Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

[Trudy Chelgren]

sewhite2000 wrote:

Okay, I promise I'm not trying to get snarky. I'm just trying to understand. There are a ton of posts incredibly similar to yours. One sentence, two sentence, expressing utter happiness and satisfaction with the ending, but none of them elaborating why. Could you or others give some reasons why you're so deliriously happy, please? Maybe it will help me understand what I seem to be missing.

I loved the ending, but it didn't make me happy. I think it's a beautiful, excoriating marriage of the inter-dimensional exploration with the hard, sharp pain of inevitable truth. It's not remotely happy. It's poignant. I'm just happy that that's what Lynch and Frost chose to make their uncompromising, brave final point about. The deep-set sadness in the way the story can't be changed. No contrived tying points together, just cutting straight down to the root of this whole thing in an organic, dreamlike way.

[nonemoreblack]

That's definitely one of the bigger mysteries, right?

Who's the only person who actually tells Cooper to find Laura? Leland, the only other person we've seen host Bob. And he only does it after she's whisked away, presumably, because of Cooper's own actions.

Could it just be that their two motivations come together into one unfortunate loop? Leland's guilt and greed--a need to see his daughter returned, and Cooper's desire to kill two birds with one stone by saving Laura and stopping Judy. Both are short-sighted; both have only part of a picture and somewhat naive goals. Cooper's actions trigger Leland's plea; Leland's plea spurs on Cooper's sense of righteousness without due examination.

As far as the ending being depressing, it's horrifying in the moment, but I'm coming around to the idea that Laura's awakening and the seeming shattering of that reality may in fact promise something more redemptive to come.

Though, agreed with posts above; Cooper won't be the one to lead them out of it. Laura's the one -- our gateway into the mystery, and the only one with the hard-fought self-perspective to solve her way out of her own fate.

Your observation that Leland's command to find Laura actually happened after the fact in this episode is intriguing, but then again, Leland had exactly the same line of dialogue the first time Cooper escaped the lodge. And within the lodge time does obviously not run in a linear fashion. So, yeah, probably some kind of reciprocal (and entirely non-temporal) causation between Cooper and Leland (and their individual desires) going on. Why does the Fireman suddenly leave Cooper entirely?

And you are certainly right on the point that Leland is as imperfect a being as is Cooper, and thus does not see the whole picture. Though that does open up another "loophole": Other lodge spirits should have been able to forsee the consequences of Cooper going after Laura (either by going back to FWWM or by crossing over to a strange (dream?) dimension with Diane). Especially Mike, who guided him throughout the whole Dougie-Plot, but later didn't deem it necessary to warn him of persuing Laura. And where again did Cooper get those "430 miles" from!?

Does that mean, that the (perceived) forces of good wanted the ending to happen the way it did? And if so, why?

Damn, Lynch is crazy. But the good kind of crazy.

Yeah, that kind of bugged me, too. Even the Fireman seems to guide Cooper into this alternate timeline where both him and Laura are shadows of themselves, and are confused and ineffectual. Doesn't seem like the act of a benevolent character. Unless the entire end game was to keep Laura away from Judy (who may or may not have possessed Sarah). Almost like Briggs "hibernating", we have Laura hiding out in this skewed timeline (though she is not aware of it in this case).

That's why I have trouble completely blaming Cooper. It seemed like he was following what the Lodge spirits wanted him to do, so it wasn't only a case of him taking a giant risk because of his obsession with Laura.

[silvo]

I think that is one of the beautiful things about this interpretation. We see the birth of an extreme example of suffering in part 8, BOB. I believe that Laura is sent to earth, as a response to that, not as some ultimate weapon to combat evil, but as an example. She becomes an example of accepting the suffering in the world instead of fighting it, because it will always win. We should look to her, as she becomes the embodiment of nirvana. Laura is the one.

