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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Posted: Thu May 02, 2019 6:33 pm
by Mr. Reindeer
LateReg wrote:
Rainwater wrote:
TwinsPeak wrote:Also does anyone think using the real owners of the house means anything to the story?

I don't think so. I think Lynch cast her because he thought she'd be right for it when he met her, that's all. And she was, wasn't she?


There has been a lot of speculation regarding her purpose, and it is a major part of many theories that have to do with The Return...a major part of mine, at least. That it dives into the "real" world at the end, and increasingly throughout. It's one of the many layers, for sure, that ties in to the notion of who is dreaming, the different levels of reality, the idea of the show being explicitly self-referenced as a show throughout, of Cooper possibly crossing over into the "real" world at the end - a world that has possibly forgotten about Twin Peaks, etc. There's Monica Bellucci as herself, "Audrey's Dance" being referred to by its name on the soundtrack, Eddie Vedder being referred to by his birth name, and plenty more "real" references increasingly scattered throughout. So yes, I think there's a lot of purpose there.


Not to mention the real-world rationale for Gordon’s name being the thing that wakes Cooper up from his Dougie-slumber. That’s several layers of meta all on its own (referencing early TP’s penchant for using names from classic noir films and Lynch’s love for the film Sunset Boulevard; Gordon’s significance to Cooper paralleling Lynch’s relationship with Kyle; the fact that Sunset Boulevard is itself a very metatextual movie about making movies; famed director Cecil B. DeMille playing himself in the film saying the line, just as Lynch is essentially playing himself; the reference to the futility of engaging in nostalgia and trying to “get the band back together”; etc.).

Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Posted: Thu May 02, 2019 6:54 pm
by Mr. Reindeer
baxter wrote:One thing I forgot to make clearer: the Diane that Cooper meets when he exits the lodge (the second time we see it) is therefore the real Diane that has not been raped by a Doppelganger, since this never happened in that timeline. But she has a memory of it happening in another version of events, that is now receding.


While I like Mark’s books, I don’t really buy into the straightforward “parallel universe” thing he seems to be implying at the end of TFD. What happens in the show feels a lot more nuanced to me (and even what Mark seems to be getting at with the conflicting accounts of things that took place way before 1989 in TSHoTP, like Robert Jacoby’s multiple death dates, feels like’s getting at something more like the membrane between realities collapsing, as opposed to a simple story of two diverging universes). But in any event, even if we’re assuming Cooper’s actions cause a new parallel universe where Laura is missing as opposed to dead, I don’t get the sense that Cooper’s fate in the new reality is all that different. He still comes to Twin Peaks, and goes missing under pretty much the exact same circumstances as the original timeline. I don’t see any reason to believe the doppel doesn’t still rape Diane in that reality.

Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Posted: Fri May 03, 2019 12:30 am
by baxter
My reasoning is simply that there is no longer a doppelganger to rape her. Cooper destroyed it, then changed events. So when he goes into the lodge again, there is nothing to stop him leaving again, so he just walks out and meets the unraped Diane

Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Posted: Fri May 03, 2019 6:16 am
by TwinsPeak
LateReg wrote:
Rainwater wrote:
TwinsPeak wrote:Also does anyone think using the real owners of the house means anything to the story?

I don't think so. I think Lynch cast her because he thought she'd be right for it when he met her, that's all. And she was, wasn't she?


There has been a lot of speculation regarding her purpose, and it is a major part of many theories that have to do with The Return...a major part of mine, at least. That it dives into the "real" world at the end, and increasingly throughout. It's one of the many layers, for sure, that ties in to the notion of who is dreaming, the different levels of reality, the idea of the show being explicitly self-referenced as a show throughout, of Cooper possibly crossing over into the "real" world at the end - a world that has possibly forgotten about Twin Peaks, etc. There's Monica Bellucci as herself, "Audrey's Dance" being referred to by its name on the soundtrack, Eddie Vedder being referred to by his birth name, and plenty more "real" references increasingly scattered throughout. So yes, I think there's a lot of purpose there.



That's very similar to my thoughts as well. "Real World", any thoughts on the Chalfont's owning the house previous to the real owners?

Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Posted: Fri May 03, 2019 10:20 am
by LateReg
Mr. Reindeer wrote:
LateReg wrote:
Rainwater wrote:
Not to mention the real-world rationale for Gordon’s name being the thing that wakes Cooper up from his Dougie-slumber. That’s several layers of meta all on its own (referencing early TP’s penchant for using names from classic noir films and Lynch’s love for the film Sunset Boulevard; Gordon’s significance to Cooper paralleling Lynch’s relationship with Kyle; the fact that Sunset Boulevard is itself a very metatextual movie about making movies; famed director Cecil B. DeMille playing himself in the film saying the line, just as Lynch is essentially playing himself; the reference to the futility of engaging in nostalgia and trying to “get the band back together”; etc.).


Yep, that's a big one. Especially after episode 13, such instances increasingly mount, but as you said before that Sunset Blvd scene in particular is one of the most dauntingly complex layered moments in anything-history. Such instances really give you the uncomfortable and disorienting impression throughout of reality encroaching on the events of the series, directly tying into the themes and multiple realities and subjective POVs.

Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Posted: Fri May 03, 2019 10:32 am
by LateReg
TwinsPeak wrote:
LateReg wrote:There has been a lot of speculation regarding her purpose, and it is a major part of many theories that have to do with The Return...a major part of mine, at least. That it dives into the "real" world at the end, and increasingly throughout. It's one of the many layers, for sure, that ties in to the notion of who is dreaming, the different levels of reality, the idea of the show being explicitly self-referenced as a show throughout, of Cooper possibly crossing over into the "real" world at the end - a world that has possibly forgotten about Twin Peaks, etc. There's Monica Bellucci as herself, "Audrey's Dance" being referred to by its name on the soundtrack, Eddie Vedder being referred to by his birth name, and plenty more "real" references increasingly scattered throughout. So yes, I think there's a lot of purpose there.



That's very similar to my thoughts as well. "Real World", any thoughts on the Chalfont's owning the house previous to the real owners?


Perhaps it is the ultimate demonstration of the intersection of realities, and the disorientation of such intersection. That could apply to levels of dream and "reality," film and filmmaking, etc. The ultimate representation of being caught between two worlds. Not only that, but the ultimate statement on how reality is never this natural thing, but is controlled by forces beyond our comprehension. It certainly FEELS that way, anyway, as though something that SHOULD NOT be happening, is happening.