Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Discussion of each of the 18 parts of Twin Peaks the Return

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BigEd
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby BigEd » Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:58 pm

KyleRickards wrote:
Also, if BadCoop had met Judy, what did he expect to happen? That wouldn't have gone well would it?


Just BOB looking for mommy??
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firefly2193
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby firefly2193 » Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:20 pm

thedarktrees wrote:
firefly2193 wrote:
The other mess has to do with Freddie. I feel that whole character has to have some other meaning behind it, because him defeating Bob by punching him is so awful and basically offensive to the original Twin Peaks storyline. People have said its a commentary on Superhero films/shows, but the original show never put its parodying aspects at the heart of the story - the soap opera elements were the things surrounding the central mystery, they were fun decoration. Laura's story was always treated with utmost seriousness. It seems weird that Lynch, having called the [back half] of season 2 "stupid" would write this as the final defeating of Bob. Is it just an awful Mark Frost idea that Lynch has for some reason signed off on?


Yeah I still have a bit of a hard time with the whole Freddie scenario. Like it was SO absurd and even stupid, and they clearly knew that. I more or less subscribe to the idea that it really is a tongue-in-cheek jab at viewer expectations, the desire for resolution and hero triumph etc. If they really wanted a more sincere version of this kind of character and narrative element, the Freddie situation could have been done in countless other non-absurdly comedic ways. His power glove could have given him the ability to catch and contain Bob. Or he could have been given a magic box. Or ANYTHING. But that they went the glove and power punch route is pretty telling that this whole thing is an ironic jab.

Even seeing it that way, I still don't think it works. But I do think that's what it is all about.


Yeah I agree with this - I think there is an attempt to either play on the current state of film/television in the same way Twin Peaks originally played on soap-opera. I just don't think its successful, in part because I don't think it really says *anything* about it, nor does it sincerely use the tropes of the genre its riffing on to actually engage us in the story, the way that the melodrama between Donna and James both poked fun at soaps while also sincerely using them as a device to heighten emotion and draw us into the story. Freddy adds nothing, other than to make one of the climaxes of the show feel farcical. It's greatest crime for me was diminishing Bob as a villain - the story of original Twin Peaks and FWWM was that Bob could only be defeated by Laura. Not some random cockney dude.
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Deep Thought
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Deep Thought » Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:29 pm

Has this been commented on yet? What happens to Mr. C in the giant's cage? I have a guess, but I don't think it is right. (I lightened the second picture up a little.
coop cage.jpg
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coop cage 2.jpg
coop cage 2.jpg (42.49 KiB) Viewed 3660 times
coop cage 3.jpg
coop cage 3.jpg (55 KiB) Viewed 3660 times
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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:40 pm

Deep Thought wrote:Has this been commented on yet? What happens to Mr. C in the giant's cage? I have a guess, but I don't think it is right. (I lightened the second picture up a little. coop cage.jpgcoop cage 2.jpgcoop cage 3.jpg


My first thought was Henry Spencer's hair, although it's not a great match. More a spiritual similarity than literal.
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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:41 pm

asmahan wrote:Did anyone catch what was written on the Texas waitress' name tag? Looked like Xochitl or something beginning with an X.


Pretty sure it was "Kristi."
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby PDCampbell » Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:48 pm

tresojos wrote:is there any link between richard horne (evil coopers seed) and coopers other self being richard? one that is partly bad coop and good coop.


I've been thinking on this too. Obviously it seems to be set up as a red herring with the "Richard and Linda" clue. But I don't think being used as misdirection is its only function.

I'm still curious how much awareness Cooper has of the actions his doppelgänger. He is never confronted with Mr. C's actions, and the two most egregious acts- the assaults on both Audrey and Diane- are threads that run throughout nearly the entire season. Instead, as seen with Diane, he seems rather oblivious to these actions or unable to reconcile what has been done and thus ignoring them.

