Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Discussion of each of the 18 parts of Twin Peaks the Return

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Rik Renault
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Rik Renault » Sun Sep 17, 2017 4:55 pm

125 pages and I am up to speed. Maybe I've missed the boat now these Part discussions have been moved, but I'll plough ahead anyway.

The post of this thread, in my opinion, has been criminally overlooked. The sound that The Fireman tells Cooper (and us) to pay attention to is Laura's diary unlocking!!! The same sound that is repeated as Laura disappears from Cooper's grasp in the woods. Add to this that Laura the next time we see her is *Carrie Page* and I'm getting a meta-textual vibe that the Odessa universe is somehow inside Laura's diary, using the same logic when Laura goes inside the painting given to her by Mrs Chalfont.

The Return has had a complicated relationship with Chekhov's Gun (read: it wants nothing to do with it, it's blocked its number and its emails go straight to junk), but I think it's pertinent that this season made very clear that there was still one page missing from the diary.

At the moment, I'm of an optimistic view of the ending (despite some great, but bleak, interpretations by Gum and Needleman) though this may well just be some mental gymnastics to come to terms with an unsettling end for characters I've come to love.

The final world we inhabit, perhaps by necessity, doesn't seem fully fleshed out to me. The people in the diner don't seem real or that they have lived entire lives that 'Richard' is intruding upon. They seem like obstacles placed to obfuscate Cooper and deviate him from his mission. I know it's been discussed but I really liked the chairs placed upside down on the table. It's something which in a realistic context would mean nothing other than a means to make cleaning easier; but added to other Lynchian quirks makes me explore other Lodge-style ideas.

I loved the idea brought up that the Odessa world is somehow Laura's dream that Coop has entered via sex magick. I still find her facial expressions on the steps of the Palmer house the most attention-drawing aspect of that scene. Is she entranced, dreaming, or in some kind of Dougie state?

It took 100+ pages but somebody (I think Novalis?) finally mentioned Battleship Potemkin. I can't hear Odessa without recalling the Odessa Steps Sequence in my mind. I'm clutching at straws to find parallels, but the scene is revered for the way it revolutionised editing and there is 0% chance that Lynch isn't aware of this. Did we conclude whether the final scene of Laura whispering into Coop's (?) ear is a different take, or the same shot which we infer new meaning based on that which precedes it?

One final thought on the closing shot: another poster pointed out the odd colouration in Coop's face. The whole shot seemed to have the colour at least partly removed to me, possibly alluding to the fact that Coop and Laura both successfully made it to the White Lodge, which we are accustomed to seeing in black and white? The score to the closing credits is quite haunting, but I've had similar responses to many of the scores for the scenes in the White Lodge. It certainly isn't a place I'd like to be spending eternity in.

Also countering this optimistic reading is that Cooper is clearly horrified by whatever realisation Laura's words brings on. Maybe we can tie this back into TheGum's Buddhist interpretation and Cooper's understanding and acceptance of the actions of this Doppelganger is necessary for his entry to the WL?

What a finale.

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claaa7
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby claaa7 » Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:07 pm

Rhodes wrote:Two questions:

1. Am I right that we never found out who was with Cooper on the NY-photo?
2. Was the scene with Leo new footage or was it shown in the original show or FWWM?


1. that's right, we never found out who it was and in the grand scheme of things i don't think it matters that much. the point of the scene seems to me to be of showing us that Mister C was behind the operation with the Box experiment, as that photo was found on one of the very earliest drives of data.

2. the scene with Leo, Jacques and Ronette waiting for Laura is from FWWM.. some of it might have been alternative shots but it's basically the exact same scene except Laura never arrives in this version.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby claaa7 » Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:25 pm

Rik Renault wrote:125 pages and I am up to speed. Maybe I've missed the boat now these Part discussions have been moved, but I'll plough ahead anyway.

The post of this thread, in my opinion, has been criminally overlooked. The sound that The Fireman tells Cooper (and us) to pay attention to is Laura's diary unlocking!!! The same sound that is repeated as Laura disappears from Cooper's grasp in the woods. Add to this that Laura the next time we see her is *Carrie Page* and I'm getting a meta-textual vibe that the Odessa universe is somehow inside Laura's diary, using the same logic when Laura goes inside the painting given to her by Mrs Chalfont.

The Return has had a complicated relationship with Chekhov's Gun (read: it wants nothing to do with it, it's blocked its number and its emails go straight to junk), but I think it's pertinent that this season made very clear that there was still one page missing from the diary.

At the moment, I'm of an optimistic view of the ending (despite some great, but bleak, interpretations by Gum and Needleman) though this may well just be some mental gymnastics to come to terms with an unsettling end for characters I've come to love.

The final world we inhabit, perhaps by necessity, doesn't seem fully fleshed out to me. The people in the diner don't seem real or that they have lived entire lives that 'Richard' is intruding upon. They seem like obstacles placed to obfuscate Cooper and deviate him from his mission. I know it's been discussed but I really liked the chairs placed upside down on the table. It's something which in a realistic context would mean nothing other than a means to make cleaning easier; but added to other Lynchian quirks makes me explore other Lodge-style ideas.

I loved the idea brought up that the Odessa world is somehow Laura's dream that Coop has entered via sex magick. I still find her facial expressions on the steps of the Palmer house the most attention-drawing aspect of that scene. Is she entranced, dreaming, or in some kind of Dougie state?

It took 100+ pages but somebody (I think Novalis?) finally mentioned Battleship Potemkin. I can't hear Odessa without recalling the Odessa Steps Sequence in my mind. I'm clutching at straws to find parallels, but the scene is revered for the way it revolutionised editing and there is 0% chance that Lynch isn't aware of this. Did we conclude whether the final scene of Laura whispering into Coop's (?) ear is a different take, or the same shot which we infer new meaning based on that which precedes it?

One final thought on the closing shot: another poster pointed out the odd colouration in Coop's face. The whole shot seemed to have the colour at least partly removed to me, possibly alluding to the fact that Coop and Laura both successfully made it to the White Lodge, which we are accustomed to seeing in black and white? The score to the closing credits is quite haunting, but I've had similar responses to many of the scores for the scenes in the White Lodge. It certainly isn't a place I'd like to be spending eternity in.

Also countering this optimistic reading is that Cooper is clearly horrified by whatever realisation Laura's words brings on. Maybe we can tie this back into TheGum's Buddhist interpretation and Cooper's understanding and acceptance of the actions of this Doppelganger is necessary for his entry to the WL?

What a finale.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk


that's an interesting thought that it's the lock of Laura's diary unsnapping that we are hearing but i'm not entirely convinced that is the case.. did you compare it to the audio of the original show?

however, i am with you that it was not for nothing that Lynch explicitly shows us a scene with Hawk letting us know that there is still one page missing of Laura's secret diary. i believe it's a very important scene and i'm also thinking the name Carrie Page might be linked to that - as in the missing Page being Carrie/Laura herself. we see her being ripped away from time in the Lodges in ep. 2 after whispering her secret to Cooper. we later learn that it is his actions in ep. 17 that leads to this, hence the constant question of it being future or past which by now starts making more sense imo.

as i've rewatched the series in a more convoluted time space i have started seeing the ending in a more optimistic tone as well.. with Major Briggs and The Fireman's actions, Cooper's conversation with The Giant in the very first scene and everything Cooper does and say at the Sherrif's station and then crossing over with Diane, etc. it really feels like he's following the right path with a determined mind. i agree with you that the world that Cooper/Richard wakes up in at the different motel feels very artificial and the characters inhabiting it feel like obstacles. and later we learn that the Chalfonts/Tremond is playing a major part in this... in ep. 9 Donna walked into an apartment and found herself in some kind of pocket dimension inhabited by the Tremonds as we later learn that apartment was rented and lived in by a different woman who seemed much more of our "regular" world. the Odessa world seems to be the same kind of alternative zone which co-exists with our world yet different physics and rules applies. Laura has been placed here where she forgot all about her real purpose as a shining beam of light.. despite all her problems and troubled soul, just like "Dougie" everybody who came in contact with Laura in the original Twin Peaks was left with a profound impression of her and she helped change many lifes for the better.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Xavi » Mon Sep 18, 2017 2:20 am

Rik Renault
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Rik Renault » Mon Sep 18, 2017 3:06 am

Xavi wrote:"What year is this?"

Image

from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odessa,_Texas



Great catch!
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David Locke
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby David Locke » Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:43 am

claaa7 wrote:2. the scene with Leo, Jacques and Ronette waiting for Laura is from FWWM.. some of it might have been alternative shots but it's basically the exact same scene except Laura never arrives in this version.

So was all of the old footage used in Part 17 from the Pilot or FWWM as we know them? It seems like it but I thought I read something about the FWWM part having alternate angles or even a moment or two that was new possibly?
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Jerry Horne » Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:59 am

Screen Shot 2017-09-18 at 10.00.32 AM.png
Screen Shot 2017-09-18 at 10.00.32 AM.png (67.59 KiB) Viewed 521 times


In addition to using sex magic to allow Cooper to enter Carrie/Laura's dream space, I'm now wondering if two birds one stone is in fact a reference to The Philosopher's stone.

Screen Shot 2017-09-18 at 10.01.39 AM.png
Screen Shot 2017-09-18 at 10.01.39 AM.png (27.54 KiB) Viewed 519 times


I like the above as we see Diane's hair in these two colors, white and red.

Two birds, one stone. Was this instruction from the Fireman tied into Cooper and Diane or maybe Cooper and Carrie?

Alchemy is all over the place in Twin Peaks but are there any clear answers?
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby vicksvapor77 » Mon Sep 18, 2017 10:12 am

David Locke wrote:
claaa7 wrote:2. the scene with Leo, Jacques and Ronette waiting for Laura is from FWWM.. some of it might have been alternative shots but it's basically the exact same scene except Laura never arrives in this version.

So was all of the old footage used in Part 17 from the Pilot or FWWM as we know them? It seems like it but I thought I read something about the FWWM part having alternate angles or even a moment or two that was new possibly?


None of the shots in part 18 appear in the film, though I haven't scoured the Missing Pieces. I don't think these scenes appear as extensions in the Missing Pieces from what I remember, though.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Jerry Horne » Mon Sep 18, 2017 10:14 am

Xavi wrote:"What year is this?"

Image

from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odessa,_Texas


This is fantastic. Of course they update it every 10 years so who knows.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Strawberry » Mon Sep 18, 2017 11:29 am

Xavi wrote:"What year is this?"

Image

from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odessa,_Texas

This would be an excellent indication of the year were it not for the fact that these signs are only updated about once every ten years. I was able to track down this particular sign (it's one of those essentially worthless activities that I get a kick out of). The sign is located at 5621 Andrews Highway (Interstate 385). As of March 2016 it still displays a population of 99,940.

5621 Andrews Highway, Odessa TX.jpg
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Not taking any calls.
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BigEd
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby BigEd » Mon Sep 18, 2017 10:56 pm

That Odessa sign is a great catch! Unfortunately, it is highly likely that it was shown only to tell us that we were in Odessa, and not to answer Coop's question. Why did he ask it? I have absolutely no clue.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Xavi » Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:59 am

Based on pure logic the Odessa City sign reveals that Cooper/Richard "crossed over" to our present reality. This present must be somewhere between 2010 and 2015. For me this is precise enough. Furthermore Cooper's/Richard's car, a Lincoln Continental also confirms this train of thoughts.

"Is it future, or is it past?" No longer needs an answer. It is now, or if you want it more accurately it was very recently in the past.


Okay? This brings me to the biggest of mysteries in TP:TR.

Why, when and how did Agent Cooper get to the Giant's (as shown in part one) ?

Image


Notice that his FBI pin is missing in that scene!
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby -Mr. Jackpots- » Tue Sep 19, 2017 3:07 am

Xavi wrote:Why, when and how did Agent Cooper get to the Giant's (as shown in part one) ?


...just before he woke up in the hospital?
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Saturn's child » Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:01 pm

OK, I'm a bit tipsy & haven't really thought this through, BUT: what if part 18 chronologically follows 17 from Laura's perspective? She is still on her way to being killed, but she has disassociated (via the innermost [Carrie] Page of her diary) into a world where her abuse is not happening? A world where she buried the memory of Bobby killing a guy (the guy on her couch)? But then she arrives at her house to find another family living there -- black lodge denizens (Tremonds/Chalfonts) in the Palmer house seem to mirror BOB's presence in Leland. Laura realises this, realises it is her father killing her, & then screams.

Reading this back, there's not much meat on it, but I'll post it anyway, yolo, &c.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Saturn's child » Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:04 pm

-Mr. Jackpots- wrote:
Xavi wrote:Why, when and how did Agent Cooper get to the Giant's (as shown in part one) ?


...just before he woke up in the hospital?


This works for me!

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