Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Discussion of each of the 18 parts of Twin Peaks the Return

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KyleRickards
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby KyleRickards » Mon Sep 04, 2017 12:00 pm

Another question, is there any chance that our Dale is actually the one that's gone to Vegas to be with Sonny Jim and the newly created version of Cooper is Richard now and who found Carrie?


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SamGGD
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby SamGGD » Mon Sep 04, 2017 12:07 pm

[quote="KyleRickards"]Another question, is there any chance that our Dale is actually the one that's gone to Vegas to be with Sonny Jim and the newly created version of Cooper is Richard now and who found Carrie?


Nah. He barely knew Jayney and Sonny Jim. We are more connected to them than we are to Diane, but Cooper is not. He loves Diane (apparently).
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tresojos
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby tresojos » Mon Sep 04, 2017 12:14 pm

im taking it as this. please help me. the return happened all inside "a dream". except the last part. but did s1 & 2 happen inside this very same dream too?
is there endless realities? is cooper stuck between all of them? where is even him and laura... i need answers
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Pinky
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Pinky » Mon Sep 04, 2017 12:14 pm

Hatorum wrote:Damn, just damn. My mind is blown by all of this. Cooper going back in time to save FWWM Laura, that was amazing.

With time being the major theme here (is it future or is it past etc) it strikes me as funny that we once again get a season ending with an avalanche of unanswered questions. It mirrors especially season 1 in my opinion. Lynch and Frost didn't know if they could make season 2 so they created all those loose ends in order to continue the series. It feels oddly similar to me. We're stuck in a loop where we're never left with a conclusion. We just can't get a conclusion with Twin Peaks. I'm way more puzzled than at the end of season 2.

:?: :?: :?: :?:


it feels like Infinite Jest in that we are given enough information to infer the ending, if this is actually the end of the show: Coop is in way over his head, and things may have just gone from bad to worse if something is about to come out of that house, but something awakes in 'Laura' at the end, and Cooper is still on the path given to him by the Fireman, as far as I can tell. Things are bleak, but there's hope.

If we read this as a continuation, then a s4 would maybe take place in this bleak new world, Richard and Carrie scuttling from refuge to refuge, RichardCoop not remembering what it was that Lodge Laura whispered to him that scared him and raised the stakes. Is Chet Desmond rattling around in one of these worlds, and would he be a safe place to find shelter in this world? Are there portals in this reality, and can Richard keep Carrie alive long enough to get to one? Will he get Diane back too?
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby dropkick23 » Mon Sep 04, 2017 12:15 pm

KyleRickards wrote:Another question, is there any chance that our Dale is actually the one that's gone to Vegas to be with Sonny Jim and the newly created version of Cooper is Richard now and who found Carrie?


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The Dale/Dougie who ended up in Vegas said 'home' in a dougie-like manner....But, the Cooper with Carrie at the end did a dougie-like movement right before asking what year it was. Maybe tulpas are connected and part of Coop is indeed living happily ever after(ish) in the vegas world.
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TheGum
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby TheGum » Mon Sep 04, 2017 12:18 pm

Also here's a thought re: all the time glitches/confusing small details such as RR patrons changing , eds reflection sticking, cell phone time stamp madness in ep 16 which, I'm sorry was CLEARLY deliberately shown, became increasingly numerous as the season progressed and as Dale continued on his path towards removing Laura's death, the essential reason these people were together in the first place. As Cooper completes his mission time stops and they are stuck in a single moment. Those glitches snowball through the entire season and get more and more noticeable and extreme. Since time doesn't exist in the lodges, the ending both happens before during and after the season. We see the normal timeline unravel as Coope gets closer to changing the course of history because time's hold on reality is becoming more slippery.

Again this can sit as a means to explain the literal happenings within he more abstract and spiritual analysis of what message the last hour and therefore the entire series is meant to convey.
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Nikki Grace
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Nikki Grace » Mon Sep 04, 2017 12:22 pm

Panapaok wrote:As frustrating and kinda devastating the finale was (I'm actually shocked, I always thought that they'd go for a BV/FWWM finale), it's nearly impossible for me not to connect with Cooper's strive for good. His strive to help Laura even beyond her death. Even if he shouldn't because no matter how hard you try to change the future, you can't change the past. You can't erase it. You must allow the fractured reality that follows, even if it's painful. You must go through life, learning to live with the pain that it sometimes so haphazardly gives you.


I agree. It is beautiful but devastating.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby FredMadison » Mon Sep 04, 2017 12:23 pm

Was not at all ready for the cumulative emotional impact of all the parts. I am a complete mess today. I feel utterly nostalgic. I didn’t want it to end no matter how messed up it was getting.

It’s like Cooper enters my reality. Our common reality. The dream stops and dies. And they drive to the “real” Twin Peaks and nothing is the same. They didn’t drive by the Twin Peaks sign, because there isn’t one there, the Double R didn’t look the same. Lights out. Closed for business. When it was always open before. Nothing looks familiar to Laura. Because it’s no longer the dream. The dream is no more. All we have left is the reality we’re all in.

It feels like my childhood or some similar precious part of my being died. This sounds overly dramatic, I know. But it’s how it feels today. It’s killing me inside. I want to just go back to Andy and Lucy goofiness. I want to see Pete’s face. Fishing. Life as it was. Innocent times. Beauty. No ugliness. The warmth. The wind. The woods.

But it can’t be reached. It is no more. It started unraveling a long time ago. And it finally just completely did. There is no more electricity left.

What David does so beautifully is execute on that magical promise of cinema. The sum of it all envelopes and occupies my brain. Nothing can be looked at in isolation. It’s the sum. And it’s an overwhelming sum of emotion. And you can’t reduce it to words. Words fail. And you’re just left feeling. It’s like some of those pitches Jocelyn sings in “And Still”. Fragility, pain, beauty.

I can’t, honestly, remember the last time I felt this way after watching anything. Have I ever felt this way? Some Terrence Malick stuff has approached this. Some Kubrick things have approached this. But this has left me completely speechless in any meaningful sense of that word.

I’m an emotional wreck today. It’s like David’s own adventure from childhood to innocence completely lost. And somehow it gets tangled up with my own life experiences and those unfolding on screen.

We have had super hot days here in Los Angeles. Fires burning. Hot. I live less than two miles from David. Same hill. Same mountain. Yesterday, watching episode 18, exactly at 430 miles, a thunderstorm came out of nowhere. Climbed up the hill and went over it. Dark clouds. Tons of rain. My DirecTV signal went out at 430 miles. And the signal came back with Cooper (as now Richard) reading the letter from Linda. I couldn’t believe it.

Today, I feel like walking that two miles. Going to David’s house. And asking him for a big hug. I think I need one.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby frompureair » Mon Sep 04, 2017 12:35 pm

FredMadison wrote:Was not at all ready for the cumulative emotional impact of all the parts. I am a complete mess today. I feel utterly nostalgic. I didn’t want it to end no matter how messed up it was getting.

It’s like Cooper enters my reality. Our common reality. The dream stops and dies. And they drive to the “real” Twin Peaks and nothing is the same. They didn’t drive by the Twin Peaks sign, because there isn’t one there, the Double R didn’t look the same. Lights out. Closed for business. When it was always open before. Nothing looks familiar to Laura. Because it’s no longer the dream. The dream is no more. All we have left is the reality we’re all in.

It feels like my childhood or some similar precious part of my being died. This sounds overly dramatic, I know. But it’s how it feels today. It’s killing me inside. I want to just go back to Andy and Lucy goofiness. I want to see Pete’s face. Fishing. Life as it was. Innocent times. Beauty. No ugliness. The warmth. The wind. The woods.

But it can’t be reached. It is no more. It started unraveling a long time ago. And it finally just completely did. There is no more electricity left.

What David does so beautifully is execute on that magical promise of cinema. The sum of it all envelopes and occupies my brain. Nothing can be looked at in isolation. It’s the sum. And it’s an overwhelming sum of emotion. And you can’t reduce it to words. Words fail. And you’re just left feeling. It’s like some of those pitches Jocelyn sings in “And Still”. Fragility, pain, beauty.

I can’t, honestly, remember the last time I felt this way after watching anything. Have I ever felt this way? Some Terrence Malick stuff has approached this. Some Kubrick things have approached this. But this has left me completely speechless in any meaningful sense of that word.

I’m an emotional wreck today. It’s like David’s own adventure from childhood to innocence completely lost. And somehow it gets tangled up with my own life experiences and those unfolding on screen.

We have had super hot days here in Los Angeles. Fires burning. Hot. I live less than two miles from David. Same hill. Same mountain. Yesterday, watching episode 18, exactly at 430 miles, a thunderstorm came out of nowhere. Climbed up the hill and went over it. Dark clouds. Tons of rain. My DirecTV signal went out at 430 miles. And the signal came back with Cooper (as now Richard) reading the letter from Linda. I couldn’t believe it.

Today, I feel like walking that two miles. Going to David’s house. And asking him for a big hug. I think I need one.



Please document this if you do. Lol. I had to watch again just to get over the initial shock. I'm angry, happy so many emotions. I actually felt drained at the end trying to cope/process what I had just experienced. It was art at its finest wether we like it or not. Gonna take a lot of discussing but I love that it was left open to a bigger mystery but I do hope this isn't the final ending.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby thedougpa » Mon Sep 04, 2017 12:37 pm

FredMadison wrote:Today, I feel like walking that two miles. Going to David’s house. And asking him for a big hug. I think I need one.

You've gone soft in your old age, Fred.
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bob_wooler
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby bob_wooler » Mon Sep 04, 2017 12:46 pm

TheGum wrote:The tag line was "it is happening again" and that is very clear here.

There are several ways you can interpret the series as a whole as well as the ending. Here's one that I'm really leaning towards-

Given the numerous references to Buddhist/Tibetan beliefs in the first 2 seasons, I think that absolutely factors in here, either literally or figuratively. Buddhism is essentially all about learning to transcend or become at peace with your pain and suffering (garmonbozia) and realize that life IS suffering. If you can't enlighten yourself and accept your suffering, you experience desires, which causes more suffering, and you repeat the cycle until you can accept your inevitable suffering and reach nirvana which is a state of complete acceptance of and as a result a liberation from suffering.
I believe that despite Cooper's fascination with Buddhism, he was very far from enlightenment. His obsession with attachments- to the town of twin peaks, to Caroline, to Annie, to the FBI, Audrey, and yes, to Laura, particularly this concept of "fixing her death." are all examples of this. Attachments are another cause of suffering- when you love someone, eventually they will cause you suffering, whether they hurt you in some way, or simply by dying, which will hurt you as well. Hell-- he was fascinated with the "plight of the Tibetan people" and wanted to help fix that somehow, a classic example of a massive problem that one person such as Cooper can't possibly fix and a cause of suffering for him. (Not to mention that he has no idea if the Buddhist residents of Tibet want or need help, this could just be a part of their natural suffering in their eyes) All of these attachments led to what we could call his repeated undoing. The owl cave sign turning into an infinity loop is a warning. Jeffries is showing him the path he will go on if he continues this road. I believe that Judy IS suffering, and that she was inside Sarah Palmer- who as a character is the embodiment of suffering. That's the blackness inside of her. I also believe that Laura, in fact actually reached enlightenment, hence the white light inside of her, but that enlightenment can't exist in Cooper's reality because he is not ready or capable of understanding it yet.

Proof of this is in the Four Noble Truths of Buddhism:
1. The existence of suffering.
2. The causes of suffering.
3. The cessation of the causes of suffering
4. The path that leads to the cessation of the causes of suffering

We are introduced to the universal suffering we will all eventually endure, death, immediately in the first couple minutes of the pilot. Laura has endured that suffering and as the show progresses we find that she has endured much more than just that.
As the show moves on we learn about BOB and eventually her father and his role. We see this first hand in FWWM. We see her personal struggles with desire and suffering throughout the original series. Additionally in FWWM we are shown more of her inner turmoil in the first person. Ultimately as the plot moves forward we are introduced to the ring, and another possibility for Laura. A future where she doesn't submit to BOB and a future where she is free not only from the pain he and Leland inflicts on her, but from all of the suffering in her life. She sees in the ring that it is possible to end her suffering. In the conclusion of FWWM she takes the ring, and leaves behind all of her pain, suffering, and attachments on earth to a higher level of enlightenment. We see her rise at the end of the film to this next level of being. And she shows it directly to Cooper at the beginning of The Return.

Unfortunately, Cooper is still at odds with his own suffering and has an intense desire to fix the suffering in the world. When she shows him the light behind her face, she is spirited away from his reality because he cannot accept her peace. He still is obsessed with the idea of "making things right" and helping her whether she wants it of not. His first failure is at the end of season 2 with Caroline, Annie, and Earle. He fails again in FWWM when he tries to persuade Laura not to take the ring. He follows the advice of Leland (who, clearly is not a great person to listen to) in The Return, with the entire season essentially being a long journey back to Twin Peaks, where he fixes the immediate problems, but then quickly returns to the lodge to retcon Laura's death. Jeffries WARNS him he is on an infinite path and he disregards him. He saves Laura, but Judy, or suffering in general wins out, because saving her does nothing to rid the world of suffering, so this reality ends and he finds himself back in the lodge. Here he has another opportunity to behave differently, even after seeing Leland and hearing his request yet again when he exits the Lodge to the waiting Diane. But even with endless possibilities in front of himself, he takes her 430 miles away, and tries again to fix things. This time ending up even further away from his original reality, those he knew, himself as a person- his behavior is not original Cooper, it is clearly some distillation of Cooper, Mr. C, and Dougie. He is good, but emotionless, impatient, and somewhat confused as to what exactly to do. He takes Carrie/Laura back to the place of her suffering and once again suffering wins. Because it ALWAYS will, because life is suffering.

We have been introduced first hand to the beginning of Agent Coopers journey though life and whatever there is after. And this will continue on and on until he accepts the reality of his own suffering and reaches nirvana. Whether this all "actually happened" or was a dream doesn't matter in a literal sense. In some way it all definitely happened. What is real? What is a dream? It's inconsequential as long as Cooper keeps missing the point. So should there be a season 4? There could be, but is it really necessary?


Thank you! I was on the path to this, but this theory (c/w your later elaborations) brought me the whole way and made the the Return for me. It just makes sense now. What a perfect ending this actually was.
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Novalis
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Novalis » Mon Sep 04, 2017 12:46 pm

I'm still at a loss at how to log my reactions and commentary on these final two parts. My only thoughts right now can probably be summed up by saying that they were 'mesmerising' and 'devastatingly beautiful' (or beautifully devastating). Other than that I'm pretty much lost for words -- something that has not happened to me via TV before, and only rarely by films.

I'll get back to these threads in a few days when it has all sunk in and I've had a rewatch or two.
As a matter of fact, 'Chalfont' was the name of the people that rented this space before. Two Chalfonts. Weird, huh?
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Tailsun » Mon Sep 04, 2017 12:47 pm

Working through the last two episodes again. The feeling of unease is even more pronounced the second time around. When Coop enters Judy's Diner, I swear you can hear the faint sound of reversed footsteps. The shot of him slowly turning his head to survey the room feels as if it's sped up or maybe played in reverse - watch for a slight twitch of his mouth that seems much more abrupt and unnatural than a normal expression.

And of course the unshakable feeling that we're staring at a stranger assembled from the pieces of discrete characters we thought we knew. After his confrontation with the cowboys, we get a quick reaction from the older couple seated in the back, an exchange I missed the first time I watched:

Image

Took the fuckin' words right out of my mouth.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby SpookyDollhouse » Mon Sep 04, 2017 12:57 pm

rocketsan22 wrote:The over the top Lynch love is a tad annoying...


Then stay away from the discussion if it's so annoying.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby TheGum » Mon Sep 04, 2017 12:58 pm

Why are the chairs upside down? What an awkward feeling that Judy's has!
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