Perhaps the double name serves as a connection between timelines and that the Mr. C/Richard Horne reality was not erased, or dreamt, but carries over- spiritually, psychically- into the 430 reality. I don't know.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby chromereflectsimage » Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:15 pm

PDCampbell wrote:
tresojos wrote:is there any link between richard horne (evil coopers seed) and coopers other self being richard? one that is partly bad coop and good coop.


I've been thinking on this too. Obviously it seems to be set up as a red herring with the "Richard and Linda" clue. But I don't think being used as misdirection is its only function.

I'm still curious how much awareness Cooper has of the actions his doppelgänger. He is never confronted with Mr. C's actions, and the two most egregious acts- the assaults on both Audrey and Diane- are threads that run throughout nearly the entire season. Instead, as seen with Diane, he seems rather oblivious to these actions or unable to reconcile what has been done and thus ignoring them.

Perhaps the double name serves as a connection between timelines and that the Mr. C/Richard Horne reality was not erased, or dreamt, but carries over- spiritually, psychically- into the 430 reality. I don't know.
Mr C was looking for the experiment. When Cooper went into the Richard reality he still had the same desire to track down the experiment, but for different reasons. I think the death of his son or rather Mr C's son did play a part in Cooper waking from the two Coolers dream, realizing what he had done (Diane is Coolers memories. That's why he asked if she remembered everything) and Coop reacted to this by creating a new fantasy in changing the past where Laura wasn't killed or used her to get rid of Judy in Sarah. I think Sonny Jim sirt if represents Coop imagining going back to Richards childhood to what could've been and that's why Coop was crying when he saw Sonny Jim in the car back in episode 5 or 6.
Last edited by chromereflectsimage on Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby chromereflectsimage » Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:21 pm

PDCampbell wrote:
tresojos wrote:is there any link between richard horne (evil coopers seed) and coopers other self being richard? one that is partly bad coop and good coop.


I've been thinking on this too. Obviously it seems to be set up as a red herring with the "Richard and Linda" clue. But I don't think being used as misdirection is its only function.

I'm still curious how much awareness Cooper has of the actions his doppelgänger. He is never confronted with Mr. C's actions, and the two most egregious acts- the assaults on both Audrey and Diane- are threads that run throughout nearly the entire season. Instead, as seen with Diane, he seems rather oblivious to these actions or unable to reconcile what has been done and thus ignoring them.

Perhaps the double name serves as a connection between timelines and that the Mr. C/Richard Horne reality was not erased, or dreamt, but carries over- spiritually, psychically- into the 430 reality. I don't know.
It reminds me a bit of the eraserhead imagery where Henry imagines his sons head taking over his body, father and son are one in the same. He uses this to justify killing his child.
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asmahan
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby asmahan » Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:29 pm

Mr. Reindeer wrote:
asmahan wrote:Did anyone catch what was written on the Texas waitress' name tag? Looked like Xochitl or something beginning with an X.


Pretty sure it was "Kristi."

Ohh, thank you
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chromereflectsimage
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby chromereflectsimage » Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:34 pm

Why did Mr C have to go through the white lodge to go to the Sherieffs station? Different realities?
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby N. Needleman » Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:12 pm

chromereflectsimage wrote:Why did Mr C have to go through the white lodge to go to the Sherieffs station? Different realities?


He wasn't trying to go there. The Lodge redirected him. IMO he was trying to reach either the Lodge itself or Judy.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby M.T Wentz » Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:47 pm

Hey guys, just went back and read Johnny Jewel's statement that he released upon the release of 'Shadow', which of course soundtracked the finale of Part Two all those months ago, and found it interesting. Don't know if this has been mentioned, but there's a lot of connections to the finale, found it fascinating:


"Everyone has a shadow. There is no real difference between ten years ago and ten seconds ago. Your future determines your past. The flame of nostalgia is a tempting black hole to jump into, but I recognize it as a fantasy.

