Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Discussion of each of the 18 parts of Twin Peaks the Return

Moderators: Annie, BookhouseBoyBob, Ross, Jerry Horne, Brad D

cowwithfivelegs
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:33 pm

Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby cowwithfivelegs » Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:57 pm

Ross wrote:He travels back, and leads Laura away from her death. Things begin to change. Sarah (Judy?) is aware of the tampering with Laura’s fate and is pissed. But then Cooper’s plan is interrupted. My interpretation is it isn’t Judy, or the Giant, its just the rules of the universe saying “No”- you can’t change the past like that. I think at that point the timeline in TP is restored. (I know one big complaint from fans is that the show has basically erased everything that came before. I personally don’t think so. I think the timeline corrected itself when Cooper couldn’t reach his destination with Laura.


Yes.
baxter
Posts: 432
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2016 4:12 pm

Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby baxter » Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:15 pm

A few days on, I'm (like many) still powerfully affected by the finale. It has restored the sense of unease in rewatching Twin Peaks which I had after my first viewing (i.e. knowing that a bleak ending was there). This was erased when S3 was announced, but of course it has merely replaced it with another bleak ending!

The thing is, plot wise, I'm not sure that the ending is bleak. There are three popular readings that I don't share:

1) It was a dream/Twin Peaks is a dream. I don't buy this for a second.

2) Cooper ultimately failed due to his hero complex/hubris/whatever. I don't think this is true either. I think he is simply on the next part of his job, which we now know is to track down the evil that is Judy. That's why he went on to save Laura (Laura is some sort of creation of the Fireman that needs to be utilised in the fight against Judy), and that's also why he crosses into the alternate reality, to continue his work on the Blue Rose task force. To me, he is basically just diligently following orders (with some bravery).

3) The ending is about some eternal failure of Cooper, with him trapped in a nightmare. I don't buy that for a second either. I think its the next part of the story which is given a set up, and stopped at a dramatic point to motivate a fourth season. The somewhat genius move is that this is a very ambiguous and somewhat inscrutable finale, whereas the S2 finale was straightforward (but no less moving).

Here's what I like: the readings of everyone are totally consistent with what we saw, and which one we buy into is based on our hopes/desires and personality.

I think my strong sadness at the finale is motivated by that final shot (with ominous music) of Cooper looking terrified in the lodge. Is that the same shot that we have always been shown of Laura talking to him, or a new one?

I've realised that a big part of me wanted to have sunny, happy Cooper restored to the real world at the end of Twin Peaks, and maybe my sadness at the finale is simply that this is never going to happen even with a season 4. The story is now much bigger, and also Cooper intriguingly said that "we are going home" when he was taking Laura to the White Lodge, which indicates that that is now his natural home.
douglasb
Posts: 241
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 1:51 pm
Location: Exiled in England
Contact:

Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby douglasb » Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:57 pm

Cooper simply being on the next stage of his quest - how long do people think he has? It took 25 years for him to be allowed to take one step forward (and one step back).
baxter
Posts: 432
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2016 4:12 pm

Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby baxter » Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:06 am

I don't think he was idle for 25 years. My inference is that he was learning/plotting/liasing with the spirits in that time.
Cipher
Posts: 250
Joined: Thu May 04, 2017 7:20 pm

Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Cipher » Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:15 am

douglasb wrote:Cooper simply being on the next stage of his quest - how long do people think he has? It took 25 years for him to be allowed to take one step forward (and one step back).

Cooper's going to be stuck on that journey until he accepts every part of himself/crosses through oblivion.

Might take a while longer, but Richard, as unmooring as he is, is at least some kind of first step.
User avatar
Pyaan123
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:22 am

Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Pyaan123 » Thu Sep 07, 2017 3:52 am

They should have ended the finale with the song from Cocteau Twins: Know who you are at every age.

That captures the final realization of Cooper.

I'm not real, I deny. I won't heal unless I cry. I can't grief so I won't grow. I won't heal 'till I let it go.
It sounds like this: tsk tsk ks
User avatar
Ragnell
Posts: 338
Joined: Tue May 09, 2017 5:50 am

Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Ragnell » Thu Sep 07, 2017 3:52 am

powerleftist wrote:You people are thinking more about this show than Lynch himself in all his life. The person who cares less about how all of this makes sense or ties together is the man himself. The game is over.


No, the game is on. Forever. Lynch and Frost know this fandom. Back in the day they cliffhangered everything to see if they could force another season or in the giddy silliness of just seeing how much they could leave ubresolved but when they started writing this they'd seen it resulted in two decades of speculation, hunting for clues and discussion. A two year trend had become a 25 year phenomenon. How do you top THAT? With a single summer wrapping everything up, explaining everything, and letting the fandom discussions die down to trivialities, critiques and fix-it fanfics?

Hell baby gawddamned no!

You give everyone some answers that just raise more questions, points in the story that could be intentional and could be mistakes, leave some soapy plotlines unresolved and give us an ending that has us not only arguing over the reality of the show but also whether its a happy, tragic, or cliffhanger ending.

This way, you ensure we all get the same enjoyment we've had for the last 25 years of picking the series apart and debating it.

And that is why I was so happy at the end. Because its clear that's what they did and that is a GIFT to the core fandom of Twin Peaks, those of us who love a good mystery. The mystery continues forever. The Modern Goddess of Mystery, Laura Palmer, sits in her throne and presides over a discussion of whether she was wrapped in plastic or not, and if she should have been. This is amazing and wonderful and proves they were paying attention to us all along.
BHell
Posts: 37
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2017 5:43 pm

Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby BHell » Thu Sep 07, 2017 4:04 am

Cipher wrote:
douglasb wrote:Cooper simply being on the next stage of his quest - how long do people think he has? It took 25 years for him to be allowed to take one step forward (and one step back).

Cooper's going to be stuck on that journey until he accepts every part of himself/crosses through oblivion.

Might take a while longer, but Richard, as unmooring as he is, is at least some kind of first step.


I don't think at this point it's about Dale Cooper anymore - if it ever was. His telos was first and foremost to find (and save) Laura. And with "Carrie" awakening, she has been found. That could be what the season's title alludes to: The return of Laura Palmer.

It might not even be about Laura anymore - her character arc has come to full closure with this: We now have a Laura that finds salvation in death (FWWM), one that is alive and ready to "fight" Judy (Part 18), one who died to set all events in motion (season 1), the flawed character / real person (FWWM, Secret Diary) and the idealized image that never actually existed outside of the prom-queen-photo.

That is what most decisively speaks against another continuation: Lynch/Frost must feel that her storyline is done.

What remains to be achieved is to somehow get Judy (or whatever is possessing her) out of Sarah - or even better: out of Twin Peaks. Contrary to the reddit-theory posted here earlier, I do not believe that has happened yet. But the process of doing so could be as easy as Dale taking Laura home to Sarah. Which from where we are now, probably is quite difficult.
Cipher
Posts: 250
Joined: Thu May 04, 2017 7:20 pm

Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Cipher » Thu Sep 07, 2017 4:43 am

I agree that it was all about Laura and her story is sufficiently done. Even Cooper is an extension of Laura. I believe wholly that the heart of Twin Peaks came into being with Fire Walk With Me.

I disagree, I think, that Judy needs to be removed from Sarah. I think assuming that she does is Cooper's fatal flaw. There will always be cosmic evil; one of the forms it found was a mother complicit in the abuse of her daughter, languishing in rage and guilt. That's everything, especially if this is Laura's story. There's coping, there's living with, there's loving the fractured self it engenders, but there needn't necessarily be defeating, as Cooper naively assumes. Maybe if Laura brings her compassion to Sarah, Judy can leave -- but be defeated or destroyed, probably not.

Of course that's only one reading and, yes, as posted above, the mystery continues forever.
BHell
Posts: 37
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2017 5:43 pm

Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby BHell » Thu Sep 07, 2017 5:17 am

Cipher wrote:I disagree, I think, that Judy needs to be removed from Sarah. I think assuming that she does is Cooper's fatal flaw. There will always be cosmic evil; one of the forms it found was a mother complicit in the abuse of her daughter, languishing in rage and guilt. That's everything, especially if this is Laura's story. There's coping, there's living with, there's loving the fractured self it engenders, but there needn't necessarily be defeating, as Cooper naively assumes. Maybe if Laura brings her compassion to Sarah, Judy can leave -- but be defeated or destroyed, probably not.


Oh, but I think we're mostly on the same page here: Destroying Judy is off the table. But letting her reign over Twin Peaks unopposed would be a bit unsatisfactory. And there, Cooper's interests align with the Fireman's. Whether this consistent striving for good is a flaw or a virtue (or both), it's one every more or less moral person can at least sympathize with.

On another note: Since it seems uncontroversial that Judy (universal evil) can't be destroyed, wouldn't it be somewhat foolish to assume Bob (individual evil, "the evil that men do") has been permanently dealt with? Sure, he might be gone for now, but ...
User avatar
Pyaan123
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:22 am

Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Pyaan123 » Thu Sep 07, 2017 5:42 am

Some really great theories here!
It sounds like this: tsk tsk ks
User avatar
Novalis
Posts: 431
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:18 pm

Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Novalis » Thu Sep 07, 2017 5:42 am

In the final few scenes of this part, there is a profile shot of Cooper/Richard where he starts to learn forward slowly, at quite a severe angle. Am I the only one who thought, momentarily, that he was going to do the low bow/float that Leland does in the red room from FWWM?

Really caught me off my guard. Was absolutely certain -- for the tiniest moment -- this is where it was headed. Then, no.
As a matter of fact, 'Chalfont' was the name of the people that rented this space before. Two Chalfonts. Weird, huh?
lotjx2
Posts: 82
Joined: Mon May 22, 2017 12:13 pm

Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby lotjx2 » Thu Sep 07, 2017 5:56 am

Bob is destroyed, because he has and will always be a henchmen. There is no need to bring him back. I will say I am a bit disappointed in this ending, because its basically the entire season of Flash this year. Flash fucks up the timeline and now he has to fix it. Here, Cooper fucks up the timeline, but we ran out of episodes to fix it. 18 hours of television and the end comes, because we ran out of time. Weak.
User avatar
Firewalkwithme91
Posts: 80
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:20 pm

Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Firewalkwithme91 » Thu Sep 07, 2017 5:59 am

Sorry if it has been mentioned before but it´s slippery in here: What do we make of women screaming leading to a total powerout? In episode 15 Janey-E and Ruby screamed and we immediately cut to black. The same thing obviously happens in the very end of the show when Laura screams.
vicksvapor77
Posts: 541
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:51 pm

Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby vicksvapor77 » Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:42 am

On rewatch, I noticed some very interesting editing choices for the end of parts 17 and 18.

In Part 17, we see Cooper trying to change the past with Laura, then we see Sarah freaking out and trying to destroy her photo and then we see Laura disappear from Cooper's grasp and scream with Julee Cruise's song playing over the end credits.

Part 18 opens with the new Dougie tulpa being created and reuniting with Janey-E and Sonny Jim. We then have what I believe to be simple rollback (soaps do this to sort of "recap" the last scene of the previous episode when starting the next episode) to the moment from the end of 17 with Cooper losing Laura in the woods and then he goes into the Red Room.

Some have speculated that they think Cooper loses Laura twice but I think it's just simple rollback of footage (it's definitely not an alternate take). I think it's to show the multiple events happening at once in the timeline, like Sarah smashing the picture and Dougie's reunion with his family (which is daytime, so perhaps earlier that day?), happen BEFORE Cooper loses Laura in the woods.

Now, we don't conclusively see our normal timeline ever again after this moment, which is what makes me very afraid that our current timeline where Laura dies was erased. What do you guys think about this? For those that absolutely don't think the original timeline of her dying was erased, how do you reconcile the conscious editing choice to not show "our timeline" again after Cooper loses Laura in the woods? I would definitely agree that moment and the ensuing ones in the Red Room seem to indicate he failed in saving her from her original murder but then what? We don't see our timeline "revert to normal" again, with her body showing up back on the shore or showing her meeting Ronette, Leo and Jacques so it's definitely suspicious. Certainly if she just fails to exist in that timeline from that moment (she literally disappears from the woods) things in that timeline would be altered for everyone? Clearly her soul can be displaced elsewhere, as she was already in the Red Room after her death. Why not go to another timeline/dimension as Carrie? But that doesn't reconcile us never seeing "our timeline" again after that moment or that she literally disappears from Cooper's grasp, which is obviously different than the original timeline.

Return to “Parts Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests