Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Discussion of each of the 18 parts of Twin Peaks the Return

Moderators: Annie, BookhouseBoyBob, Ross, Jerry Horne, Brad D

Manwith
Posts: 172
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:04 pm

Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Manwith » Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:34 am

docLEXfisti wrote:Wonderful theory, I will stick with that."


There's a lot about that theory I disagree with. I agree with what someone said in the comments:

"One is that the noise in the White Lodge in the beginning is more likely the sound of Judy, not the sound of the White Lodge. Likewise, it’s probably Judy who plucks Laura up in 1989. My suspicion is that The White Lodge didn’t create the Odessa reality, but knew that it was where Laura would “land”."



Also there's no indication people in Odessa aren't real. Cooper's callous treatment of them is more because he's starting to act more like Mr. C. It has nothing to do with him thinking the people there aren't real.

There's also no indication Laura will explode like an atom bomb to stop Judy. That's just something the blogger made up.
claaa7
Posts: 715
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2014 2:47 am

Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby claaa7 » Fri Sep 08, 2017 6:51 am

Cooperscoffeecup wrote:I read it somewhere since the final part that the reason that Ashley Judds character came about was because of the Sherilynn drama when she missed the initial filming. Has anyone heard that? Interesting if the original intention was to have Audrey working at the Great Northern alongside Ben.


never heard that.. it wouldn't seem consistant with the other scenes with Audrey but who knows. imagine if Audrey had all of Ashley Judd's scenes (except her home scene with sick husband) AS WELL as her scenes with Charlie and then the wake up reveal. that would've been even more of a mindfuck
djsunyc
Posts: 204
Joined: Sun May 21, 2017 4:36 pm

Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby djsunyc » Fri Sep 08, 2017 6:53 am

so i finally re-watched 17/18 again.

i absolutely loved it. are there things to criticize - sure. but overall, i felt it was fantastic. where do you ever get to watch tv like this?

so many great posts this thread.

my quick thoughts:

1. everything in season 1/2/fwwm really happened.
2. the real world of twin peaks story stopped the minute coop saw naido.

this is where it can go many ways. i think:

3. coop was transported to a different reality/dimension where he was able to stop laura's murder but
4. the mother is still alive and had the power to pull laura back into another "place" so the murder was prevented in that world but laura wasn't saved
5. driving into 430 transported coop into another reality/dimension where laura was sent to as well

i do not believe this is time travel. i believe it's alternate realities/dimensions.

whatever the case, if they do a season 4, i think in this new reality, very few of the original characters will be there. lynch has opened up the possibilities of a brand new group of characters (maybe the roadhouse druggie crew?).
djsunyc
Posts: 204
Joined: Sun May 21, 2017 4:36 pm

Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby djsunyc » Fri Sep 08, 2017 6:54 am

claaa7 wrote:
Cooperscoffeecup wrote:I read it somewhere since the final part that the reason that Ashley Judds character came about was because of the Sherilynn drama when she missed the initial filming. Has anyone heard that? Interesting if the original intention was to have Audrey working at the Great Northern alongside Ben.


never heard that.. it wouldn't seem consistant with the other scenes with Audrey but who knows. imagine if Audrey had all of Ashley Judd's scenes (except her home scene with sick husband) AS WELL as her scenes with Charlie and then the wake up reveal. that would've been even more of a mindfuck


they styled ashley to look alot like a young sherilynn too.
User avatar
zeronumber
Posts: 105
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 7:42 pm

Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby zeronumber » Fri Sep 08, 2017 7:31 am

No season 4?

I hope the French pony up and powers that be produce another Feature, to be Titled:

"Drink Deep and Descend"

Sent from my NEC-NE-201A1A using Tapatalk
User avatar
docLEXfisti
Posts: 67
Joined: Tue May 23, 2017 9:59 am

Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby docLEXfisti » Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:43 am

I don't need a Season 4.

I want a Season 4.
User avatar
Ragnell
Posts: 338
Joined: Tue May 09, 2017 5:50 am

Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Ragnell » Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:12 am

Manwith wrote:
docLEXfisti wrote:Wonderful theory, I will stick with that."


There's a lot about that theory I disagree with. I agree with what someone said in the comments:

"One is that the noise in the White Lodge in the beginning is more likely the sound of Judy, not the sound of the White Lodge. Likewise, it’s probably Judy who plucks Laura up in 1989. My suspicion is that The White Lodge didn’t create the Odessa reality, but knew that it was where Laura would “land”."



Also there's no indication people in Odessa aren't real. Cooper's callous treatment of them is more because he's starting to act more like Mr. C. It has nothing to do with him thinking the people there aren't real.

