Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:53 am

Nighthawk wrote:There is simply no information given to speculate much about Diane. All we see is that Cooper wakes up in the morning in a different motel with a different car parked outside. His name is also different. He has spent the night with someone named Linda, but there is never any indication that it was Diane and not another random woman from this alternate reality.


"Linda" is an anagram of "Dian-L." "Naido" (confirmed to be a Diane counterpart) is an anagram of "Dian-O." This fits with the "Janey-E" nomenclature, albeit missing a letter. Also worth noting that Candie, Sandie and Mandie are also Dianagrams, with the "e" present.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby DeepBlueSeed » Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:56 am

No sure if this has been mentioned yet (still only got to page 20 because a heavy work schedule), but in part 17 the FWWM Laura screams at what is revealed to have been Cooper. But that can only have happened in a timeline where he saves her. What would she have been screaming at otherwise, given that we don't see anything else around Cooper?
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby gavriloP » Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:58 am

My head is spinning in a vortex but one thing about the motel: the room remains the same even though the exterior changes. So Diane/Linda WAS in that room...
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby claaa7 » Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:03 am

it's heartbreaking to think that at one point the scene with Cooper and Laura at the end of FWWM actually happened only for Laura to be snatched away from that happy place again (as seen for the first time in episode 2 in TR). Laura reveals that the glowing bright white light that we saw reflected on her at the end of FWWM now fills her entire being when she takes of her physical face to reveal her spiritual essence to Cooper. note how the light reflected on Cooper from Laura's face exactly mirrors the light that bathed Laura in FWWM.

Laura had reached her highest spiritual plane, true understanding, love and acceptance.. but had she not gone through her ultimate suffering and experienced her physical death she would have never been able to do that. which is why she was yanked out of the Lodge at the very same time in ep. 2 and ep. 17 ("is it future or is it past?" - it's actually both at the same time). the answer to who snatched Laura from the lodge and why in episode 1/2 was the most important mystery in The Return and the answer to that question is grim as hell.

EDIT - interestingly, with this in mind, our past doesn't only dictate our futures, but in this case our future dictates our past
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Cipher » Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:07 am

Laura to Cooper in episode 19: "I told you to 'meanwhile,' motherfucker! Why couldn't you just chill?"

EDIT -- I literally can't get over how good Laura screaming the lights out at (a version of) the Palmer house is as a (pre-credits) ending.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby TheGum » Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:35 am

"Cooper, you may be fearless in this world, but there are other worlds..."

The more I think about things, the more grim I believe Laura's situation to be. Having experienced earthly suffering and the ultimate suffering of death, she was able to achieve enlightenment, which she showed to Dale. This was likely meant as a reassurance, or a way to show Dale to move forward now that he could leave the lodge. Finish your business in the world and move forward, I'm fine. Initially I felt that "when you see me again it won't be me" was meant to signify that a totem or tulpa would remain in her place until Dale could figure out how to let go of his own suffering, but the more I think about it, I believe that because of his meddling with time, Dale eliminated the possibility of Laura achieving enlightenment, at least for now, and it may be way more complicated to get her there. That line was actually in a dream, but now Dale is truly in that situation. Earle says anyone who enters the lodge can reorder the universe to his liking-- Cooper does exactly that at the end of 17, and that literally opens the door for greater evil influence. The Black lodge is never a tool that can be used for good. Laura being sucked out of the lodge and disappearing in the woods I believe happens at the same time. We see in the Palmer house that Judy cannot destroy Laura, I believe that attacking that photograph and it's continued regeneration is evidence of that, likely because Laura is a creation of the white lodge. But just because she cannot destroy her that doesn't mean that she cannot imprison or hide her somewhere. I believe that Dale unwittingly opened the door for Judy by eliminating Laura's earthly suffering and by taking the choice to accept that suffering away from her and instead trying to take her to the white lodge himself. As a result, they end up in some kind of purgatorial plane, and suffering wins again because he is still trying to outwit suffering rather than accept it.

Other observations-

I love the concept that just because he has BOB on his side, Mr. C has the same hubris and weaknesses when confronting the lodge and lodge rules. He is in over his head just as much as Cooper is.

