stoners and other drug users.
Cipher
Posts: 250
Joined: Thu May 04, 2017 7:20 pm

Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Cipher » Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:34 pm

sewhite2000 wrote:I like a lot of what you are saying here, but why did Dale and Diane have to "cross over" in the first place? Crossing over to what? Diane tries to talk Dale out of it, it seems. It seemed as if their new reality took a while to fully manifest. It is not until morning that Diane thinks of herself as Linda and Cooper as Richard. A different motel. A different car. A more populated area. What does it all mean?

Crossing over to the alternate world where Cooper senses/understands Laura has been sent, as a result of his actions or otherwise, I assumed.

Diane asking if he was sure meant, "Do you want to stay in this world where we understand everything (at the expense of going after Laura)?"

Return to “Parts Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests