Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Discussion of each of the 18 parts of Twin Peaks the Return

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wxray
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby wxray » Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:06 pm

TheGum wrote:
wxray wrote:
FredMadison wrote:Any significance to the cars? In episode 2 (I believe) Evil Coop puts his Mercedes in storage and gets a black Lincoln from Jack. Jack's face is crushed. The scenes that follow involve Darya and Evil Coop in the motel room. In episode 18, it's Good Coop (or Richard) driving, if not the same, an identical Lincoln? Or a Lincoln is simply just a default FBI Agent car, with no direct connection?

Mercedes: he was just hiding it.

Lincoln: default big bad govt. car.

What I find interesting is in 18 when Diane meets Coop in the woods, they go their 430 miles in a 1966 Ford Galaxie... or it might be a Lincoln. It is about a 1966 based on the tail lights. The hotel scene definitely occurred in the 60s. He then wakes up as Richard with a different hotel outside. Of course he knows the newer Lincoln (about 2010) is his, because that's the big bad govt. car.


Tv in room is from the 90s. Definitely not set in the 60s

Well, hell! You can see just an inch or so of the TV as they walk in. Definitely not a 60s TV. You see the whole set after he wakes up "today." So, yep, you are right.

It is just Lynch playing games. Probably visited Chip Foose down at "Overhaulin'" and got a bitchin' ride, just like the cars of the would be hit men in Fake Las Vegas.

So, yeah, scratch it. You are right. "What year is this anyway!"
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby PDCampbell » Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:19 pm

ThumbsUp wrote:
Hello wrote:In the window, someone claimed:

Evan M Haney says:
September 4, 2017 at 10:16 pm
I totally missed it at first, as did every critic who has written about the finale so far. A friend sent me enhanced images of the Palmer House from the final scene of the finale. There are three windows above the door. In the window to the viewers’ right, you can see the alien that appeared in the glass box experiment way back in episode one. If you just watch the scene without enhancing it, you can barely see some kind of shape in the darkness of that window. If you make a high def image of just that way and juke the contrast and brightness, you’ll see its face. Judy or joo-day, perhaps?


Use the shot at 55:30 – 55:35. It’s right before you hear Sarah shout Laura’s name. Creepy as hell. I’m not going to bed til my dog comes inside.


I've been messing with it, and there's definitely something there, but it could just be like a light reflecting or something. I dunno, I'm not a graphic artist... I read somewhere else about a "figure" in one of the windows, but I can't find anyone who's posted a convincing edit of the photo.


I found this in browsing the old spoiler thread partial archive. It's from someone who observed filming at the Palmer house. It suggests there might be something to this theory:

viewtopic.php?f=29&t=3817#p108996
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby DreadDub » Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:23 pm

Thanks for the great discussions everyone...really have enjoyed reading the various interpretations from everyone after each episode. Going to miss the weekly banter after each new episode aired although I feel we will all still be dissecting this show for years to come.

It has amazed me how much more each part has hit me upon a re-watch. When not trying to take everything in at once, little details come through. I have always enjoyed Lynch's various works for that reason. It seems I can find something new on each viewing. Such a unique experience.

After rewatching Part 18 today after a long day of work, I noticed a small detail in the sex scene in the motel that immediately jumped out to me.

As "Diane" is on top of "Dale" in the most uncomfortable sex scene of all time, she places her palm over his heart...a call back to when her tulpa told Cole at the jail that the Coop she had just talked to was missing something in his heart. Something is wrong. At that moment she realizes that her Dale is already changing/has changed forms again. She throws her head back in anguish. She then finishes the almost ritual sexual act by covering his face with her hands almost like the Woodsmen's black magic when reviving Dopplecoop. Put me on board that this sexual act was required to fully transition between 2 worlds.

Anyway, keep up the great work everyone.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby ThumbsUp » Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:26 pm

PDCampbell wrote:
ThumbsUp wrote:
Hello wrote:In the window, someone claimed:

Evan M Haney says:
September 4, 2017 at 10:16 pm
I totally missed it at first, as did every critic who has written about the finale so far. A friend sent me enhanced images of the Palmer House from the final scene of the finale. There are three windows above the door. In the window to the viewers’ right, you can see the alien that appeared in the glass box experiment way back in episode one. If you just watch the scene without enhancing it, you can barely see some kind of shape in the darkness of that window. If you make a high def image of just that way and juke the contrast and brightness, you’ll see its face. Judy or joo-day, perhaps?