The jumping man races down the stairs after Cooper enters the Dutchmans. Why? To warn Sarah? Judy?

Mr. C does not put soil from around Jack Rabbit's palace in his pocket. Perhaps this is why he arrives into the white lodge imprisoned and the fireman is able to redirect him from the Palmer house, where he ostensibly would have found Judy, to the Sherriff station, where the right people are prepared to easily dispatch him and BOB. His confusion and lack of understanding are rather apparent. This is a direct parallel to Cooper's experience in the Lodge in episode 29- he plows forward in spite of the fact that he has no idea what he is supposed to be doing there.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby I'm the Muffin » Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:35 am

COOPER

Do you believe in the soul?

HAWK

Several.

COOPER

More than one?

HAWK

Blackfeet legend. Waking souls that give life to the mind and body. A dream soul that wanders.

COOPER

Dream souls. Where do they wander?

HAWK

Faraway places. The Land of the Dead.

COOPER

Is that where Laura is?

HAWK

Laura’s in the ground, Agent Cooper. That’s the only thing I’m sure of.


COOPER

To Laura. Godspeed.

-------

This exchange has been in mind ever since I watched these last two episodes, and it connects with a feeling I've had since Gordon's Belucci dream--is the world of Twin Peaks a collective dream, a kind of collaborative dreamscape, in which our characters' dream souls wander?
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby vicksvapor77 » Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:36 am

SpookyDollhouse wrote:I don't get why ppl are jumping to conclusions and saying that as well. Everything that's happened so far has meant something, and been apart of the experience. ALL of it.


Do you mean this on a meta level as someone watching and experiencing it? On some level, it makes me regret going on the journey at all. I can accept a bleak ending for Cooper and Laura if most of what I watched wasn't just eradicated from existence. There's something very unoriginal and mean-spirited, and frankly stupid and uninteresting, about them potentially wiping the entire series out of existence as we know it. That will never sit well with me.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby BHell » Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:37 am

DeepBlueSeed wrote:No sure if this has been mentioned yet (still only got to page 20 because a heavy work schedule), but in part 17 the FWWM Laura screams at what is revealed to have been Cooper. But that can only have happened in a timeline where he saves her. What would she have been screaming at otherwise, given that we don't see anything else around Cooper?


Well, I'm not a fan of these "timeline"-theories. Classic time travel, creating different timelines that erase each other (Back to the Future style) or branch off into completely separate actualities is just something I do not consider very "lynchean".

Instead, we have been shown multiple occurances of different realities throughout the season - flickering in and out - most notably Big Ed's mirror image being out of synch. One might even include some of the famous "continuity errors" we experienced. All of that might have been multiple "timelines" actualizing simultaneously - which is precisely why I'm inclined not to speak of "timelines": They are simply not separate.

When Cooper goes back in time (or is it really "going back"? We know he enters the FWWM-Scene coming from the Logdes, where time does not run in an intuitive manner.) he does save Laura (at least until she disappears):
Laura does not meet up with Leo and Renault. Yet, from FWWM, we know that she does.
Laura is not killed by her father (Bob). Yet, we see her getting killed.
Pete goes fishing, and yet he does not.

In the same sense, Dale Cooper is in the forest, watching Laura and James, and "at the same time" he is not. Just like we witnessed Big Ed taking a sip of Coffee, when "actually" he didn't, Laura probably witnesses Dale being there, when he is not (but in some way ... he is).
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby TheGum » Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:39 am

Also- I always took Mr. C shouting WHO IS JUDY to mean that he had no idea who or more clearly WHAT Judy is. But maybe he's literally asking Jeffries to tell him "who" is Judy? Who is her host?
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Cipher » Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:41 am

vicksvapor77 wrote:Do you mean this on a meta level as someone watching and experiencing it? On some level, it makes me regret going on the journey at all. I can accept a bleak ending for Cooper and Laura if most of what I watched wasn't just eradicated from existence. There's something very unoriginal and mean-spirited, and frankly stupid and uninteresting, about them potentially wiping the entire series out of existence as we know it. That will never sit well with me.

I genuinely don't think the original series has been blinked out of existence -- there are more worlds than two.

It'd certainly be strange, at any rate, for Cooper to take the trouble of ensuring Janey-E gets another tulpa if he was also convinced he was about to undo the events that led to their meeting in the first place.

TheGum wrote:Also- I always took Mr. C shouting WHO IS JUDY to mean that he had no idea who or more clearly WHAT Judy is. But maybe he's literally asking Jeffries to tell him "who" is Judy? Who is her host?

Oh, possible! Though I prefer him to be as clueless as possible, to better represent shades of Coop; same follies, just with total privilege given to the appetites Cooper won't accept are present in himself. (At least until he's Richard.)
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby TheGum » Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:45 am

BHell wrote:
DeepBlueSeed wrote:No sure if this has been mentioned yet (still only got to page 20 because a heavy work schedule), but in part 17 the FWWM Laura screams at what is revealed to have been Cooper. But that can only have happened in a timeline where he saves her. What would she have been screaming at otherwise, given that we don't see anything else around Cooper?


Well, I'm not a fan of these "timeline"-theories. Classic time travel, creating different timelines that erase each other (Back to the Future style) or branch off into completely separate actualities is just something I do not consider very "lynchean".

Instead, we have been shown multiple occurances of different realities throughout the season - flickering in and out - most notably Big Ed's mirror image being out of synch. One might even include some of the famous "continuity errors" we experienced. All of that might have been multiple "timelines" actualizing simultaneously - which is precisely why I'm inclined not to speak of "timelines": They are simply not separate.

When Cooper goes back in time (or is it really "going back"? We know he enters the FWWM-Scene coming from the Logdes, where time does not run in an intuitive manner.) he does save Laura (at least until she disappears):
Laura does not meet up with Leo and Renault. Yet, from FWWM, we know that she does.
Laura is not killed by her father (Bob). Yet, we see her getting killed.
Pete goes fishing, and yet he does not.

In the same sense, Dale Cooper is in the forest, watching Laura and James, and "at the same time" he is not. Just like we witnessed Big Ed taking a sip of Coffee, when "actually" he didn't, Laura probably witnesses Dale being there, when he is not (but in some way ... he is).


I absolutely believe all of the time glitches, tiny plot inconsistencies, and time stamp changes are very intentional and meant to convey different simultaneous realities as time spins a bit more out of control due to Dale's meddling. I believe this is foreshadowed in TSHOTP. Continuity errors in a book? Possible. But to show up rather similarly both in the visuals and narrative of the companion show is clearly intended imho.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby vicksvapor77 » Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:49 am

TheGum wrote:I absolutely believe all of the time glitches, tiny plot inconsistencies, and time stamp changes are very intentional and meant to convey different simultaneous realities as time spins a bit more out of control due to Dale's meddling. I believe this is foreshadowed in TSHOTP. Continuity errors in a book? Possible. But to show up rather similarly both in the visuals and narrative of the companion show is clearly intended imho.


Well, the one that Mark addressed directly on Twitter was Norma's mom and Cooper preventing Laura's death in 1989 in one timeline sure as hell wouldn't change Norma's parents LOL.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby ThumbsUp » Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:53 am

Mr. Reindeer wrote:The deep fryer thing was weird. Why not unload the guns before throwing them in? Why does he stand directly next to the fryer after telling the cook it was dangerous?


Loved your entire post. As for the deep fryer, I actually thought that was Dougie-esque, and I thought Judy's was a stage to showcase all the sides of Coop's identity and character, the ones that had been presented to us all season.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby TheGum » Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:58 am

vicksvapor77 wrote:
TheGum wrote:I absolutely believe all of the time glitches, tiny plot inconsistencies, and time stamp changes are very intentional and meant to convey different simultaneous realities as time spins a bit more out of control due to Dale's meddling. I believe this is foreshadowed in TSHOTP. Continuity errors in a book? Possible. But to show up rather similarly both in the visuals and narrative of the companion show is clearly intended imho.


Well, the one that Mark addressed directly on Twitter was Norma's mom and Cooper preventing Laura's death in 1989 in one timeline sure as hell wouldn't change Norma's parents LOL.


Maybe I'm giving too much credit or being too optimistic, but I just feel that events in general are changing and spiraling out of control as a result of messing with the universes intent in the first place. "All will be revealed...in TIME" is how I read that quote.
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