Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Discussion of each of the 18 parts of Twin Peaks the Return

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BHell
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby BHell » Sat Sep 09, 2017 4:17 pm

Mmh ... having read the theory and having watched one of the 17/18-in-synch edits on youtube, I'm still not convinced the episodes/parts were intended to be experienced this way. Yes, playing them in parallel works, but so does pineapple on a pizza (and that was certainly not originally intended). I'll try to explain why I think it does (coincidentially) work:

1.) Despite Lynch breaking nearly every classic rule of filmmaking, each and every episode is edited in a way that follows traditional compositional dramatic theory; a characteristic rise and fall of plot intensity and tension, peaking predominantly in the middle, and slightly towards the end (funny: 2 peaks). And that is for a good reason: it makes for a smooth and thrilling viewing experience. If you pay attention to it, you'll notice that every part's most pivotal scene happens around the fifty-percent-mark. Also, Lynch tends to end all parts on some highlight or cliffhanger. (This for example explains Laura's scream coinciding with Sarah/Judy attacking her picture.)

2.) Both episodes (but especially part 18) are kept relatively calm. Many scenes are completely silent, and dialogues have long pauses. This naturally leaves enough room for lines from the other episode to "fit in" nicely. Notice that while this more often works than not, sometimes it does not. And when it fails, it fails spectacularly - it results in two lines playing on top of each other, blending into one another and creating some indistinguishable mess. Playing another "silent" episode in parallel with 17 or 18 should work the same. Has anyone tried part 8 with 18?

3.) Probability theory works in mysterious ways ... well, not really. but the human mind does: We easily recognize odd occurances and ignore the unremarkable. That way, we overestimate how often someting "special" occurs and create our own confirmation bias. We simply have a hard time believing that events, that have a miniscule probability of happening, tend to happen quite often. Mathematically speaking, let each episode have a few dozen scenes, and each scene maybe 10 to 20 subsections. If, of those, for every "subsection" of part 17 there is only, say, two or three "subsections" of part 18 that would match, there actually is a very good chance that some of those pairings surface if you play any two permutations of scenes/subsections simultainously.

4.) There IS intended parallelism in Twin Peaks. Lynch even blatantly repeats scenes, like Cooper "loosing" Laura in the forest (in these very episodes), or earlier Dr. AMP's podcast and the 1-1-9-lady. There are may repeating plot points, motives, dialogue lines ("story of the little girl who lives down the lane"), etc. . So, yes, I concurr that the screenplay and parts of the editing try to evoke a sense of recurrence and repeat. But stating that 17 and 18 are meant to be watched in-synch goes a step to far.

I admit, watching those parts in parallel is an interesting experience.It that can even give you some new perspectives, guiding your view to some specific moments that you would otherwise have neglected. And yes, Julee Cruise closing up everything is really nice (has someone informed her of this? It might pacify her.) .
On the other hand, the constant influx of two sets of data might also overwhelm you and make you miss some things. To a first time viewer, the usual "sequential" way should be far easier to grasp.
And while I did enjoy the unusal approach, in the future I will certainly opt to watch them seperately. At least most of the time.
Hester Prynne
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Hester Prynne » Sat Sep 09, 2017 5:46 pm

ThumbsUp wrote:
Good to hear you're safe Hester... I have family in Florida and my parents are still reeling from Harvey in Houston. Stay safe all.

I've posited that the Conveniencr Store acts as a hub world or nexus or stop-over (it is convenient after all) that Coop, Evil Coop, Diane, Audrey and Laura have all passed through at some point.

People use phones to travel in and out. We know this because it's what Mr. C does. Audrey wants hers to ring because she's been trapped there since Mr C. took her and Diane there years ago. That's why no one in town mentions Audrey; she's missing. And she's been waiting for the phone to ring because she wants to leave. And we know she's not in as mental hospital because of the electrical sounds and backwards band. Also, the doors Charlie is blocking are the same ones Mrs. Chalfont beckons Laura through in FWWM.

Meanwhile, Carrie is in our "real world" and was placed there after Coop saved Laura as part of the plan to defeat Judy. Judy senses that and that's why Carrie's phone is ringing - Judy wants to suck her back into the Store or Lodge.

(FWIW, I think Carrie senses the threat subconsciously which is why she wants to get the hell out of Dodge.)

No idea about Charlie, but I think he is an agent of evil. He wants Audrey to stay put because he knows, like Diane, if she were to escape she'd help Coop in his mission.


Thanks, ThumbsUp. Sorry to hear about your parents, and I hope everyone in your family will be okay.

I really like the idea of the Convenience Store operating as some sort of portal and the phones working as a means of transport between realities. The first time I saw the scene where Mr. C was transported through the phone, all I could think of was The Matrix. Do any of our Lynch scholars on the forum know if DKL was a fan of this movie? I ask only because it's interesting that The Return is also dealing with a world that may not be real or is being altered/created by an outside force. Perhaps Judy's arrival/possession of Sarah is the catalyst for all the bizarre scenes we see with the sick girl in the car, the crazy guy in the jail, etc. The more time passes, the more I feel like DKL/Frost were actually thinking of a Season 4 and maybe setting up Judy to be the new Bob in case they decided to make another run at it.

I also like the idea of Audrey, Laura, and Diane being trapped because they would likely help Coop. Charlie and Sarah's mention of "stories" and the repetition of the story by the arm makes me wonder if Judy has taken over the black lodge/red room. Maybe she is what's "in their house now." I can't decide if she has always been connected to the lodges/red room or if she is a separate and powerful force altogether that is trying to gain more dominion by controlling the lodges.
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Deep Thought
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Deep Thought » Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:19 pm

BHell wrote:Mmh ... having read the theory and having watched one of the 17/18-in-synch edits on youtube, I'm still not convinced the episodes/parts were intended to be experienced this way. Yes, playing them in parallel works, but so does pineapple on a pizza (and that was certainly not originally intended). I'll try to explain why I think it does (coincidentially) work:. . . snip . . . excellent comments.


I love this and agree completely. They were not meant to be experienced this way, they were meant to be analyzed this way. Lynch is well aware of the internet’s habit of breaking down and building up every detail and structure in a microscope, and has accommodated for it in the past. In MD DVD he blurred out Laura Harding’s nether regions, which were not visible in the theatrical release because of darkened exposure. He explained he was protecting Laura’s image from the internet’s manipulation and propagation of the image, which he was sure to happen instantaneously upon the DVD’s release. (In less enlightened times this was referred to as Cootergate, if I recall correctly).

No need to go down the rabbit hole, as in time the holes will expand and reveal secrets on their own. I agree that the long silences in many takes are very intriguing.

BTW, the end of season 2 ended with the Lynch/Frost logo in full electricity mode. Why not after the season 3 finale? Why the unprecedented silent logo? What other possible explanation could there be other than not to interrupt the music during a sync of episode 17? “Editing error” will be the first reason, so maybe someone can skip that and come up with a second. I’m open to one, but it would have to make sense and not just be “because someone thought it would be a good salute to the end of the show” or something. I was as skeptical as you until I [didn’t] hear that logo.
"E.g." means "for example". What I think you want to say is "i.e.".
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Jasper
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Jasper » Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:35 pm

Laura's scream reverberating into the darkness, and the spooky, hushed audio work and haunting image of Laura whispering into Coop's ear are reason enough not to end with the loud Lynch/Frost zap (and the sound of the Showtime animation). It lets the spookiness linger rather than jolting us out of it.

The spookiness is certainly lingering with me. I've been spooked-out going on a week.

This is not to say that there aren't some fascinating parallels between the endings of parts 17 and 18.
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Deep Thought
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Deep Thought » Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:48 pm

Jasper wrote:Laura's scream reverberating into the darkness, and the spooky, hushed audio work and haunting image of Laura whispering into Coop's ear are reason enough not to end with the loud Lynch/Frost zap (and the sound of the Showtime animation). It lets the spookiness linger rather than jolting us out of it.


The same could be said of most other episodes this season, including 17. The logo is always jarring. And a special request must have been made to mute the Showtime logo as well. I doubt Showtime routinely mutes their own logo after the end of particularly moving episodes of one of their shows. Heck, maybe they do, I've never seen any other show on showtime. Still, to me this is strong tea.
"E.g." means "for example". What I think you want to say is "i.e.".
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Jasper
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Jasper » Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:06 pm

Deep Thought wrote:
Jasper wrote:Laura's scream reverberating into the darkness, and the spooky, hushed audio work and haunting image of Laura whispering into Coop's ear are reason enough not to end with the loud Lynch/Frost zap (and the sound of the Showtime animation). It lets the spookiness linger rather than jolting us out of it.


The same could be said of most other episodes this season, including 17. The logo is always jarring. And a special request must have been made to mute the Showtime logo as well. I doubt Showtime routinely mutes their own logo after the end of particularly moving episodes of one of their shows. Heck, maybe they do, I've never seen any other show on showtime. Still, to me this is strong tea.


None of the other parts ends with the hushed intensity of part 18, because none of the other parts features anything as full-tilt unsettling as the conclusion of part 18. What's more, none of the other parts represent the conclusion of The Return (and perhaps even the conclusion of Twin Peaks).

This is not to say that you're necessarily wrong. I'm simply pointing out that there are reasonable explanations for the muted Lynch/Frost and Showtime animations other than the idea that 17 and 18 are intended to reveal secrets when watched simultaneously.
BHell
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby BHell » Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:15 pm

Deep Thought wrote:BTW, the end of season 2 ended with the Lynch/Frost logo in full electricity mode. Why not after the season 3 finale? Why the unprecedented silent logo? What other possible explanation could there be other than not to interrupt the music during a sync of episode 17? “Editing error” will be the first reason, so maybe someone can skip that and come up with a second. I’m open to one, but it would have to make sense and not just be “because someone thought it would be a good salute to the end of the show” or something. I was as skeptical as you until I [didn’t] hear that logo.


Off the top of my head:

The buzzing sound at the end is something we have become accustomed to, something we relate to Twin Peaks itself. The buzz missing is a telltale sign of something being amiss, unease and unfamiliarity. Within the series, electricity has always been connected to the lodges, and The Return used it as a means of transportation - right until the 430-miles-mark.

But when Cooper and Carrie enter alternate Twin Peaks, the Double-R is uncharacteristically unlit. And when Carrie becomes Laura, the Palmer-House goes dark. All of this tells us: This is not Twin Peaks as we know it. Furthermore, Cooper might have lost his connection to the lodge spirits - at least we haven't seen Mike or the Fireman in this strange world.


Deep Thought wrote:The same could be said of most other episodes this season, including 17. The logo is always jarring. And a special request must have been made to mute the Showtime logo as well. I doubt Showtime routinely mutes their own logo after the end of particularly moving episodes of one of their shows. Heck, maybe they do, I've never seen any other show on showtime. Still, to me this is strong tea.


The ending of part 18 is different to every other episode's ending - in that: Laura is back, which is great for te forces of "good", but a horrible experience for her. Our main characters are stuck in some strange Pseudo-Twin-Peaks without electricity. It's also the only time we, as viewers, end an episode in that "zone". The season 2 ending had an unfamiliar Cooper, but everything else was what it was supposed to be. This time, it's the other way around. Cooper is more or less Cooper, Laura is back, but their surroundings feel wrong. So, why not drive this point home by simply omitting the sound from the logo?
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby claaa7 » Sun Sep 10, 2017 3:01 am

Deep Thought wrote:
BHell wrote:Mmh ... having read the theory and having watched one of the 17/18-in-synch edits on youtube, I'm still not convinced the episodes/parts were intended to be experienced this way. Yes, playing them in parallel works, but so does pineapple on a pizza (and that was certainly not originally intended). I'll try to explain why I think it does (coincidentially) work:. . . snip . . . excellent comments.


BTW, the end of season 2 ended with the Lynch/Frost logo in full electricity mode. Why not after the season 3 finale? Why the unprecedented silent logo? What other possible explanation could there be other than not to interrupt the music during a sync of episode 17? “Editing error” will be the first reason, so maybe someone can skip that and come up with a second. I’m open to one, but it would have to make sense and not just be “because someone thought it would be a good salute to the end of the show” or something. I was as skeptical as you until I [didn’t] hear that logo.


in my reading the logo being completely silent at the end is directly related to the power going out at the Palmer house at the end. there's no more electricity left so we don't hear the sound of electricity anymore.. i'm certain that the prolonged black screen after the electricity goes out is narratively important as well (just like it was in the Sopranos ending). my initial gut feeling was that it was as definite an ending that you could get, with the silent logo and the prolonged darkness hammering home the point that there is no more Twin Peaks after that as everything that drove that world as we know it are gone.

after more thinking about it and reading many good takes on the ending online i see other options.. but i still think the silent logo and the prolonged black screen has more narrative importance than allowing a seamless blend with an earlier episode.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby wxray » Sun Sep 10, 2017 4:17 am

Ragnell wrote:All right. And I tend to read things positively in this ending, but there is something that confuses me a bit if this was a defeat of Judy rather than an open ending or a repeating cycle. If Judy's defeated when Laura screams and the lights go out... why is the next image Laura whispering into Cooper's ear, while he reacts with utter horror? How does that suit the combined watch if the end is supposed to be a victory?

I read it the same way, i.e. not a victory. And that's what has left me raw.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Jerry Horne » Sun Sep 10, 2017 8:32 am

I can't wait for tonight's...

Oh shit.

I was really impressed with the lady who answered the door at the "Palmer" house. We know she is not an actor but the actual owner of the house. The way she keeps glancing at Carrie/Laura and the fact that she doesn't seem surprised at all that a member of the FBI is visiting her at night asking her a bunch of questions. Not to mention her talking with someone out of sight. Calm, cool and creepy. Well done.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Robin Davies » Sun Sep 10, 2017 8:54 am

Deep Thought wrote:Tell me how your definition of proven would not categorize the first 2 minutes of these scenes as synced?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-BDU-TvlTg
Can you explain what you think this shows because I'm baffled. Parts of two episodes have been synced with the one common sequence lined up at the same time. So what?
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Panapaok » Sun Sep 10, 2017 10:14 am

Jerry Horne wrote:I was really impressed with the lady who answered the door at the "Palmer" house. We know she is not an actor but the actual owner of the house. The way she keeps glancing at Carrie/Laura and the fact that she doesn't seem surprised at all that a member of the FBI is visiting her at night asking her a bunch of questions. Not to mention her talking with someone out of sight. Calm, cool and creepy. Well done.
Yup. I was worried when I heard that the real life owners of the house will appear in the show but she was pretty great indeed.
This is - excuse me - a damn fine cup of coffee.
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Deep Thought
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Deep Thought » Sun Sep 10, 2017 10:19 am

Robin Davies wrote:
Deep Thought wrote:Tell me how your definition of proven would not categorize the first 2 minutes of these scenes as synced?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-BDU-TvlTg
Can you explain what you think this shows because I'm baffled. Parts of two episodes have been synced with the one common sequence lined up at the same time. So what?


Uh, that's all it shows. So you got it. "Parts of two episodes have been synced with the one common sequence lined up at the same time." Those two scenes were each a part of their own narrative threads and were shown in two different parts broadcast on the same night. Parts 1 and 2. Yet they interweave in a precise temporal manner that that calls attention (by recycling shots) to their integration. When I saw on premier night it stood out as an "obvious" marker, or clue, ala MD.

There is no "need" to see 17 and 18 synced up. The interpretation of Sarah/Judy being defeated by Laura/Cooper was one I held before I learned about the sync, and can be supported just fine without it. Watch it synced then just for the Oz/Floyd enjoyment of it even if you think it was an accident. It's neat.

I will be keeping Sarah's moaning scene slotted as happening concurrently with Laura and Cooper walking away from the Palmer house scene regardless of the sync issue.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby vicksvapor77 » Sun Sep 10, 2017 10:41 am

John Justice Wheeler wrote:From the critic and writer David Auerbach comes this interpretive theory and it's about the most thorough and best one I've seen. Should become the de facto one afaic.


So does he think Laura was saved from death in the original timeline? Man, I really want to read an in-depth theory that feels the original series and movie still happened as we saw them, with Laura dying, and have it make sense. Anyone got any of those? :(
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby N. Needleman » Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:36 am

I see theories which are all very compelling, but I just don't see any substantive evidence that Cooper erased the original timeline. I think people who do that are assuming Lynch/Frost are taking a very conventional approach to time travel and changing history - that once it's done everything snaps into place in the future, like in a million other TV shows and movies.

But Lynch and Frost clearly do not do that in 18: After Cooper saves Laura he still meets Diane in Glastonberry Grove, just as they'd planned to do before he changed the past. How could any of that have happened to see to it that he and Diane meet there if the original timeline does not exist, and is not waiting for him to return to with part of his mission complete?

With that plus the subsequent sequence of events (Janey-E and Sonny Jim, etc.), the road voyage across the barrier, I think it is very very clear that Cooper and Diane go from one world (the original timeline) to another (the changed timeline). The other is warped and strange, and Cooper does not find what he expects to (i.e. Laura alive and whole, Sarah in the house).

The answer here is simple and messy: Lynch and Frost do not treat the effects of time travel the same as other shows, and thus not with perfect logic. In their story Cooper and Diane have to literally drive through the border to cross into a new timeline. That's how they wanted to do it. Done.
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