Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Discussion of each of the 18 parts of Twin Peaks the Return

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Saturn's child
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Saturn's child » Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:51 am

Novalis wrote:In the final few scenes of this part, there is a profile shot of Cooper/Richard where he starts to learn forward slowly, at quite a severe angle. Am I the only one who thought, momentarily, that he was going to do the low bow/float that Leland does in the red room from FWWM?

Really caught me off my guard. Was absolutely certain -- for the tiniest moment -- this is where it was headed. Then, no.


Ttly.
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Hercousin
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Hercousin » Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:27 am

Ragnell wrote:
powerleftist wrote:You people are thinking more about this show than Lynch himself in all his life. The person who cares less about how all of this makes sense or ties together is the man himself. The game is over.


No, the game is on. Forever. Lynch and Frost know this fandom. Back in the day they cliffhangered everything to see if they could force another season or in the giddy silliness of just seeing how much they could leave ubresolved but when they started writing this they'd seen it resulted in two decades of speculation, hunting for clues and discussion. A two year trend had become a 25 year phenomenon. How do you top THAT? With a single summer wrapping everything up, explaining everything, and letting the fandom discussions die down to trivialities, critiques and fix-it fanfics?

Hell baby gawddamned no!

You give everyone some answers that just raise more questions, points in the story that could be intentional and could be mistakes, leave some soapy plotlines unresolved and give us an ending that has us not only arguing over the reality of the show but also whether its a happy, tragic, or cliffhanger ending.

This way, you ensure we all get the same enjoyment we've had for the last 25 years of picking the series apart and debating it.

And that is why I was so happy at the end. Because its clear that's what they did and that is a GIFT to the core fandom of Twin Peaks, those of us who love a good mystery. The mystery continues forever. The Modern Goddess of Mystery, Laura Palmer, sits in her throne and presides over a discussion of whether she was wrapped in plastic or not, and if she should have been. This is amazing and wonderful and proves they were paying attention to us all along.


I really like this. Even if there's no season 4, you're right, the mystery is there. That final shot of Laura whispering is what does it. Still feel some sort of malaise but I'm coming out of it thanks to all the commentary on both sides.
thedarktrees
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby thedarktrees » Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:39 am

Ok, so having thought about things a bit more, I'm now getting on stuck on something that's hard to reconcile. A lot of the opinion/interpretation here seems to revolve around the idea that Coop went too far, tried to save Laura, and basically f#cked everything up, spawning some new reality where Laura's not Laura, Coop's not Coop, etc.

Which seems to be the case for the most part -- but then how does any of that fit with the actual starting point of Season 3? i.e., the Fireman's instructions to Coop about 430 an Richard and Linda? Isn't he essentially instructing Coop on what he's supposed to be doing? And if so, why does Cooper seem so puzzled about the Richard/Linda letter? Shouldn't he have known exactly what this was? Or at least recognized the reference? So DID Coop actually f#ck up? Is this somehow not what was supposed to happen? The whole things looks like Coop did bad -- and yet, seems he just followed the Giant's clues.
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TwinsPeak
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby TwinsPeak » Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:47 am

With the alternate reality theory. Do you think there is a chance that Laura and Coop/Carrie and Richard are in our reality? Using the real owners of the house makes me wonder....but if it was our reality I guess Laura's name would be Sheryl and Coop would be Kyle.

I've also heard most of the original show is a dream. Most of the Return is a dream. But Fire walk with me isnt a dream....anyone believe that?
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby ArthurKing » Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:47 am

Coop told Cole, if he'd ever disappear he had to do everything he could to find him. That's what TP fans and viewers are doing right now. So in the end Cooper found Laura, but we all are trying to find Cooper.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Hockey Mask » Thu Sep 07, 2017 11:37 am

M.T Wentz wrote:"Everyone has a shadow."


Except on cloudy days
...or at night. "
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Ross
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Ross » Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:07 pm

thedarktrees wrote:Ok, so having thought about things a bit more, I'm now getting on stuck on something that's hard to reconcile. A lot of the opinion/interpretation here seems to revolve around the idea that Coop went too far, tried to save Laura, and basically f#cked everything up, spawning some new reality where Laura's not Laura, Coop's not Coop, etc.

Which seems to be the case for the most part -- but then how does any of that fit with the actual starting point of Season 3? i.e., the Fireman's instructions to Coop about 430 an Richard and Linda? Isn't he essentially instructing Coop on what he's supposed to be doing? And if so, why does Cooper seem so puzzled about the Richard/Linda letter? Shouldn't he have known exactly what this was? Or at least recognized the reference? So DID Coop actually f#ck up? Is this somehow not what was supposed to happen? The whole things looks like Coop did bad -- and yet, seems he just followed the Giant's clues.

I wondered about this at first as well. And I wrote about it in my theory post. The Giant is the ultimate puppetmaster. Yes- Cooper and Carrie/Laura end up exactly where he wanted them. Even if its bad for Cooper & Laura. The Giant originally sends Laura as someone to eventually face and fight evil. Of course Laura ends up choosing her own path to her own salvation.

In the end Cooper and Laura end up where the he wants them, with Laura restored and a chance to fight the darkness. Even though this is far away from what was necessarily best for either Cooper or Laura.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Ross » Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:12 pm

vicksvapor77 wrote:On rewatch, I noticed some very interesting editing choices for the end of parts 17 and 18.

In Part 17, we see Cooper trying to change the past with Laura, then we see Sarah freaking out and trying to destroy her photo and then we see Laura disappear from Cooper's grasp and scream with Julee Cruise's song playing over the end credits.

Part 18 opens with the new Dougie tulpa being created and reuniting with Janey-E and Sonny Jim. We then have what I believe to be simple rollback (soaps do this to sort of "recap" the last scene of the previous episode when starting the next episode) to the moment from the end of 17 with Cooper losing Laura in the woods and then he goes into the Red Room.

Some have speculated that they think Cooper loses Laura twice but I think it's just simple rollback of footage (it's definitely not an alternate take). I think it's to show the multiple events happening at once in the timeline, like Sarah smashing the picture and Dougie's reunion with his family (which is daytime, so perhaps earlier that day?), happen BEFORE Cooper loses Laura in the woods.

Now, we don't conclusively see our normal timeline ever again after this moment, which is what makes me very afraid that our current timeline where Laura dies was erased. What do you guys think about this? For those that absolutely don't think the original timeline of her dying was erased, how do you reconcile the conscious editing choice to not show "our timeline" again after Cooper loses Laura in the woods? I would definitely agree that moment and the ensuing ones in the Red Room seem to indicate he failed in saving her from her original murder but then what? We don't see our timeline "revert to normal" again, with her body showing up back on the shore or showing her meeting Ronette, Leo and Jacques so it's definitely suspicious. Certainly if she just fails to exist in that timeline from that moment (she literally disappears from the woods) things in that timeline would be altered for everyone? Clearly her soul can be displaced elsewhere, as she was already in the Red Room after her death. Why not go to another timeline/dimension as Carrie? But that doesn't reconcile us never seeing "our timeline" again after that moment or that she literally disappears from Cooper's grasp, which is obviously different than the original timeline.

I definitely see it as the timeline was restored, and that Cooper came out of the Lodge back in the unaltered time. Diane is there waiting for him. This certainly seems like the same Diane we just left. I think its purposely vague though.
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madeleineferguson
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby madeleineferguson » Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:18 pm

I think the Diane we meet in Part 18 is another tulpa, or maybe even her doppelgänger. When she's sitting in the car waiting for Cooper to book the hotel, and she sees another Diane... I think that's the tell.

The One Armed Man uses hair to make a tulpa, but Diane wears wigs. No idea if it means anything, just an observation.
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Ross
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Ross » Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:49 pm

So honestly, was mtsi just pulling our leg about seeing someone on location??
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby madeleineferguson » Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:01 pm

Ross wrote:So honestly, was mtsi just pulling our leg about seeing someone on location??


I'm choosing to believe that there were things filmed which are being saved for Season 4.
KyleRickards
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby KyleRickards » Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:14 pm

Quick one, who does Carrie/Laura hear scream 'Laura!!' At the very end?


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zeronumber
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby zeronumber » Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:29 pm

.......M E A N W H I L E . . .

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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby mtwentz » Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:34 pm

Ross wrote:So honestly, was mtsi just pulling our leg about seeing someone on location??


Weren't we speculating it was Mary Jo Deschanel? If it were someone like her, it would have been just a cameo most likely and could easily have been cut.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby TheGum » Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:46 pm

I've just had this moment of clarity, and I haven't had time to catch up with this thread where I left off, but I will say this- I am genuinely worried about Cooper. I want him to be safe. But- anyone that thinks Lynch is having a laugh at us is nuts. Fix your hearts or die. If he didn't give a fuck about us he wouldn't have done the Return. Think about his decisions with respect because he respects you. If he didn't he wouldn't have bothered.
Last edited by TheGum on Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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