In fact this "pain/suffering/acceptance" interpretation actually dovetails quite nicely with one of my other favorite interpretations, the "you can't go home" meta interpretation which suggests the point of season 3 was to show you that season three shouldn't have happened in the first place. 17 had this perfectly posed solution for all these plot points. Gordon Cole's cavalier exposition of all of these big mysteries of the series in one way gives us what we want. We WANT to know the answers to the mythology, we WANT to know who Judy is, and we get it. And because you can't go home, due to our expectations of what Twin Peaks SHOULD be, Twin Peaks could never possibly be that one thing to all people. Just as Cooper should have left Laura dead, and he is now doomed to repeat the same grisly discovering of his and her suffering in one way or another, we maybe should have left TP alone if we didn't want to see explanations of things that didn't meet our expectations. But the beauty of all of this is that rather than give us a concrete, matter of fact ending, which would have resulted in suffering for all of us- some of us would have hated it, or we might be sad and hurting for the final fate of characters we care about, Frost & Lynch in fact, have given us a massive gift! We can look at this over an over, change our interpretations, argue about it for years to come precisely because it isn't spelled out for us. 17 is them giving us and therefore showing us exactly why we wouldn't appreciate a concrete ending for our characters, 18 is gifting us an ending worthy of the series and worthy of our emotional investment as fans.

Maybe the best explanation till now! Or better to say interpretation. So Laura could be the example and we see characters that may have changed because of Laura suffering and due to their own suffering like Ben, Nadine, Norma, and others that continue to suffer like Jerry, Steven and the Mother of suffering Sarah. And the passion is the fire that walks with the Cooper, the passion to save everything. But, he the end he don't save himself! He had the choice to get back to a family and he didn't take this path. For me it seems that returned for another 25 years in the black lodge, although he could break the loop.

[Cipher]

For me, the possibility that Cooper may have heeded the Fireman's words correctly--that, after many more cycles of strangeness and suffering, he (now more complete, though less sure-footed) and Laura (probably with Laura guiding the way) may make something of this yet--is exactly what prevents the ending from being as entirely bleak as its tone implies.

It's a nightmare in the moment, but it yields hints of a dream. I think there's both horror and hope in there--again, a perfectly fitting conclusion.

[cgs027]

"It is in our house now" - what is/was?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

The White Lodge had an image of the Palmer house on one of the screens (where the Fireman waved it off). Maybe there is a portal of some sort there, and he was implying Judy was there.

[Pinky]

the 'are we being followed?' scene was great. When they turned off the road, I was waiting for the lights to reappear.

[dropkick23]

I know this is from Part 17 but that thread seems to be getting ignored just now. Apologies if it has been posted elsewhere but I'm in work and haven't had a chance to read all 30-odd pages.

Am I correct in thinking that Cole's 'revelation' at the start of the episode is responsible for a MASSIVE ret-conning of the original series? We are now to believe that Cooper was there as a Blue Rose task-force agent and was working with Cole and Major Briggs all along to gain access to the Lodge to find 'Judy' as well as saving Laura?

If so, I have real difficulties with that.

Lynch apologized to us about it in the scene. Cooper was probably being used by Gordon for blue rose purposes from the get go.

[referendum]

In fact this "pain/suffering/acceptance" interpretation actually dovetails quite nicely with one of my other favorite interpretations, the "you can't go home" meta interpretation which suggests the point of season 3 was to show you that season three shouldn't have happened in the first place. 17 had this perfectly posed solution for all these plot points. Gordon Cole's cavalier exposition of all of these big mysteries of the series in one way gives us what we want. We WANT to know the answers to the mythology, we WANT to know who Judy is, and we get it. And because you can't go home, due to our expectations of what Twin Peaks SHOULD be, Twin Peaks could never possibly be that one thing to all people. Just as Cooper should have left Laura dead, and he is now doomed to repeat the same grisly discovering of his and her suffering in one way or another, we maybe should have left TP alone if we didn't want to see explanations of things that didn't meet our expectations. But the beauty of all of this is that rather than give us a concrete, matter of fact ending, which would have resulted in suffering for all of us- some of us would have hated it, or we might be sad and hurting for the final fate of characters we care about, Frost & Lynch in fact, have given us a massive gift! We can look at this over an over, change our interpretations, argue about it for years to come precisely because it isn't spelled out for us. 17 is them giving us and therefore showing us exactly why we wouldn't appreciate a concrete ending for our characters, 18 is gifting us an ending worthy of the series and worthy of our emotional investment as fans.

i wrote this over on another thread, in reply to someone else ( counterpaul). i copy/paste it here because it is a sort of parrallel reaction or reading to yours above:

there are a couple of things to do with this which i have not really thought through in relation to this last hour and a half, but i kept noticing over and over again in this series: one is the idea of wish-fulfilment, introduced very early on with Mr Jackpots but something that the series made a point of coming back to again and again, and the other is, flicking between an objective viewpoint, and various different subjective viewpoints, without signalling the change - events are viewed through different character's eyes, but it is not always immediately obvious whose eyes we are looking through, or whose perception of events we are being shown, or whether we are supposed to take that character's viewpoint as a reliable or trustworthy witness, or as real or imaginary. You can't have a much plainer or more explicit demonstration of this than playing out ten minutes of the final showdown with Cooper's face ( viewpoint) superimposed over the action.

Maybe Coops ending with Diane and with Laura - is all a kind of, '' if only it had all turned out like this''...and Diane/Linda disappearing, and the final minute, the what year is this? and the scream, an admission that...it didn't... Cooper's momentarily bewildered because he realises: you can't go back, and as that starts to sink in, the series ends on a sudden shift in viewpoint from Coop's POV to Laura's...

....So yeah I agree with you that this is not a rewrite or a retcon or a contradiction. It comes back to this same thing that the original TP ( and lynch) often comes back to, how do people deal with mental pain? And - another Lynch favourite - How can different people believe in each other ( and how can you have a reliable narrative) when everyone sees/ experiences things differently and has their own version of the same story they tell to themselves in different ways? There isn't ' an explanation' - there are explanations. etc....

[silvo]

What else that has left me with a question, is the role of Andy in the fireman! How exactly Andy was used in this part? The only thing that I can understand is that in a way he notifies Lucy what was happening and make Lucy understand what is going on when real Coop call her. But, all the rest with the mythology of mother and twin peaks?

[Ashok]

For me, the possibility that Cooper may have heeded the Fireman's words correctly--that, after many more cycles of strangeness and suffering, he (now more complete, though less sure-footed) and Laura (probably with Laura guiding the way) may make something of this yet--is exactly what prevents the ending from being as entirely bleak as its tone implies.

I think this is my favorite explanation thus far. I don't view Part 18 as a bleak ending --- or really even an ending at all. My take is that Cooper's destiny was to first defeat Mr. C/BOB at the sheriff station with the help of the green glove kid. With that mission completed, Coop's now been tasked with a new quest that has been re-framed around the show's original mystery, Laura Palmer. Where that journey leads is hard to speculate on but I want to believe the Fireman will continue to guide Cooper closer to some sort of "nirvana". There's no way he would feed Coop these clues about 430 and Richard/Linda to just abandon him, right?

[bastia]

You know what kept me thinking in this night of ours?

In FWWM Judy's is in Seattle. In episode 18 it is in Odessa.

[Rex]

Bah. All I know is Lynch knew what we wanted and instead he bent us over the table.

I want a cigarette.

[dropkick23]

When Cooper and Diane prepare to 'cross over' past the 430 mark the situation seems befitting to Hastings and Ruth making the decision to enter the zone.

[sewhite2000]

What else that has left me with a question, is the role of Andy in the fireman! How exactly Andy was used in this part? The only thing that I can understand is that in a way he notifies Lucy what was happening and make Lucy understand what is going on when real Coop call her. But, all the rest with the mythology of mother and twin peaks?

After Andy emerged from the White Lodge all serene and all-knowing, it seemed like a big step backward for him to bring the would-be agent of Naido's death nearly right to her ... and then also stumble into nearly getting killed by Chad. It was like he was right back to being old Andy. He did have the vision again, but I don't know that it helped in any way.

We finally got the picnic basket shot which was in, I think, the very first teaser trailer, along with Dale driving a car at night. Since 90 per cent of that stuff in that trailer appeared in the first or second episode, I think it was cool they threw in a couple of shots that didn't appear until almost the very end.

I was cringing the whole time. I was sure Evil Coop was just going to shoot Andy dead right there in the parking lot. Almost everyone who has commented on it has expressed hatred for the Freddy/BOB fight scene, but I thought everything leading up to it was a wonderful exercise in tension, what with Frank talking to one Cooper on the phone while looking into the eyes of another, and Chad's attempted escape. And the drunk picking at his own open wound. All that was brilliant.

[sewhite2000]

Bah. All I know is Lynch knew what we wanted and instead he bent us over the table.

I want a cigarette.

Is my money on the dresser?