Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

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ThumbsUp
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Post by ThumbsUp »

Metamorphia wrote:Mother of god.

I don't know what I feel right now exactly but that final shot is haunting beyond words can describe.
Yeah, I'm going to have a hard time sleeping tonight. (Not a complaint, because that's how much it affected me.) Twin Peaks has always scared and disturbed me though. This finale was more existential fear in nature.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Post by bob_wooler »

"I'll take you for a walk" Part 18 was Coop jumping over to another branch on the sycamore tree. :shock:
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Post by N. Needleman »

sewhite2000 wrote:What was his stated objective for the return?
Closure, not leaving us all hanging like episode 29. But he may have been fibbing.
AnotherBlueRoseCase wrote:The Return is clearly guaranteed a future audience among stoners and other drug users.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Post by rugerblackhawk357 »

Cipher wrote:
sewhite2000 wrote:I like a lot of what you are saying here, but why did Dale and Diane have to "cross over" in the first place? Crossing over to what? Diane tries to talk Dale out of it, it seems. It seemed as if their new reality took a while to fully manifest. It is not until morning that Diane thinks of herself as Linda and Cooper as Richard. A different motel. A different car. A more populated area. What does it all mean?
Crossing over to the alternate world where Cooper senses/understands Laura has been sent, as a result of his actions or otherwise, I assumed.

Diane asking if he was sure meant, "Do you want to stay in this world where we understand everything (at the expense of going after Laura)?"
we had 18 episodes. 18 episodes to make season 2 last episode into 21st century television gold. this is a dumpster fire. this is wrong.
Sometimes i wish i was better off dead. No wait. Not me. You.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Post by NewtoTwinPeaks »

What was up with Diane seeing herself btw at that motel? Who was the real Diane?

Also, was there any other mention of that device in Argentina? There was a lady that sent a message, and it turned to a pebble, if I remember correctly.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Post by nonemoreblack »

ThumbsUp wrote:
nonemoreblack wrote:
NewtoTwinPeaks wrote:I didn't really like the romance angle with Cooper and Diane. I felt they should've kept it a professional relationship.

I also felt Diane was very flat as a character, other than episode 9 and the great scene with Bad Coop.
I didn't like that either. Didn't make sense with how Cooper talked to her in the original series, and like he just completely forgot about Annie? And especially after what happened with the DoppleCoop. I wanted to like Diane, but I felt nothing for her.
Was it romance though? The sex scene seemed more like they were acting out a ritual that was all part of their plan but I can't make sense of it. If tulpas really do share the real person's memories, it seemed like Diane/Coop's romance might've been more a fling (the kiss "only happened once before").
I guess I'm having trouble understanding Cooper's motives after his personality change. What was Cooper suddenly turning into Mr. C supposed to mean? He had those dead eyes - was that just Diane's imagination, or was he remembering Mr. C's memories there? I felt like both of them were off compared to when Naido first turns back into Diane.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Post by N. Needleman »

I don't think he was Mr. C. I do think elements of his doppelganger were now heightened in the warped, askew alternate reality. His shadow self is a part of him, and the world was out of balance.
AnotherBlueRoseCase wrote:The Return is clearly guaranteed a future audience among stoners and other drug users.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Post by Cipher »

We'd only ever gotten slightly dishonest shades of the true Cooper, from that perspective: exaggerated heroism and, this season, exaggerated villainy. As soon as he exits the Lodge the second time, elements of both are present. (He still appears to be basically good, but he isn't a walking angelic light; he has shades of Mr. C's aloof menace.)

The one thing I was banking on the whole season was that the "doppelganger" was going to bear weight on Cooper in some kind of emotional way, rather than simply being a villainous clone. Coming to terms with shades and duplicity has always been one of Twin Peaks' core fascinations (not to mention the resolution to Laura's arc in the original run). Various characters, Jeffries included, have pointed toward the doppelgangers being connected to the true self as well.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Post by rugerblackhawk357 »

Cipher wrote:We'd only ever gotten slightly dishonest shades of the true Cooper, from that perspective: exaggerated heroism and, this season, exaggerated villainy. As soon as he exits the Lodge the second time, elements of both are present. (He still appears to be basically good, but he isn't a walking angelic light; he has shades of Mr. C's aloof menace.)

The one thing I was banking on the whole season was that the "doppelganger" was going to bear weight on Cooper in some kind of emotional way, rather than simply being a villainous clone. Coming to terms with shades and duplicity has always been one of Twin Peaks' core fascinations (not to mention the resolution to Laura's arc in the original run). Various characters, Jeffries included, have pointed toward the doppelgangers being connected to the true self as well.
but 18 hours. 18 hours man. this could have been what it promised. why did lynch do this?
Sometimes i wish i was better off dead. No wait. Not me. You.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Post by nonemoreblack »

N. Needleman wrote:I don't think he was Mr. C. I do think elements of his doppelganger were now heightened in the warped, askew alternate reality. His shadow self is a part of him, and the world was out of balance.
That makes sense I suppose. That's hard to take. We only got the old Cooper for that brief moment after such a long wait...

From a story point of view it's interesting, but man it makes me feel like he died, and I want to cry.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Post by sewhite2000 »

Cipher wrote:
sewhite2000 wrote:I like a lot of what you are saying here, but why did Dale and Diane have to "cross over" in the first place? Crossing over to what? Diane tries to talk Dale out of it, it seems. It seemed as if their new reality took a while to fully manifest. It is not until morning that Diane thinks of herself as Linda and Cooper as Richard. A different motel. A different car. A more populated area. What does it all mean?
Crossing over to the alternate world where Cooper senses/understands Laura has been sent, as a result of his actions or otherwise, I assumed.

Diane asking if he was sure meant, "Do you want to stay in this world where we understand everything (at the expense of going after Laura)?"
I'm finally caught up reading all 25 pages. I don't know if I'm ready for this to be Summary of Everything I Feel About the Season post. I do like your explanation that Cooper sensed Laura had been sent to another world. I didn't catch that while watching. I didn't really understand why Cooper wanted to travel to another reality.

Okay, I'm not expecting that I'll every truly understand this, but I think tonight I will just ask a few more questions rather than make my great summation of how I felt about the whole thing:

1) Of course, the lack of seeing any familiar Twin Peaks characters in the final return to TP (we got more than one!) leaves us at a loss to know what else might be different other than the Palmer house ownership and the Double R sign. But if Dale knowingly crossed into another reality or plane of existence, should he really be surprised that things might be different, like Tremonds living in the Palmer house? I mean, this is already a reality where Laura is a a waitress in Odessa, Texas. He seems really thrown for a loop that Sarah Palmer didn't open the door. For that matter, why would be hung up on what year it was, when just the fact of being in an alternate plane of existence could explain realities being different?

Okay, well, maybe that's my only question for right now. My brain is pretty fried.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Post by Cipher »

rugerblackhawk357 wrote:but 18 hours. 18 hours man. this could have been what it promised. why did lynch do this?
Why is it on me to address your personal dissatisfaction when I don't share it? Either take in other people's readings, or be content in having misgivings.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Post by SpookyDollhouse »

rugerblackhawk357 wrote:
Cipher wrote:We'd only ever gotten slightly dishonest shades of the true Cooper, from that perspective: exaggerated heroism and, this season, exaggerated villainy. As soon as he exits the Lodge the second time, elements of both are present. (He still appears to be basically good, but he isn't a walking angelic light; he has shades of Mr. C's aloof menace.)

The one thing I was banking on the whole season was that the "doppelganger" was going to bear weight on Cooper in some kind of emotional way, rather than simply being a villainous clone. Coming to terms with shades and duplicity has always been one of Twin Peaks' core fascinations (not to mention the resolution to Laura's arc in the original run). Various characters, Jeffries included, have pointed toward the doppelgangers being connected to the true self as well.
but 18 hours. 18 hours man. this could have been what it promised. why did lynch do this?
Because it's what he wanted to do and it's what he promised but not in the way you saw and perceived he promised as such.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Post by Saela »

At one point during this Part I laughed out loud because I couldn't believe what was happening (not that I understood much of it). Thank you David, I think I love you more than ever.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Post by N. Needleman »

rugerblackhawk357 wrote:
Cipher wrote:We'd only ever gotten slightly dishonest shades of the true Cooper, from that perspective: exaggerated heroism and, this season, exaggerated villainy. As soon as he exits the Lodge the second time, elements of both are present. (He still appears to be basically good, but he isn't a walking angelic light; he has shades of Mr. C's aloof menace.)

The one thing I was banking on the whole season was that the "doppelganger" was going to bear weight on Cooper in some kind of emotional way, rather than simply being a villainous clone. Coming to terms with shades and duplicity has always been one of Twin Peaks' core fascinations (not to mention the resolution to Laura's arc in the original run). Various characters, Jeffries included, have pointed toward the doppelgangers being connected to the true self as well.
but 18 hours. 18 hours man. this could have been what it promised. why did lynch do this?
What do you think it promised? Because it did not promise an action-packed chase and battle of wits between the two Coopers over 18 hours.
AnotherBlueRoseCase wrote:The Return is clearly guaranteed a future audience among stoners and other drug users.
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