Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Discussion of each of the 18 parts of Twin Peaks the Return

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Denise's Pieces
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Denise's Pieces » Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:05 pm

Lord! 82 pages and I'm finally through them all!
I have several take-aways from the finale, which I loved.
First- Is 20+ years in the Lodge the new Nicorette/Nicotine Patch? You will note that post-Naido Diane doesn't light up once. Tulpa-Diane would have gone through a carton during a 430-mile road trip. We know that Real Diane smoked: "We used to smoke together, didn't we, Diane?" "We sure did, Gordon." Or something like that.

One article I read explored the comparisons between the finale of TP:TR with Stephen King's Dark Tower series, which is exactly the feeling I got watching the episodes. In King's story, the hero is destined to return to the beginning of his quest until he learns from his mistakes, or gets it 'right', or however you want to interpret it. Ka is a wheel. In Cooper's case, Ka is a figure 8; Where the line intersects different timelines/dimensions/hootenannies can be accessed.

Someone here stated that when Dale is leading Laura through the forest in part 18, it is a replay of the same scene in part 17. I don't believe this is true. In part 18, this might be the 2nd time he's gone through the loop trying to walk Laura to the White Lodge. Maybe it was the hundredth time.

My first impression of the Dale we see in Odessa is of someone who is older, tired. Confused from so many loops trying to 'Find Laura'. He's now in a world that has a darkness, like Twin Peaks before, that is different than the one we live in. There's an undercurrent of danger and violence. This is a world fully under Judy's influence. A world where cowboy assholes harass a waitress and think it's OK to do so (OK, so maybe it's not THAT different from the world WE live in these days). A world where a dead man is dismissed with the regard of a soiled rug. There are no repercussions for violent acts in this world.
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Saturn's child
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Saturn's child » Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:49 pm

Mr. Reindeer wrote:Part 18 intriguingly hints that this more restrained, serious "man of few words" might be closer to the true Cooper? Is his quirky boyishness a put-on/comfort mechanism that masks his true darker quieter self? Does this parallel DKL and his "Jimmy Stewart from Mars" public persona?


Mr. Reindeer wrote:...just as Dale gave his warmth and enthusiasm to his Dougie-tulpa (perhaps), Mr. C might have lost his passion for pleasures of the flesh when he made Dougie 1.0. Dougie seems to have been living the kind of bacchanalian lifestyle we might have expected from the doppel.


I think these are excellent points, thank you for raising them. Somewhat connected, I think it's telling that we never see any of the 'Cooper' iterations alive with one another; they're all clearly delineated, again suggesting the notion that they are elements of a whole, rather than several different characters moving about. Kyle, & -- in general -- Lynch's male protagonists appear to serve an autobiographic function & the Return seems to continue that trend, perhaps moreso. DKL's excessive (?) positivity/boyishness always struck me as carrying a darker undercurrent, which Season 3 continues to expound.

Mibbler wrote:Do you think that the dead man we see at Carrie Page´s house is the same guy of Part 6 (Ronnie Gene Blevins)? He´s not credited at the end.


Wow, great catch! Not sure what this means from a wider perspective, but this is definitely something interesting to chew on.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby BHell » Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:59 pm

Mr. Strawberry wrote:Out of curiosity I checked how many miles the drive is from the Trinity Test site to Odessa, Texas. If one heads south to El Paso, then east to the outskirts of Odessa, it's exactly 430 miles. Probably just a coincidence though.


That's certainly the best guess for point A and B of Cooper and Diane's journey I've heard yet.

My (rather simplistic) approach was to draw a 430-miles-circle around northern Washington (as the last time we saw Coop and Diane was at Glastonbury Grove, so Twin Peaks was the obvious choice for a set off point) and see if I could find an area within that radius that looked even remotely like where they end up in the episode. I gave up, because I couldn't - and because I had no idea where else to start.

Trinity test site to Odessa works far better. The one little gripe I have with it: There would have been far shorter and faster routes. Google Maps gives me a fair number of routes of around 340 miles. So Cooper would not only have to know where to start and in which direction to go, but also to take a detour to El Paso. And I find that's still a bit of a reach.

However, until someone finds a better explanation, I'll take yours.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby LateReg » Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:21 pm

Ashok wrote:
Cipher wrote:For me, the possibility that Cooper may have heeded the Fireman's words correctly--that, after many more cycles of strangeness and suffering, he (now more complete, though less sure-footed) and Laura (probably with Laura guiding the way) may make something of this yet--is exactly what prevents the ending from being as entirely bleak as its tone implies.


I think this is my favorite explanation thus far. I don't view Part 18 as a bleak ending --- or really even an ending at all. My take is that Cooper's destiny was to first defeat Mr. C/BOB at the sheriff station with the help of the green glove kid. With that mission completed, Coop's now been tasked with a new quest that has been re-framed around the show's original mystery, Laura Palmer. Where that journey leads is hard to speculate on but I want to believe the Fireman will continue to guide Cooper closer to some sort of "nirvana". There's no way he would feed Coop these clues about 430 and Richard/Linda to just abandon him, right? :shock:


I'm still making my way through this thread and posting willy-nilly, but as I've already posted I believe there's a chance that The Fireman was warning Cooper about his identity slippage into Richard. That Cooper would only be able to hang on to his mission by remembering his own identity, even though he's essentially been transported into the life of Richard, who appears to be a composite of all Coopers. If Cooper drifts totally into Richard, then all hope is lost, so the Fireman tells him to remember "Richard" so that Cooper remembers himself. I could be totally wrong, but it's what I keep coming back to regarding the Fireman's clues. Perhaps not even the Fireman could foresee the Tremonds uprooting the Palmers in that house, or perhaps it is actually a somewhat hopeful ending and all was going to plan and Laura simply needed to remember herself as well.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby BHell » Thu Sep 14, 2017 5:50 pm

LateReg wrote:I'm still making my way through this thread and posting willy-nilly, but as I've already posted I believe there's a chance that The Fireman was warning Cooper about his identity slippage into Richard. That Cooper would only be able to hang on to his mission by remembering his own identity, even though he's essentially been transported into the life of Richard, who appears to be a composite of all Coopers. If Cooper drifts totally into Richard, then all hope is lost, so the Fireman tells him to remember "Richard" so that Cooper remembers himself. I could be totally wrong, but it's what I keep coming back to regarding the Fireman's clues. Perhaps not even the Fireman could foresee the Tremonds uprooting the Palmers in that house, or perhaps it is actually a somewhat hopeful ending and all was going to plan and Laura simply needed to remember herself as well.


I have no doubts whatsoever anymore, that Cooper and the Fireman are working together, and that their endgame is a (minor) victory against Judy. Concerning the clues; we are definitely not getting the whole picture. I consider "430" the most mysterious one (because it omits every other detail: where to start, where to go, why miles and not kilometers/steps/lightyears?).

You could be right that all clues, including "Richard and Linda" were just reminders - but they could as well have been "missing pieces", some last informations Cooper needed. But one way or the other: Dale Cooper knows more than we do. Whether the Richard-and-Linda-clue served as some kind of "anchor", as you suggest, or has some other benefit, will remain, I fear, inconclusive us viewers. But your theory makes sense and fills it with some more meaning, so props for that.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby claaa7 » Fri Sep 15, 2017 12:45 am

BHell wrote:
LateReg wrote:I'm still making my way through this thread and posting willy-nilly, but as I've already posted I believe there's a chance that The Fireman was warning Cooper about his identity slippage into Richard. That Cooper would only be able to hang on to his mission by remembering his own identity, even though he's essentially been transported into the life of Richard, who appears to be a composite of all Coopers. If Cooper drifts totally into Richard, then all hope is lost, so the Fireman tells him to remember "Richard" so that Cooper remembers himself. I could be totally wrong, but it's what I keep coming back to regarding the Fireman's clues. Perhaps not even the Fireman could foresee the Tremonds uprooting the Palmers in that house, or perhaps it is actually a somewhat hopeful ending and all was going to plan and Laura simply needed to remember herself as well.


I have no doubts whatsoever anymore, that Cooper and the Fireman are working together, and that their endgame is a (minor) victory against Judy. Concerning the clues; we are definitely not getting the whole picture. I consider "430" the most mysterious one (because it omits every other detail: where to start, where to go, why miles and not kilometers/steps/lightyears?).

You could be right that all clues, including "Richard and Linda" were just reminders - but they could as well have been "missing pieces", some last informations Cooper needed. But one way or the other: Dale Cooper knows more than we do. Whether the Richard-and-Linda-clue served as some kind of "anchor", as you suggest, or has some other benefit, will remain, I fear, inconclusive us viewers. But your theory makes sense and fills it with some more meaning, so props for that.


Having rewatched the entirety of the series in just 5 days, with the last 9 episodes during 2, this is my feeling as well. Without the long wait between segments it plays out differently and gives much more credence to Coop being on the right path all along.

Something i feel have been thoroughly overlooked is the very detirmend move Cooper does before realizing the right question WHAT YEAR IS it? He lounges forward and reaches out as to grab a door handle. This is the very same move the doppelganger performs 253 yards east of Jack Rabbits. That move help him reach The White Lodge.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby BHell » Fri Sep 15, 2017 6:02 am

claaa7 wrote:Having rewatched the entirety of the series in just 5 days, with the last 9 episodes during 2, this is my feeling as well. Without the long wait between segments it plays out differently and gives much more credence to Coop being on the right path all along.

Something i feel have been thoroughly overlooked is the very detirmend move Cooper does before realizing the right question WHAT YEAR IS it? He lounges forward and reaches out as to grab a door handle. This is the very same move the doppelganger performs 253 yards east of Jack Rabbits. That move help him reach The White Lodge.


I envy you - I have not found enough leasure time yet to do a full rewatch (too much work within the last two weeks). The whole series, including FWWM, should be close to 48 hours, two full days. It would be a great premise for a binge-marathon, but it'd be hard to stay focused towards the end.

Cooper's gesture does also have some similarity with his quick "hand wave" he uses earlier in the same episode to open up the curtains out of the red room. And Dougie-Coop does a resembling "reaching out" move multiple times, whenever he regocnizes familiar things (for example police badges).
I do agree that, standing before the Palmer House and believing to have failed his mission, he tries to connect to the logdes (to communicate with the Fireman or Mike?). My reading was that he does not succeed in "establishing a connection", yet, with your reading, one could conclude that only because he does (succesfully) connect to the lodges, Laura hears her mother calling out to her and awakens (as Coopers gesture, just like Dougie-Coop's before, helped to bring back a memory). I kinda like that.

Another thing: Who do you think he asks his "What year is it?" question to? Laura, himself, or some logde spirit?
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby claaa7 » Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:14 am

BHell wrote:
claaa7 wrote:Having rewatched the entirety of the series in just 5 days, with the last 9 episodes during 2, this is my feeling as well. Without the long wait between segments it plays out differently and gives much more credence to Coop being on the right path all along.

Something i feel have been thoroughly overlooked is the very detirmend move Cooper does before realizing the right question WHAT YEAR IS it? He lounges forward and reaches out as to grab a door handle. This is the very same move the doppelganger performs 253 yards east of Jack Rabbits. That move help him reach The White Lodge.


I envy you - I have not found enough leasure time yet to do a full rewatch (too much work within the last two weeks). The whole series, including FWWM, should be close to 48 hours, two full days. It would be a great premise for a binge-marathon, but it'd be hard to stay focused towards the end.

Cooper's gesture does also have some similarity with his quick "hand wave" he uses earlier in the same episode to open up the curtains out of the red room. And Dougie-Coop does a resembling "reaching out" move multiple times, whenever he regocnizes familiar things (for example police badges).
I do agree that, standing before the Palmer House and believing to have failed his mission, he tries to connect to the logdes (to communicate with the Fireman or Mike?). My reading was that he does not succeed in "establishing a connection", yet, with your reading, one could conclude that only because he does (succesfully) connect to the lodges, Laura hears her mother calling out to her and awakens (as Coopers gesture, just like Dougie-Coop's before, helped to bring back a memory). I kinda like that.

Another thing: Who do you think he asks his "What year is it?" question to? Laura, himself, or some logde spirit?


Im sure you will have a blast whenever you decide to rewatch. I have seen almost all episodes more than once even before the full rewatch but it was something really different seeing it with all the pieces in place.

Sure the hand move opening the curtain to the Grove and Dougies moves are a little bit similair, but watch Mister C entering Jack Rabbit and the move at the end of 18 side by side. They are not a little bit similair, they are damn near identical. Im pretty sure thats how Kyle was directed.

The impression i got is that Cooper gets a revelation, perhaps prompted by the move mentioned above, which he says aloud while trying to piece it together.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby LateReg » Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:00 am

claaa7 wrote:
BHell wrote:
claaa7 wrote:Having rewatched the entirety of the series in just 5 days, with the last 9 episodes during 2, this is my feeling as well. Without the long wait between segments it plays out differently and gives much more credence to Coop being on the right path all along.

Something i feel have been thoroughly overlooked is the very detirmend move Cooper does before realizing the right question WHAT YEAR IS it? He lounges forward and reaches out as to grab a door handle. This is the very same move the doppelganger performs 253 yards east of Jack Rabbits. That move help him reach The White Lodge.


I envy you - I have not found enough leasure time yet to do a full rewatch (too much work within the last two weeks). The whole series, including FWWM, should be close to 48 hours, two full days. It would be a great premise for a binge-marathon, but it'd be hard to stay focused towards the end.

Cooper's gesture does also have some similarity with his quick "hand wave" he uses earlier in the same episode to open up the curtains out of the red room. And Dougie-Coop does a resembling "reaching out" move multiple times, whenever he regocnizes familiar things (for example police badges).
I do agree that, standing before the Palmer House and believing to have failed his mission, he tries to connect to the logdes (to communicate with the Fireman or Mike?). My reading was that he does not succeed in "establishing a connection", yet, with your reading, one could conclude that only because he does (succesfully) connect to the lodges, Laura hears her mother calling out to her and awakens (as Coopers gesture, just like Dougie-Coop's before, helped to bring back a memory). I kinda like that.

Another thing: Who do you think he asks his "What year is it?" question to? Laura, himself, or some logde spirit?


Im sure you will have a blast whenever you decide to rewatch. I have seen almost all episodes more than once even before the full rewatch but it was something really different seeing it with all the pieces in place.

Sure the hand move opening the curtain to the Grove and Dougies moves are a little bit similair, but watch Mister C entering Jack Rabbit and the move at the end of 18 side by side. They are not a little bit similair, they are damn near identical. Im pretty sure thats how Kyle was directed.

The impression i got is that Cooper gets a revelation, perhaps prompted by the move mentioned above, which he says aloud while trying to piece it together.


I took the week off of work when it ended. I took the 18-hour plunge on Tuesday the 5th, started at around 8 AM and finished close to 4 AM since I had to take small breaks for food. The whole thing flowed like a river, everything seemed to make intuitive sense. In a strange way that ending makes sense of everything for me, and it felt so good to watch it all with the ending in mind.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby LateReg » Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:08 am

cgs027 wrote:
sewhite2000 wrote:After Andy emerged from the White Lodge all serene and all-knowing, it seemed like a big step backward for him to bring the would-be agent of Naido's death nearly right to her ... and then also stumble into nearly getting killed by Chad. It was like he was right back to being old Andy. He did have the vision again, but I don't know that it helped in any way.


Agree, he basically told Lucy that the phone call was very important, other than that, didn't seem to help much. And I'm not sure that bit of advice was necessary -- pretty sure Dale Cooper calling her would have freaked her out either way given Mr. C's presence.

Reminds me of Richard Horne apparently going along with being driven back into the vicinity of Twin Peaks without any protests after high-tailing it to Montana and going into hiding for his mini-killing spree...


In the vision Andy is shown maneuvering Lucy into position to where she would shoot Doppelcoop. Andy also is the one who sets up Doppelcoop's chair on the perfect angle in Frank's office so he can't see Lucy behind him. So the vision definitely served its purpose.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Jerry Horne » Fri Sep 15, 2017 1:34 pm

I've only seen 17/18 once properly. I think one of the joys of this new series is that it's so open to interpretation that what it means will vary based on how you see and try and understand what's going on. What else is new right?

I'm sure this has all been covered before but this is what's sticking in my head. The character of Diane (her look anyway) is based on Marjorie Cameron who was the wife of Jack Parsons. Jack and Marjorie were followers of Thelema. A practice filed within would be "Sex Magic":

One practice of sex magic is using the energy of sexual arousal or orgasm with visualization of a desired result. A premise of sex magic is the concept that sexual energy is a potent force that can be harnessed to transcend one's normally perceived reality.

I now wonder if what Cooper and Diane are actually performing is the act of Sex Magic in order for Cooper to change his reality and join Carrie/Laura in her dream. Cooper already said back in the old series that he and Laura shared a dream. That's impossible said Andy! Cooper wakes up the next morning and is dreaming. Diane is no longer needed and is gone. Like a dream, some things are the same yet different. Motel, car etc. Coop finds the dreaming Carrie and takes her to Twin Peaks where again, some things are the same yet different.

Unfortunately some bad hombres are also in their dream. Who answers the door? Has Coop been here before? He doesn't say "what year is it?" He says "What year is this?"

Many things can happen from here. An opening to season four could be Coop waking up in the hotel room next to Diane.
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wxray
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby wxray » Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:49 pm

Jerry Horne wrote:I'm sure this has all been covered before but this is what's sticking in my head. The character of Diane (her look anyway) is based on Marjorie Cameron who was the wife of Jack Parsons. Jack and Marjorie were followers of Thelema. A practice filed within would be "Sex Magic":

Yep, almost certain. Add to it the apparent black egg that appears floating in the red room when Naido turns into Diane. Image

I think for the mystery and tie in, it is great. For me personally, I'm not a fan of Cameron and this tie in pushed me over the edge into the profound disappointed group. That's just me. For everyone else into stuff like sex magik, it must be pretty cool.
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Re: RE: Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby douglasb » Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:59 pm

wxray wrote: For everyone else into stuff like sex magik, it must be pretty cool.


It will be like seeing a "Honk if you are horny" bumper sticker and finding it funny.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Xavi » Sat Sep 16, 2017 3:45 am

FredMadison wrote:Any significance to the cars? In episode 2 (I believe) Evil Coop puts his Mercedes in storage and gets a black Lincoln from Jack. Jack's face is crushed. The scenes that follow involve Darya and Evil Coop in the motel room. In episode 18, it's Good Coop (or Richard) driving, if not the same, an identical Lincoln? Or a Lincoln is simply just a default FBI Agent car, with no direct connection?


There is a vast ocean of possibilities, a huge amount of probable connecting dots. A face massage, two rides in a Lincoln Continental 2010 that only differ because of the licence-plates. Now, the main question IMO is "Why?" Maybe it has something to do with ... death. That car is black, very very black indeed. Just like that car in Rancho Rosa, where 3 out of 5 crooks were cooked. Maybe, it's unrelated?

Image

BTW, I also thought about this the other night.

Image
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Rhodes » Sun Sep 17, 2017 1:42 pm

Two questions:

1. Am I right that we never found out who was with Cooper on the NY-photo?
2. Was the scene with Leo new footage or was it shown in the original show or FWWM?

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