Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Discussion of each of the 18 parts of Twin Peaks the Return

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Deep Thought
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Deep Thought » Sat Sep 09, 2017 10:51 am

wxray wrote:
MysteryMan14 wrote:Things continue. Forever. They can cook up a Season 4 if you really want it. I don't really care.


I don't remember this board having folks dropping by to poop on Twin Peaks before season 3. Seemed it was more for fans back then. I have faith the disappointeds will be drifting away soon. Or at least hanging out in the season 2 forum. Let's hope.
"E.g." means "for example". What I think you want to say is "i.e.".
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Manwith » Sat Sep 09, 2017 10:58 am

Deep Thought wrote:In a show already proven to have synced scenes in play,


For some strange definition of "proven".
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Manwith » Sat Sep 09, 2017 10:59 am

Deep Thought wrote:In a show already proven to have synced scenes in play,


Perhaps we have different definitions of "proven".
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Deep Thought » Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:04 am

Manwith wrote:
Deep Thought wrote:In a show already proven to have synced scenes in play,


For some strange definition of "proven".


Tell me how your definition of proven would not categorize the first 2 minutes of these scenes as synced?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-BDU-TvlTg
"E.g." means "for example". What I think you want to say is "i.e.".
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Manwith » Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:32 am

Deep Thought wrote:
Manwith wrote:
Deep Thought wrote:In a show already proven to have synced scenes in play,


For some strange definition of "proven".


Tell me how your definition of proven would not categorize the first 2 minutes of these scenes as synced?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-BDU-TvlTg


Huh? I watched or 45 seconds and the images don't seem to even have anything to do with each other? People looking for patterns can find them whether or not there really is one.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Ragnell » Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:47 am

Mr. Strawberry wrote:Further reflection not directly related to Part 18:
During my recent rewatch of the first two seasons -- which began to overlap The Return -- I found the Windom Earle character and storyline to be sort of embarrassingly bad. It felt so banal and immature compared with everything that had come before it.

Similarly, the Annie storyline was a bit difficult. I found it heartwarming way back when I originally watched the show and beyond, but during this rewatch, the lack of depth really jumped out at me. They seem to fall in love in the space of a few days. Maybe I'm just jealous, but it seemed rushed, and inauthentic.

Not to mention, Annie didn't seem like the kind of girl that Cooper would fall for when you consider his reasons for rejecting Audrey. She seemed inexperienced and a bit childlike even, and regardless of her backstory, she lacked a certain dynamism that was written all over Audrey. Mystery, I suppose, didn't seem to be there. Audrey seemed like the kind of woman that would always challenge and stimulate, always be there for an adventure. Annie struck me as an undeveloped character, portrayed as nowhere near as "emotionally intelligent" as Audrey.

These are just a few things that highlight how strong The Return is, and how it put the Peaks back into a story that had lost its way.


Really, the Return makes her even more of an outlier. If you mapped the character traits of Diane (we'd have to count her tulpa here), Janey-E and Audrey on a Venn Diagram you'd probably get a decent amount of overlap. Annie has no overlap with Diane and Janey-E. It's clear that Cooper, whatever his form, likes a woman who challenges him. In the case of both Evans sisters, he seems to prefer someone who takes care of him as opposed to someone he needs to watch out for.

It seems like the romance with Annie surfaced because Cooper was open to love, particularly in this setting, after nearly dying, but wasn't willing to go for Audrey. Annie, despite her inexperience, was a few years out of school. But yeah, it didn't seem substantial at all, which is why I think Dale offering up his soul was something he'd have done for just about anybody in the Lodge. And after 25 years there, his mind really doesn't go to her before it goes to Laura or his job or Gordon.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Deep Thought » Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:56 am

Manwith wrote:
Deep Thought wrote:
Manwith wrote:
For some strange definition of "proven".


Tell me how your definition of proven would not categorize the first 2 minutes of these scenes as synced?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-BDU-TvlTg


Huh? I watched or 45 seconds and the images don't seem to even have anything to do with each other? People looking for patterns can find them whether or not there really is one.


I think you are putting me on now. Really, 45 seconds? Watch for 59 seconds please. I did specify 2 minutes in my post, but you really only need 59 seconds, not 45. :lol:
"E.g." means "for example". What I think you want to say is "i.e.".
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby wxray » Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:07 pm

Deep Thought wrote:
wxray wrote:
MysteryMan14 wrote:Things continue. Forever. They can cook up a Season 4 if you really want it. I don't really care.


I don't remember this board having folks dropping by to poop on Twin Peaks before season 3. Seemed it was more for fans back then. I have faith the disappointeds will be drifting away soon. Or at least hanging out in the season 2 forum. Let's hope.

I'm not a big forum person. And why would anyone who is not optimistic just drop by while TP is hiatus? If I was into forums, I'd probably have been here earlier with no thought of poop at all. The reason there is reaction now with new members is because of new material, simple as that.

I still am a Lynch fan, and have been so since Eraserhead. Loved the duplicity of Lost Highway. Liked the Lynch episodes of the original Twin Peaks. And I like many parts of The Return. But the overall experience fell flat for me, and therefore I don't care about a Season 4. I do wish the best for all who want it, and I suppose if there is one, I'd watch it. But right now, I'm raw and don't care.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Novalis » Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:14 pm

Deep Thought wrote:
Novalis wrote:Slap on the colour key filters to find hidden details, listen to the soundtrack through water, watch three different playback speeds of the show simultaneously, upside down, with every 3rd and 15th frame dropped through an anamorphic lens and all references to tulpas swapped out with footage of the woman shot through the eye in the 'Odessa steps' scene of Battleship Potemkin. Juice, dice and slice whatever meanings can be squeezed out of the thing. Post your findings in a blog. I'll read anything once. :lol:


I would love to hear this criticism from someone who has actually watched the last 15 minutes synched up, including the end credits. The Lynch/Frost logo was presented at the end of episode 18 without sound because it was the last episode and so therefore it should have no sound? OK, that seems like an empty gesture. The lights went out after all, not the sound.

In a show already proven to have synced scenes in play, and accepted as being non-linear, why this is so hard to believe?

Again, if someone who has watched the synced episodes cares to comment, it would mean more than nothing.


Hey there Deep Thought, how you doing?

I watched the final few minutes of the sync up and I read the blog on medium but I'm still not convinced. I'll admit there are some uncanny correspondences between the two streams, and like I say I'm impressed with the lateral thinking but I just don't find the conclusions all that persuasive.

Please ignore the biting sarcasm of the post you cited; none of it was meant to be taken seriously or personally -- just a general reflection on human nature (including mine of course). I'm just jealous because I don't have any copies of the episodes to jam with (I watch TPTR using NowTV online, so I don't have any video files to play with, and they've even disabled screen captures now so I'm really grumpy and sad about that).

I'm one of the ones who obsessed over Ed's glitchy reflection. Once I get hold of the discs for this season I'll be going through them with a fine tooth comb myself. :D
As a matter of fact, 'Chalfont' was the name of the people that rented this space before. Two Chalfonts. Weird, huh?
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Deep Thought » Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:21 pm

wxray wrote:I'm not a big forum person. And why would anyone who is not optimistic just drop by while TP is hiatus? If I was into forums, I'd probably have been here earlier with no thought of poop at all. The reason there is reaction now with new members is because of new material, simple as that.

I still am a Lynch fan, and have been so since Eraserhead. Loved the duplicity of Lost Highway. Liked the Lynch episodes of the original Twin Peaks. And I like many parts of The Return. But the overall experience fell flat for me, and therefore I don't care about a Season 4. I do wish the best for all who want it, and I suppose if there is one, I'd watch it. But right now, I'm raw and don't care.


To each their own. I can't imagine dropping by a GOT thread just to say how ambivalent about it I was. But I do understand nostalgia to be a powerful emotion. All I am saying is soon we'll soon be back to a time when we won't have so much griping on this forum. There is always some, just like there is and was for season 2, but it didn't dominate and infect every thread, like it is doing now.
"E.g." means "for example". What I think you want to say is "i.e.".
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Venus » Sat Sep 09, 2017 2:20 pm

Deep Thought wrote:
wxray wrote:I'm not a big forum person. And why would anyone who is not optimistic just drop by while TP is hiatus? If I was into forums, I'd probably have been here earlier with no thought of poop at all. The reason there is reaction now with new members is because of new material, simple as that.

I still am a Lynch fan, and have been so since Eraserhead. Loved the duplicity of Lost Highway. Liked the Lynch episodes of the original Twin Peaks. And I like many parts of The Return. But the overall experience fell flat for me, and therefore I don't care about a Season 4. I do wish the best for all who want it, and I suppose if there is one, I'd watch it. But right now, I'm raw and don't care.


To each their own. I can't imagine dropping by a GOT thread just to say how ambivalent about it I was. But I do understand nostalgia to be a powerful emotion. All I am saying is soon we'll soon be back to a time when we won't have so much griping on this forum. There is always some, just like there is and was for season 2, but it didn't dominate and infect every thread, like it is doing now.


Hi there Deep Thought :D How are you today?
When Jupiter and Saturn meet...
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Deep Thought » Sat Sep 09, 2017 2:29 pm

Venus wrote:
Deep Thought wrote:
wxray wrote:I'm not a big forum person. And why would anyone who is not optimistic just drop by while TP is hiatus? If I was into forums, I'd probably have been here earlier with no thought of poop at all. The reason there is reaction now with new members is because of new material, simple as that.

I still am a Lynch fan, and have been so since Eraserhead. Loved the duplicity of Lost Highway. Liked the Lynch episodes of the original Twin Peaks. And I like many parts of The Return. But the overall experience fell flat for me, and therefore I don't care about a Season 4. I do wish the best for all who want it, and I suppose if there is one, I'd watch it. But right now, I'm raw and don't care.


To each their own. I can't imagine dropping by a GOT thread just to say how ambivalent about it I was. But I do understand nostalgia to be a powerful emotion. All I am saying is soon we'll soon be back to a time when we won't have so much griping on this forum. There is always some, just like there is and was for season 2, but it didn't dominate and infect every thread, like it is doing now.


Hi there Deep Thought :D How are you today?


I'm well, do I know you from another board? I can't remember sorry!
"E.g." means "for example". What I think you want to say is "i.e.".
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Venus » Sat Sep 09, 2017 2:42 pm

Deep Thought wrote:
Venus wrote:
Deep Thought wrote:
To each their own. I can't imagine dropping by a GOT thread just to say how ambivalent about it I was. But I do understand nostalgia to be a powerful emotion. All I am saying is soon we'll soon be back to a time when we won't have so much griping on this forum. There is always some, just like there is and was for season 2, but it didn't dominate and infect every thread, like it is doing now.


Hi there Deep Thought :D How are you today?


I'm well, do I know you from another board? I can't remember sorry!


Argh. I can't either! :)
When Jupiter and Saturn meet...
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Deep Thought » Sat Sep 09, 2017 2:47 pm

Novalis wrote:
Deep Thought wrote:
Novalis wrote:Slap on the colour key filters to find hidden details, listen to the soundtrack through water, watch three different playback speeds of the show simultaneously, upside down, with every 3rd and 15th frame dropped through an anamorphic lens and all references to tulpas swapped out with footage of the woman shot through the eye in the 'Odessa steps' scene of Battleship Potemkin. Juice, dice and slice whatever meanings can be squeezed out of the thing. Post your findings in a blog. I'll read anything once. :lol:


I would love to hear this criticism from someone who has actually watched the last 15 minutes synched up, including the end credits. The Lynch/Frost logo was presented at the end of episode 18 without sound because it was the last episode and so therefore it should have no sound? OK, that seems like an empty gesture. The lights went out after all, not the sound.

In a show already proven to have synced scenes in play, and accepted as being non-linear, why this is so hard to believe?

Again, if someone who has watched the synced episodes cares to comment, it would mean more than nothing.


Hey there Deep Thought, how you doing?

I watched the final few minutes of the sync up and I read the blog on medium but I'm still not convinced. I'll admit there are some uncanny correspondences between the two streams, and like I say I'm impressed with the lateral thinking but I just don't find the conclusions all that persuasive.

Please ignore the biting sarcasm of the post you cited; none of it was meant to be taken seriously or personally -- just a general reflection on human nature (including mine of course). I'm just jealous because I don't have any copies of the episodes to jam with (I watch TPTR using NowTV online, so I don't have any video files to play with, and they've even disabled screen captures now so I'm really grumpy and sad about that).

I'm one of the ones who obsessed over Ed's glitchy reflection. Once I get hold of the discs for this season I'll be going through them with a fine tooth comb myself. :D


Hey, no worries. :D

The clincher for me, like I've mentioned a few times, is the L/F logo at the end of 18. Watching live I was jarred by the lack of "electricity" and I still think it is the only time the logo has played without sound. At the time I thought it was some weird tribute for the final episode, but now I beleive it is silent so as not to interfere with the combined closing music from episodes 18 and 17, in that order. Add that to the very obvious syncing of the two Coop in a box scenes, which at the time I also filed away as a "clue," and here I am. That's even without noticing the uncanny and frankly relevant matching of the last 10 minutes. And Coop's face superimposed in 17.

What does the syncing accomplish? It shows us Laura definitively defeating Judy, which many people had already figured out without any "tricks." It shows us the infinite loop of time. It gives us a poignant ending with Julie Cruz, which was my favorite bit. :D
"E.g." means "for example". What I think you want to say is "i.e.".
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Ragnell » Sat Sep 09, 2017 3:02 pm

Deep Thought wrote:
Novalis wrote:
Deep Thought wrote:
I would love to hear this criticism from someone who has actually watched the last 15 minutes synched up, including the end credits. The Lynch/Frost logo was presented at the end of episode 18 without sound because it was the last episode and so therefore it should have no sound? OK, that seems like an empty gesture. The lights went out after all, not the sound.

In a show already proven to have synced scenes in play, and accepted as being non-linear, why this is so hard to believe?

Again, if someone who has watched the synced episodes cares to comment, it would mean more than nothing.


Hey there Deep Thought, how you doing?

I watched the final few minutes of the sync up and I read the blog on medium but I'm still not convinced. I'll admit there are some uncanny correspondences between the two streams, and like I say I'm impressed with the lateral thinking but I just don't find the conclusions all that persuasive.

Please ignore the biting sarcasm of the post you cited; none of it was meant to be taken seriously or personally -- just a general reflection on human nature (including mine of course). I'm just jealous because I don't have any copies of the episodes to jam with (I watch TPTR using NowTV online, so I don't have any video files to play with, and they've even disabled screen captures now so I'm really grumpy and sad about that).

I'm one of the ones who obsessed over Ed's glitchy reflection. Once I get hold of the discs for this season I'll be going through them with a fine tooth comb myself. :D


Hey, no worries. :D

The clincher for me, like I've mentioned a few times, is the L/F logo at the end of 18. Watching live I was jarred by the lack of "electricity" and I still think it is the only time the logo has played without sound. At the time I thought it was some weird tribute for the final episode, but now I beleive it is silent so as not to interfere with the combined closing music from episodes 18 and 17, in that order. Add that to the very obvious syncing of the two Coop in a box scenes, which at the time I also filed away as a "clue," and here I am. That's even without noticing the uncanny and frankly relevant matching of the last 10 minutes. And Coop's face superimposed in 17.

What does the syncing accomplish? It shows us Laura definitively defeating Judy, which many people had already figured out without any "tricks." It shows us the infinite loop of time. It gives us a poignant ending with Julie Cruz, which was my favorite bit. :D


All right. And I tend to read things positively in this ending, but there is something that confuses me a bit if this was a defeat of Judy rather than an open ending or a repeating cycle. If Judy's defeated when Laura screams and the lights go out... why is the next image Laura whispering into Cooper's ear, while he reacts with utter horror? How does that suit the combined watch if the end is supposed to be a victory?

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