There's also no indication Laura will explode like an atom bomb to stop Judy. That's just something the blogger made up.


Yeah, I'm not feeling this theory either. I'm with him on some things like Mr. C wasn't the main villain, and Odessa is a "trap-world" rather than reality or an alternate timeline, but I don't buy that the White Lodge set up the trap nor his reading of Cooper's behavior.
DreadDub
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 10:14 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA

Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby DreadDub » Fri Sep 08, 2017 12:37 pm

Anybody find the last shot of The Return strange? Check out the below image. Sorry for the low picture quality (had to play with file size, remove color to make attachment size here at work to be able to upload). On viewing, I thought the image of Cooper was different in some way as it faded out. Looks like the color saturation was played with in some way to produce a white image on the forehead/nose of Cooper...a mushroom cloud perhaps (Cooper's mind being blown)? What about a white mask and beak?

If you get the chance, re-watch in slow motion and you will see the color change more prevalent than in this single image posted here. Thanks for humoring me.

Crackpot I know by the way, probably nothing there but it did make me rewind and forward the image in slow motion frame by frame for the last few minutes of the night...thanks Lynch...you made me this way. Guess we will have another 25 years to make a frame by frame analysis of the 18 hours of new material. :lol:
Attachments
Cooper2.jpg
Cooper2.jpg (671.76 KiB) Viewed 3846 times
sugarhigh
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2014 7:44 pm

Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby sugarhigh » Fri Sep 08, 2017 12:38 pm

It was about the bunny?
Bunny.jpg
Bunny.jpg (50.32 KiB) Viewed 3846 times
User avatar
John Justice Wheeler
Posts: 108
Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2015 2:58 pm

Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby John Justice Wheeler » Fri Sep 08, 2017 1:21 pm

A couple of other excellent readings/theories that may or may not have already been posted here.
User avatar
Ragnell
Posts: 338
Joined: Tue May 09, 2017 5:50 am

Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Ragnell » Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:20 pm

DreadDub wrote:Anybody find the last shot of The Return strange? Check out the below image. Sorry for the low picture quality (had to play with file size, remove color to make attachment size here at work to be able to upload). On viewing, I thought the image of Cooper was different in some way as it faded out. Looks like the color saturation was played with in some way to produce a white image on the forehead/nose of Cooper...a mushroom cloud perhaps (Cooper's mind being blown)? What about a white mask and beak?

If you get the chance, re-watch in slow motion and you will see the color change more prevalent than in this single image posted here. Thanks for humoring me.

Crackpot I know by the way, probably nothing there but it did make me rewind and forward the image in slow motion frame by frame for the last few minutes of the night...thanks Lynch...you made me this way. Guess we will have another 25 years to make a frame by frame analysis of the 18 hours of new material. :lol:


I got the impression that each time we saw Laura whispering into Coop's ear, he had a different reaction. We saw it at the end, in Part 2, and at the beginning of Part 18. I think each of them were different shots, but that's what gave the impression of a cycle, like he was trying to find her and each time starts with her telling him something, but each time its either a different message or something with a different meaning after the last cycle.

Or maybe... each time ENDS with her telling him a secret, and begins with Leland telling him to find her.

Which is interesting, if you take into account that the timeline seems to be fluctuating even before the end of Part 17.

If Coop's intention was to prevent her death by taking her to the White Lodge... then Laura would have still disappeared that night, and much of the original series and FWWM would still be in effect. Cooper would still be called to track down the missing girl, and possibly deal with Ronnette's death or kidnapping. In which case, one of the added events of the new timeline would be Leland Palmer telling him "Find Laura." at the beginning of this. Laura would still whisper to him in the dream (which for her occurred before her disappearance) in the red room. He would still meet the Arm, in one form or another, and be given clues. Leland's appearance in TPTR Part 2 may have been the first sign of the revised timeline.

A lot of theories are taking for granted that Laura HAD to die, but also argue that Cooper can't save her from her trauma by saving her from her death and that's where he's wrong. But Cooper knows this, he knows better than anyone else the pain started at 12, he's the one who investigated it. He's not trying to save her from her past, he's trying to make sure she survives. And a disappearance would leave the original mystery intact. Investigating that would still uncover the diary, still uncover her secret life, still open the safety deposit box, still find the missing pages... Still uncover BOB and Leland's abuse of Laura.

It's also worth noting... Cooper considered Leland a victim. He told Maj. Briggs this. We're also taking for granted he wants Laura to destroy Judy but really... if Judy is a goddess, if she's the dark side of Babalon, she probably can't be destroyed. But perhaps she can be banished from the world.

Suppose Judy gets into the world in TPTR Part 1, through the glass box, when Sam and Tracey summon her through sex in front of a device built by Doppelcoop's faction. Then Sarah's scene at the end of Part 2 would depict her early in her possession.

Maybe Cooper's "two birds with one stone" is to save both Laura and Sarah, by taking Laura to safety for 25 years and then showing her to Sarah, hopefully pulling a Luke Skywalker and allowing Sarah the strength to throw off Judy's possession and send the goddess back to the other dimension. This couldn't be done with Leland, because the years of incest rotted the father-daughter relationship, but if Judy's possession is so recent then the mother-daughter bond is still intact. (Maybe reflected in how Laura's picture can't be destroyed in Part 18, but back in the first season Leland covered it with blood.)

If that's the case, then he failed when she was taken from him before reaching the White Lodge. And he re-entered the Lodge to search for her. When they did find her, it was in this weird dream-trap realm that Cooper needed to enter by traveling 430 miles and having ritual sex. And his miscalculation would have been forgetting he's in a dream-realm and that they have to leave it to save Sarah.
PDCampbell
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu May 11, 2017 6:06 pm

Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby PDCampbell » Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:33 pm

Ragnell wrote:Yeah, I'm not feeling this theory either. I'm with him on some things like Mr. C wasn't the main villain, and Odessa is a "trap-world" rather than reality or an alternate timeline, but I don't buy that the White Lodge set up the trap nor his reading of Cooper's behavior.


Count me in on this. I've read the theory twice now and it just doesn't mesh for me. I still don't believe that Judy is something that can destroyed or defeated; Judy is necessary for some kind of cosmic balance- a Black Lodge to the White Lodge. Any theory that posits that Judy is somehow annihilated at the end doesn't work for me, especially considering the coda scene, the slo-mo replay of Laura whispering to Cooper.

Here's something I'm trying to untangle: In Andy's vision at the White Lodge, he is shown the #6 pole three times in succession: from FWWM, from the hit-and-run in Part 6, and finally the pole outside of Carrie's house in Odessa- note the same picket fence background. This obviously indicates that the Fireman was at least aware of the 430/Odessaverse, if not having a hand in its creation. So why show Andy? And does that mean the very first scene btw Cooper and the Fireman came before Andy's vision or after?
User avatar
Novalis
Posts: 431
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:18 pm

Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Novalis » Fri Sep 08, 2017 3:59 pm

Still not got around to writing up anything substantial about part 17 and this one.

I've started rewatching from S1 of the original TP so I've got a long enough run-up to really think about it. I don't like simply dumping feelings on the page or putting things out into the world until I'm happy with what I'm saying and that it all fits in a broader context. Call it overcooking the goose or being pedantic or whatever, I don't care. :lol:

Meanwhile...
As a matter of fact, 'Chalfont' was the name of the people that rented this space before. Two Chalfonts. Weird, huh?
User avatar
Deep Thought
Posts: 303
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2016 7:05 pm
Location: Florida

Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Deep Thought » Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:32 pm

John Justice Wheeler wrote:A couple of other excellent readings/theories that may or may not have already been posted here.


Your second link is right on. I just watched 17 and 18 in sync, and it is almost certainly intended to be watched this way. The quiet atmospheric music and the "Lynch/Frost" end-logo shown without sound at the end of episode 18 seemed clearly edited to allow Julie Cruz to wrap up The Return properly in the slightly longer episode 17. Goose bumps. The silenced end-logo is the sign of intent here, no question.

As a whole there are interesting parallels that match perfectly, like Mr. C going to the white lodge while Copper determines that he and Diane are at the correct location to cross over, and both transitioning between worlds at the same time. A quickie shot of evil black Bob orb aligned with the long take centered on the white orb street lamp at Cooper's motel is interesting. But the last sequence(s) including the FWWM footage, the Tremond/Palmer house and what follows will change your perspective, and the last 15 minutes are like nothing I've ever seen or could have imagined. Hopefully there will be some version online soon.
There's your roast beef and cheese.
User avatar
Mr. Reindeer
Posts: 2365
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:09 pm

Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Fri Sep 08, 2017 6:13 pm

I'm pretty sure the Audrey/Beverly thing was just a random thinking-out-loud post by someone on the board earlier today; it didn't purport to be behind-the-scenes intel. Anyway, I don't see it. Much of that arc was about Ben trying to be a good guy and fighting the urge to try to seduce her. If you slot Audrey in...well, there are some interesting resonances with Episodes 7 and 8 of the original show (which were never properly given closure)...but uhhhhh, I'll pass.

Return to “Parts Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests