Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Discussion of each of the 18 parts of Twin Peaks the Return

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claaa7
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Post by claaa7 »

mtwentz wrote: I think it has to be interpreted as a dream. Cooper's old room key should not fit into the boiler room below- this indicates no logic to the world he's in except a dream logic.

I believe trying to make sense and connect all the dots for this series will be very hard, but I'm open to the possibility that I am wrong and will be interested to see what people come up with.
not only that, but the boiler room at the Great Northern is suddenly the same as the basement of the Twin Peaks hospital as seen in the EU ending, all scored to the same sound effect.. it's exactly the type of thing that happens in dreams, one door leads you to a room in a different house, etc.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Post by sewhite2000 »

cgs027 wrote:
sewhite2000 wrote:
N. Needleman wrote:I think if there is a Season 4, whatever happened with Audrey is crucial. I believe there was material cut there.

As for Diane: I think once they crossed over the border, she became "Linda" - she was not protected from the reality shift as Dale was. He warned her things might be different, but he didn't know how much. Once they cross Diane is Linda but Dale is still Dale, not Richard, and to Linda/Diane she is making love to a strange, corrupted stranger. So she leaves. (I also think Cooper felt cocky and ascendent after destroying? BOB - before they cross, he makes advances on Diane, who seems willing but hesitant given the past. Cooper does not notice.)

And the Dale who crossed over is a strange corruption, a meld of our Coop with his doppelganger, corrupted by his new original sin, full of imperfect courage, more appetities and confusion - after violating the past to save a girl in trouble.

In the end Lynch and Frost made Dale Cooper into another of Lynch's latter-day antiheroes, plumbing his depths like Diane/Betty in MD or Fred/Pete in LH. His fatal flaws warp his world and damn him to the abyss.

If the show goes forward, IMO it will not be down to Hero Cooper to save reality. He is too in love with being the Special Agent. Like episode 29, he has never gotten over the spectre of Caroline, the original woman he could not save.
I like a lot of what you are saying here, but why did Dale and Diane have to "cross over" in the first place? Crossing over to what? Diane tries to talk Dale out of it, it seems. It seemed as if their new reality took a while to fully manifest. It is not until morning that Diane thinks of herself as Linda and Cooper as Richard. A different motel. A different car. A more populated area. What does it all mean?
I took it as he somehow knew the 430 clue would lead him to Laura ("Find Laura" -- he had figured out that she was in this alternate timeline). However, I have no idea why Diane was involved with this at all. Maybe just getting the team back together?
Also, how/why was Diane waiting for Cooper when he came out of the Red Room again? Was that prearranged? How did she know he would be there at that moment?
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Post by ArthurKing »

The way I see it, most of episode 18 is like an epilogue.
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N. Needleman
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Post by N. Needleman »

sewhite2000 wrote:Also, how/why was Diane waiting for Cooper when he came out of the Red Room again? Was that prearranged?
Yes. They discussed it, and he alludes to it when he says goodbye at the Great Northern: "See you at the curtain call."
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tresojos
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Post by tresojos »

so is audrey stuck in the lodge forever?
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Post by Troubbble »

Diane's appearance alone at Glastonbury Grove is incredibly interesting to me, too.

Edit: Had forgotten about Cooper's "curtain call" line. But the exclusion of Cole past that point--not to mention everyone else--still seems so strange.
Last edited by Troubbble on Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

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tresojos wrote:so is audrey stuck in the lodge forever?
Audrey's stuck somewhere that isn't the reality she thought she knew, and so is Cooper.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Post by cgs027 »

sewhite2000 wrote:
Cipher wrote:
sewhite2000 wrote:I like a lot of what you are saying here, but why did Dale and Diane have to "cross over" in the first place? Crossing over to what? Diane tries to talk Dale out of it, it seems. It seemed as if their new reality took a while to fully manifest. It is not until morning that Diane thinks of herself as Linda and Cooper as Richard. A different motel. A different car. A more populated area. What does it all mean?
Crossing over to the alternate world where Cooper senses/understands Laura has been sent, as a result of his actions or otherwise, I assumed.

Diane asking if he was sure meant, "Do you want to stay in this world where we understand everything (at the expense of going after Laura)?"
I'm finally caught up reading all 25 pages. I don't know if I'm ready for this to be Summary of Everything I Feel About the Season post. I do like your explanation that Cooper sensed Laura had been sent to another world. I didn't catch that while watching. I didn't really understand why Cooper wanted to travel to another reality.

Okay, I'm not expecting that I'll every truly understand this, but I think tonight I will just ask a few more questions rather than make my great summation of how I felt about the whole thing:

1) Of course, the lack of seeing any familiar Twin Peaks characters in the final return to TP (we got more than one!) leaves us at a loss to know what else might be different other than the Palmer house ownership and the Double R sign. But if Dale knowingly crossed into another reality or plane of existence, should he really be surprised that things might be different, like Tremonds living in the Palmer house? I mean, this is already a reality where Laura is a a waitress in Odessa, Texas. He seems really thrown for a loop that Sarah Palmer didn't open the door. For that matter, why would be hung up on what year it was, when just the fact of being in an alternate plane of existence could explain realities being different?

Okay, well, maybe that's my only question for right now. My brain is pretty fried.
Totally agree with this... He already knows that sh*t is totally out of whack (Diane's letter, Laura as a waitress who has no recollection of her other life), I have NO idea why he would assume Sarah Palmer would still be hanging around in her house in TP. Thought this was a little wonky -- if he knew enough to find Laura via a diner in Odessa in some parallel universe, wouldn't he have thought to figure out where Sarah may be?
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Post by TheGum »

silvo wrote:
TheGum wrote:The tag line was "it is happening again" and that is very clear here.

There are several ways you can interpret the series as a whole as well as the ending. Here's one that I'm really leaning towards-

Given the numerous references to Buddhist/Tibetan beliefs in the first 2 seasons, I think that absolutely factors in here, either literally or figuratively. Buddhism is essentially all about learning to transcend or become at peace with your pain and suffering (garmonbozia) and realize that life IS suffering. If you can't enlighten yourself and accept your suffering, you experience desires, which causes more suffering, and you repeat the cycle until you can accept your inevitable suffering and reach nirvana which is a state of complete acceptance of and as a result a liberation from suffering.
I believe that despite Cooper's fascination with Buddhism, he was very far from enlightenment. His obsession with attachments- to the town of twin peaks, to Caroline, to Annie, to the FBI, Audrey, and yes, to Laura, particularly this concept of "fixing her death." are all examples of this. Attachments are another cause of suffering- when you love someone, eventually they will cause you suffering, whether they hurt you in some way, or simply by dying, which will hurt you as well. Hell-- he was fascinated with the "plight of the Tibetan people" and wanted to help fix that somehow, a classic example of a massive problem that one person such as Cooper can't possibly fix and a cause of suffering for him. (Not to mention that he has no idea if the Buddhist residents of Tibet want or need help, this could just be a part of their natural suffering in their eyes) All of these attachments led to what we could call his repeated undoing. The owl cave sign turning into an infinity loop is a warning. Jeffries is showing him the path he will go on if he continues this road. I believe that Judy IS suffering, and that she was inside Sarah Palmer- who as a character is the embodiment of suffering. That's the blackness inside of her. I also believe that Laura, in fact actually reached enlightenment, hence the white light inside of her, but that enlightenment can't exist in Cooper's reality because he is not ready or capable of understanding it yet.

Proof of this is in the Four Noble Truths of Buddhism:
1. The existence of suffering.
2. The causes of suffering.
3. The cessation of the causes of suffering
4. The path that leads to the cessation of the causes of suffering

We are introduced to the universal suffering we will all eventually endure, death, immediately in the first couple minutes of the pilot. Laura has endured that suffering and as the show progresses we find that she has endured much more than just that.
As the show moves on we learn about BOB and eventually her father and his role. We see this first hand in FWWM. We see her personal struggles with desire and suffering throughout the original series. Additionally in FWWM we are shown more of her inner turmoil in the first person. Ultimately as the plot moves forward we are introduced to the ring, and another possibility for Laura. A future where she doesn't submit to BOB and a future where she is free not only from the pain he and Leland inflicts on her, but from all of the suffering in her life. She sees in the ring that it is possible to end her suffering. In the conclusion of FWWM she takes the ring, and leaves behind all of her pain, suffering, and attachments on earth to a higher level of enlightenment. We see her rise at the end of the film to this next level of being. And she shows it directly to Cooper at the beginning of The Return.

Unfortunately, Cooper is still at odds with his own suffering and has an intense desire to fix the suffering in the world. When she shows him the light behind her face, she is spirited away from his reality because he cannot accept her peace. He still is obsessed with the idea of "making things right" and helping her whether she wants it of not. His first failure is at the end of season 2 with Caroline, Annie, and Earle. He fails again in FWWM when he tries to persuade Laura not to take the ring. He follows the advice of Leland (who, clearly is not a great person to listen to) in The Return, with the entire season essentially being a long journey back to Twin Peaks, where he fixes the immediate problems, but then quickly returns to the lodge to retcon Laura's death. Jeffries WARNS him he is on an infinite path and he disregards him. He saves Laura, but Judy, or suffering in general wins out, because saving her does nothing to rid the world of suffering, so this reality ends and he finds himself back in the lodge. Here he has another opportunity to behave differently, even after seeing Leland and hearing his request yet again when he exits the Lodge to the waiting Diane. But even with endless possibilities in front of himself, he takes her 430 miles away, and tries again to fix things. This time ending up even further away from his original reality, those he knew, himself as a person- his behavior is not original Cooper, it is clearly some distillation of Cooper, Mr. C, and Dougie. He is good, but emotionless, impatient, and somewhat confused as to what exactly to do. He takes Carrie/Laura back to the place of her suffering and once again suffering wins. Because it ALWAYS will, because life is suffering.

We have been introduced first hand to the beginning of Agent Coopers journey though life and whatever there is after. And this will continue on and on until he accepts the reality of his own suffering and reaches nirvana. Whether this all "actually happened" or was a dream doesn't matter in a literal sense. In some way it all definitely happened. What is real? What is a dream? It's inconsequential as long as Cooper keeps missing the point. So should there be a season 4? There could be, but is it really necessary?
If this is the case, which would make a great sense, there are two things I don't undestand!
What it means Laura is the One!
What it means the golden orb Laura.

Till now these things they have been translated that Laura was sent from the White Lodge to stop evil. So, I can't find the connection of Laura reaching the nirvana with the golden orb. It seems more that Laura returns back to the White Lodge. Like a female Jesus took all the pain and suffering from the Twin Peaks world and sacrifices herself.
I think that is one of the beautiful things about this interpretation. We see the birth of an extreme example of suffering in part 8, BOB. I believe that Laura is sent to earth, as a response to that, not as some ultimate weapon to combat evil, but as an example. She becomes an example of accepting the suffering in the world instead of fighting it, because it will always win. We should look to her, as she becomes the embodiment of nirvana. Laura is the one.

In fact this "pain/suffering/acceptance" interpretation actually dovetails quite nicely with one of my other favorite interpretations, the "you can't go home" meta interpretation which suggests the point of season 3 was to show you that season three shouldn't have happened in the first place. 17 had this perfectly posed solution for all these plot points. Gordon Cole's cavalier exposition of all of these big mysteries of the series in one way gives us what we want. We WANT to know the answers to the mythology, we WANT to know who Judy is, and we get it. And because you can't go home, due to our expectations of what Twin Peaks SHOULD be, Twin Peaks could never possibly be that one thing to all people. Just as Cooper should have left Laura dead, and he is now doomed to repeat the same grisly discovering of his and her suffering in one way or another, we maybe should have left TP alone if we didn't want to see explanations of things that didn't meet our expectations. But the beauty of all of this is that rather than give us a concrete, matter of fact ending, which would have resulted in suffering for all of us- some of us would have hated it, or we might be sad and hurting for the final fate of characters we care about, Frost & Lynch in fact, have given us a massive gift! We can look at this over an over, change our interpretations, argue about it for years to come precisely because it isn't spelled out for us. 17 is them giving us and therefore showing us exactly why we wouldn't appreciate a concrete ending for our characters, 18 is gifting us an ending worthy of the series and worthy of our emotional investment as fans.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

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I have never felt so satisfied at the end of a series as I do right now.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Post by Ashok »

The biggest thing I'm struggling to grasp with Part 18 is Cooper's motivations regarding the Richard/Linda story. There seems to be a consensus that we are seeing Cooper repeating his past mistakes as a failed hero, but it seems to me he has just been meticulously following the clues of the Fireman. Just like he sought out the clues of the smiling bag, the chemicals that point, and the owls being not what they seem, 25 years later he's now following the clues of 430. Only this time his quest has taken him deeper into the heart of darkness that he and the Fireman are still intent on stopping?

If I'm understanding Part 18 correctly, "everything that happened happened". And everything occurring in the alternate reality also needs to happen for Cooper and The Fireman to eventually put everything in its right place. I don't believe Cooper is truly lost, he's just hasn't arrived at his destination yet which in an intriguing way now seems to revolve around Laura Palmer again. We HAVE to get a Season 4!
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Post by Cipher »

TheGum wrote:I have never felt so satisfied at the end of a series as I do right now.
Only Mad Men's supersedes it for me.

In the past twelve hours, I have gone from having significant reservations to loving it as an ending for the whole of Peaks. Can't stop thinking about it, and like it more and more.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Post by Panapaok »

As frustrating and kinda devastating the finale was (I'm actually shocked, I always thought that they'd go for a BV/FWWM finale), it's nearly impossible for me not to connect with Cooper's strive for good. His strive to help Laura even beyond her death. Even if he shouldn't because no matter how hard you try to change the future, you can't change the past. You can't erase it. You must allow the fractured reality that follows, even if it's painful. You must go through life, learning to live with the pain that it sometimes so haphazardly gives you.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Post by KyleRickards »

N. Needleman wrote:
KyleRickards wrote:"It is in our house now" - what is/was?
IMO, either Judy or the Bad Dale. The Fireman was warning Cooper about their coming evil. The White Lodge ensnared the doppelganger and BOB when they arrived, and Cooper sent the doppelganger back to the Black Lodge for destruction. Judy is another story.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Post by KyleRickards »

twin-b wrote:
KyleRickards wrote:Also, when the clock in the sheriffs office kept glitching, was it on 2:53 (time and again?)
Even this was messed up. The hour hand was slightky past the 3 somehow, making me question if it was even 2:53.
Thank you, do we think that's wha it was supposed to be indicating?


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