Romance is brave. So is simplicity. Love is a call to war. Why wouldn’t you want to respect music?"
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby garethw » Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:48 pm

Mr. Reindeer wrote:
asmahan wrote:Did anyone catch what was written on the Texas waitress' name tag? Looked like Xochitl or something beginning with an X.


Pretty sure it was "Kristi."


+1 for Kristi; that popped out to me on "Re-Watch 1" :)
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Ross » Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:51 pm

When I saw the finale for the first time the other night, I had no idea what to make of it. I felt disappointed, frustrated, sad, etc. The last few days I’ve been sitting with it, and I think my thoughts have come together a bit, and I’m forming my own theories. One of the most interesting things about it is that it really can be interpreted in so many ways- many of them opposing. Which seems like something Lynch has got to love. Originally I found it only bleak. Only downbeat. Only loss and failure. And while I still find those things to be true, I think the glimmers are there on the side of good as well.

Here’s my take on things:
The Giant/Fireman originally witnesses the release of a barrage of evil into our world. Not only Bob, but the ultimate evil; the Mother (Judy). She spreads her evil through the world like seeds. The Giant sends Laura as someone to eventually face and fight that evil. Of course Laura ends up choosing her own path to her own salvation.

Fast forward. After Laura’s death, Twin Peaks has become increasingly darker and broken. Sarah has fallen victim to the darkness. Whether that is indeed to Judy herself, and another evil being is debatable. The Giant (and Briggs) guide the pieces to destroy Mr. C and Bob. Tricking Mr. C into finding the coordinates to the White Lodge and sending him to his doom at the sheriff station. Having already guided Freddy, Dale, Andy, etc. there like pawns on a chessboard. Things go as planned and Mr C and Bob are destroyed.

Cooper, partly influenced by the Giant, but also by his blind sense of duty to be both savior and hero, decides to “save” Laura. His mistake being that Laura has already “saved” herself. His failure to realize this will bring consequences. He travels back, and leads Laura away from her death. Things begin to change. Sarah (Judy?) is aware of the tampering with Laura’s fate and is pissed. But then Cooper’s plan is interrupted. My interpretation is it isn’t Judy, or the Giant, its just the rules of the universe saying “No”- you can’t change the past like that. I think at that point the timeline in TP is restored. (I know one big complaint from fans is that the show has basically erased everything that came before. I personally don’t think so. I think the timeline corrected itself when Cooper couldn’t reach his destination with Laura. And even IF a second timeline split off in which she didn’t die, the original timeline still exists.) At this point Laura is whisked away, and displaced somewhere. Again, this could be the Universe itself, or even the Giant trying to hide her from harm. She ends up in an alternate reality as Carrie. I don’t believe Judy has created this reality- Laura has merely been displaced. Displaced to a different reality & identity.

Cooper leaves Glastonbury Grove- most likely in our original unaltered time where Laura has still died. (This seems to be the same Diane we just left, and the Dougie Tulpa goes to Vegas). Cooper goes to find Laura where the Giant says he will find her. He and Diane end up in this alternate reality where even their own identities bleed into the alternate versions of themselves. Cooper, having tried to “save” a Laura that didn’t need saving, is now even further away from home, and from himself, than ever before. He continues this wrong-headed journey returning Carrie/Laura to the place of her ultimate trauma. In which everything comes back to her. He has ultimately lost himself and returned Laura against her will. He was both responsible for his actions and yet still a pawn of the puppetmaster Giant. Its certainly bleak, and yet in the end there still may be hope. As Cooper and Laura end up where the Giant wanted them. With Laura restored and a chance to fight the ultimate darkness.
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garethw
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby garethw » Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:52 pm

"Find Laura."

With all the discussion of breaking the fourth wall, it's curious that Leland's repeated command to "Find Laura" is followed immediately by Coop's exit from the Red Room... and (to my surprise, at least) meeting Laura Dern.

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