Use the shot at 55:30 – 55:35. It’s right before you hear Sarah shout Laura’s name. Creepy as hell. I’m not going to bed til my dog comes inside.


I've been messing with it, and there's definitely something there, but it could just be like a light reflecting or something. I dunno, I'm not a graphic artist... I read somewhere else about a "figure" in one of the windows, but I can't find anyone who's posted a convincing edit of the photo.


I found this in browsing the old spoiler thread partial archive. It's from someone who observed filming at the Palmer house. It suggests there might be something to this theory:

viewtopic.php?f=29&t=3817#p108996


Whoa, freaky! And cool! It is suspicious that those tiny windows are the only ones dark while all the rest are lit up. Ugh, there's definitely something in that right-hand window. I'll fiddle with it and post it here.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby lotjx2 » Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:40 pm

The two youtube shows that I have followed with the series have not updated. I think they threw in the towel along with most of the fans. It sorta sucks, because a few of them are really quite knowledgeable about the show and some of the number sequences. I think we have to realize this ending was always going to divide fans for the most part. I am not exactly a fan of it. I get a large part of why we love Lynch is he is one of the last uncompromising artist out there. However, it did feel a bit indulgent at times especially the Vegas shit.
Last edited by lotjx2 on Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Firewalkwithme91 » Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:44 pm

The two gentlemen from Mild Fuzz had a great discussion about the final two episodes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWhDpsOv7GU&t=9445s
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby ThumbsUp » Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:06 pm

ThumbsUp wrote:
PDCampbell wrote:
ThumbsUp wrote:
I've been messing with it, and there's definitely something there, but it could just be like a light reflecting or something. I dunno, I'm not a graphic artist... I read somewhere else about a "figure" in one of the windows, but I can't find anyone who's posted a convincing edit of the photo.


I found this in browsing the old spoiler thread partial archive. It's from someone who observed filming at the Palmer house. It suggests there might be something to this theory:

viewtopic.php?f=29&t=3817#p108996


Whoa, freaky! And cool! It is suspicious that those tiny windows are the only ones dark while all the rest are lit up. Ugh, there's definitely something in that right-hand window. I'll fiddle with it and post it here.


Ugh, I don't know what I'm doing, I suck at Photoshop. Anyone else want to try? I'm kinda thinking nothing's there, but who knows. There's at least a shape there that's in none of the other dark windows.

Screen Shot 2017-09-05 at 9.59.51 PM.png
Screen Shot 2017-09-05 at 9.59.51 PM.png (473.61 KiB) Viewed 719 times
Screen Shot 2017-09-05 at 10.00.18 PM.png
Screen Shot 2017-09-05 at 10.00.18 PM.png (483.38 KiB) Viewed 719 times
Screen Shot 2017-09-05 at 10.00.51 PM.png
Screen Shot 2017-09-05 at 10.00.51 PM.png (484.61 KiB) Viewed 719 times
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby crash_and_burn » Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:10 pm

One man's "Savior Complex" is another man's Bodhisattva. Obviously, from a certain point of view, it could be either.

I don't think we can discount the idea that when Cooper came to Twin Peaks, many bad things unravelled, however that also seems to be the case with karma in general.

It has always struck me, that whenever Lynch has directed MacLachlan as Coop, that he had a bit of that dark side that would creep through. It seems especially apparent in the Pilot, the S2 Finale and in the FWWM deleted scenes.

I think the Dale we see in Odessa is the reunified Dale and there is something to be said about this concept that Mr. C AND Dale were merged back together. Perhaps the psychological sacrifice to have the Dougie tulpa created was giving up his mirth and "boy-scout-ness" to benefit Janey-E and Sonny Jim.

It has also crossed my mind, that Dale was almost successful, however Carrie's/Laura's final scream was identical to the one in which she finally faced the truth that Leland/BOB were one and the same. The scream that dissolves into breakfast in FWWM and then Laura tells Leland to stay away.

Why would this be? Why would Laura present herself as a page carried over?

Because the missing page, wasn't really missing and the tragedy is that Dale should have remembered what it said, because the second Mrs. TREMOND gave Donna the missing page, if you recall. Donna read it to Dale, this was the page that said Laura knew she wanted and needed to die.

So, perhaps that's what really happened, Laura's perspective was that the entire shift after Cooper opened the basement door, was Dale coming to "rescue her" yet in her dream on that last night, she denied Dale his rescue of her and woke up to the same breakfast and same last day before her death.

However from Dale's perspective, he is still in the Lodge, trapped in this cycle of trying to save Laura, find Laura, it is his Fire Walk and Laura is now trying to help him.

I think the clue to that concept is that she appears in Silencio, overseeing the awakening of Diane.

Whereas, also we see Camilla oversee the awakening of Nicki at the end of Inland Empire.

I also find the parallels between the White Lodge and Silencio striking as well as the appearance of a stark red haired Diane which is the diametric opposite of the blue haired lady at Silencio.

I think Dale is still in his Fire Walk from Laura's point of view, yet from his, she is still in need of help.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Mace » Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:43 pm

My Richard & Linda theory:

Richard and Linda live in Laredo, Texas and they are heading to their first Twin Peaks Fest. Richard is so obsessed with the show that he never stops talking about it. Linda, being a loving wife, has agreed to attend the Twin Peaks Fest if Richard agrees to dial back his Twin Peaks obsession. (To this day he still cannot believe that no one has ever told Linda how much she resembles Laura Dern.) They have dinner, finish packing their bags for the trip and get into bed and, as usual, Richard hands her the red Lil' wig. Linda goes along with it for a while but then she realizes she just can't do it any more. She covers his face with her hands, goes through the motions and finally decides that she has to leave Richard. Linda waits until Richard has fallen asleep and sneaks out in the middle of the night but not before she writes him a goodbye note. Richard knew this was coming and isn't surprised that Linda left. Suddenly he remembers the story his truck-driver friend told him about a waitress he saw a month ago in Odessa, Texas that looks almost exactly like Sheryl Lee. He needs to find out if this is true. It just turns out that Odessa is about 430 miles from Richard's home town of Laredo, Texas and it is on the way to North Bend, Wa. Richard arrives in Odessa later that same day and finds a struggling actress named Carrie Page and to his amazement she does look a lot like Sheryl Lee. Carrie, not being too bright, agrees to head to North Bend with Richard hoping that somehow this will lead to her "big break." Two days later they arrive in Washington State and since they are a day early he thinks he should show her the home that was used as Laura Palmer's house. They knock on the door and the owner "pretends" that no one named "Palmer" ever owned the home. Carrie thinking that this is an impromptu audition for a movie decides to let out one of her most blood-curdling screams. Richard is so impressed that he is confused as to the year because he hasn't heard a scream like that since Fire Walk With Me in 1992. Carrie giggles, slowly leans over to Richard and whispers in his ear, "Do you think I could win the costume contest?"
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Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby yaxomoxay » Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:55 pm

MacLachlan says that Richard is a different character than our Cooper: http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/twin-pe ... 202547022/


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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby crash_and_burn » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:19 pm

Okay!!! Is the opening scene of S3 / TP:TR, when Dale is talking to the Fireman, is that the dream he is trying to tell Cole about when Jefferies shows up in FWWM?
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Saturn's child » Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:18 pm

ThumbsUp wrote:
PDCampbell wrote:
ThumbsUp wrote:
I've been messing with it, and there's definitely something there, but it could just be like a light reflecting or something. I dunno, I'm not a graphic artist... I read somewhere else about a "figure" in one of the windows, but I can't find anyone who's posted a convincing edit of the photo.


I found this in browsing the old spoiler thread partial archive. It's from someone who observed filming at the Palmer house. It suggests there might be something to this theory:

viewtopic.php?f=29&t=3817#p108996


Whoa, freaky! And cool! It is suspicious that those tiny windows are the only ones dark while all the rest are lit up. Ugh, there's definitely something in that right-hand window. I'll fiddle with it and post it here.


Hold on, what's freaky & cool? That link wouldn't work for me... :(
& thank you for posting the contrasted pics ThumbsUp! *thumbs up*
We know Lynch has put in at least a couple of very subtle visual tidbits (aside from the controversial ones), so it wouldn't surprise me if he hid something in the final moments.

When Hello first posted the pic with the single word 'Judy', I thought they were implying the whole Palmer house itself was Judy, possibly even her womb, birthing pain & suffering..
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Saturn's child » Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:25 pm

Drgarage wrote:One interesting note: Chalfont as a name originates to an Olde English place name specifying the location of a well. And Tremond more or less literally means "Tree of Life." Are the Chalfonts Judy, i.e.: the source of all pain and suffering?


Interesting indeed, nice work! I can see how a font (ie: water basin) could be a well, which made me wonder about 'chal'. Totally random, but in Romany/'Gypsy' it means 'person' or 'fellow'.

As for Tremonde, could another etymology be the 'World Tree' (Yggdrasil) or 'Three Worlds'?
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Drgarage » Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:50 pm

[quote="Saturn's child"][quote="Drgarage"]One interesting note: Chalfont as a name originates to an Olde English place name specifying the location of a well. And Tremond more or less literally means "Tree of Life." Are the Chalfonts Judy, i.e.: the source of all pain and suffering?[/quote]

Interesting indeed, nice work! I can see how a font (ie: water basin) could be a well, which made me wonder about 'chal'. Totally random, but in Romany/'Gypsy' it means 'person' or 'fellow'.

As for Tremonde, could another etymology be the 'World Tree' (Yggdrasil) or 'Three Worlds'?[/quote]
Yes, I meant Tree of the World, not Life. Yggdrasil indeed. Three Worlds is really interesting.

Chal is weird. As per of nonchalant, for example, it apparently means heat, as in calorie. So, a tenuous connection to fire.

More interesting is the etymology back through challenge, the chal part of which is believed to come from calumny, which is all about trickery and deception. This (probably dubious) article even finds both a Latin and a Celtic root, both of which are all about trickery, confusion, and bewichment.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?ter ... in_frame=0

Still, Mrs. Chalfont always seems to mean well, doesn't she? As in, her name means well. And she offered what appeared to be help to both Laura and Donna, though lots of bad things follow. The picture and its wallpaper echoing in the Dutchman's is why I'm so stuck on this idea.

Richard and Carrie were looking Judy in the face and didn't know it.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby BHell » Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:16 pm

DeepBlueSeed wrote:I hadn't been a fan of the alternative timelines until this point but, after part 17, reflecting on the two times Laura disappears from 'existence', I find it easier to think of there being at least one version of events where Laura dies and then sees Cooper 25 years later, and also one when he intercepts her on the way to Leo and Renault. The jump to a shot of the body, wrapped in plastic, flickering out of existence, seems to suggest that it is over-written rather than being two co-existing time-lines (the 'continuity errors' I've been interpreting more as the weird dream nature of the Lodge on the town, as a symptom of Lynch liking to use surreal dream logic). That said, yes, I agree that time as we understand it doesn't really exist in the Lodges, nor does the proximity of the Lodges mean that the normal rules apply - she saw Annie after all, so why might she not see some weird backwards echo of Cooper.


Don't get me wrong: If it works for you (and others), that's great. I do not intent to discourage anyone from using this explanation. It's just that I, personally, tend to go for a more "direct" approach (as in: what we see is what we get). That's how i roll.
As long as an explanation helps anyone understand anything, it has at least some validity. And in what way we regard the different scenes in Part 18 - be it timelines, dreams, dimensions (Bill Hastings' Zones), something breaking the fourth wall, or everything "simply" happening - that should not make too much of a difference when we go on and discuss the content of the scenes themselves.

It's pretty much the same thing with scientific models: In most cases, it's sensible to use a heliocentric model of astronomy, with Earth revolving around the sun. That generally makes calculations easier. But it doesn't mean that there can't be an advantage to the more antiquated models that see the sun revolving around Earth. And if you take a "neutral" perspective, using any other point than sun or Earh as the center, both revolve around and move relative to one another. And no matter which model is used, all lead to the same results.

That being said: Even if we say that Cooper creates a branching timeline where Laura survives, I don't think we see much more of that timeline after Pete doesn't discover her body. The "dimension" Cooper and Diane visit does not seem to be a direct consequence of Laura surviving: Diane's doppelganger(?), Laura being Carrie and working at "Judy's", and last but not least, the Tremonds/Chalfonts occupying the Palmer House would not logically follow any natural development of Laura not being killed. All of that happening implies some more Lodge-influence (= Judy?!).

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