Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Discussion of each of the 18 parts of Twin Peaks the Return

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Ragnell
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Ragnell » Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:36 pm

SamGGD wrote:WHAT THE FUCK DID LAURA WHISPER IN TO COOPS EAR??????



"If we're going to spend eternity doing this, promise me we'll stop for sex every couple timelines."
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby 28renton » Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:39 pm

The bluest of roses indeed.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby bastia » Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:41 pm

Ragnell wrote:
SamGGD wrote:WHAT THE FUCK DID LAURA WHISPER IN TO COOPS EAR??????



"If we're going to spend eternity doing this, promise me we'll stop for sex every couple timelines."


I am like a blue rose
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby garethw » Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:43 pm

Not sure if mentioned elsewhere yet - Alice Tremond was playef by the actual current ownrr of the house.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Drgarage » Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:50 pm

claaa7 wrote:I just rewatched both parts (couldn't resist) and the little move that Cooper makes right before he says "What year is this?" to Laura is not a Dougie move as some has described it (at least not only).. it's the almost exact move that Mister C makes before being thrown into the White Lodge from Jack Rabbit's Palace in ep. 17.. a little step forward and reaching out into the air as if to open a door... very intriguing discovery!!

Same gesture he made to make the curtain open into Glastonbury Grove in 18.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Firewalkwithme91 » Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:50 pm

Ragnell wrote:
SamGGD wrote:WHAT THE FUCK DID LAURA WHISPER IN TO COOPS EAR??????



"If we're going to spend eternity doing this, promise me we'll stop for sex every couple timelines."


"I´m as blank as a fart." :mrgreen:
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby BigEd » Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:51 pm

Rami Airola wrote: That said, bring on Season 4. I will watch it.
But Season 3 will be my least favorite of Twin Peaks seasons.


How can you say that before you see season four? It could be 24 hours of the White Lodge room full of teapots (each somehow containing the essence of our favorite characters) just steaming out random stuff about time/space/numbers/lodges/etc. We, of course, would still waste hours speculating on the meaning and gender implications.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby TheGum » Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:54 pm

Jacob wrote:
TheGum wrote:
Jacob wrote:Anyway, I really don't get the "Laura is the embodiment of nirvana" theory. I mean, come on : the girl was a prostitute and on coke even before she turned 18. Don't get me wrong, I know she was a victim. But I really can't see how we can make her an icon of detachment and nothingness. The girl has always been wild.
So I can't help myself to be really suspicious when we're talking of Laura like a "pure innocence" figure. Look at her when RichardCoop is coming to get her : there is a fucking dead body in her living room ! She's doomed to be surrounded by chaos. If she's the embodiment of Nirvana, well, no wonder Cooper and her are fucking lost god knows where. I've seen better Buddha.
I know I may be the only one here, but I still believe that Laura is maybe an incarnation of Judy. And maybe that's what she's telling Cooper during the final credits.


I don't believe Laura is the embodiment of nirvana, I believe she was created as an example, an extreme example of suffering to show how to reach nirvana. How to detach from that suffering. She has reached nirvana.

So why, when she was saved by Cooper, she was transfered to another timeline and not to "nirvana" ? Why she still exists ? And with a corpse in her living room ? And screaming like she's possessed ? The ending of FWWM looked like she may have reached nirvana. This ending, much more dark, brutal and real, less so imo :?


Nirvana is a state of being, not a place. She attained this by escaping the suffering here on earth. Her purpose in Coopers storyline now is as a test, "when you see me again it won't be me." FWWM is the end of us following Laura's journey. The Return is all about Cooper's. Remember the LMFAP says to him early in in his Black Lodge entrapment-- "there is no where to go but home." LMFAP is not evolved, he is at his base the evil that was present in Gerard. The Return proves you can't go home. He was mocking Cooper, and whether or not the Buddhist idea speaks to you, the Return proves you can never go home.
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Ragnell
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Ragnell » Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:07 pm

SamGGD wrote:
KyleRickards wrote:Another question, is there any chance that our Dale is actually the one that's gone to Vegas to be with Sonny Jim and the newly created version of Cooper is Richard now and who found Carrie?



Nah. He barely knew Jayney and Sonny Jim. We are more connected to them than we are to Diane, but Cooper is not. He loves Diane (apparently).


Comparing their sex scenes, I'd say he was more in love with Janey-E.

Seriously, though. I think that sex scene was a big sign that the thing between Diane and Dale was not romance. It was either a ritual or the dying relationship of Richard and Linda seeping in.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Saela » Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:12 pm

I think even if we get a Season 4, Lynch/Frost would most likely do the same thing again, and leave us with another mind-bender that offers a lot more questions than answers and people would scream Season 5. To be clear, I'd be yrev very happy if Season 4 would be a go, but I loved how this ended and would be fine with it being the end.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby ThumbsUp » Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:18 pm

Hester Prynne wrote:
TheGum wrote:Why are the chairs upside down? What an awkward feeling that Judy's has!


And why was Cooper clearly drinking from an empty coffee cup? That was like rash girl drinking from the empty beer can. Does this harken back to the magic trick with the disappearing coffee and creamed corn? Is Odessa an illusion?


Judy's big open floor reminded me of the Roadhouse and the diner status reminded me of the Double R and Hap's.

N. Needleman wrote:
Cipher wrote:Connection I just saw in a comment section: Phillip Jeffries also asks what year it is during his visit to the FBI in Fire Walk With Me.


Oh fuck. You're right.


Good call! Maybe Coop might end up being dumped back into the "real world" in a similarly distressed mental state.

Cipher wrote:
tresojos wrote:so is audrey stuck in the lodge forever?

Audrey's stuck somewhere that isn't the reality she thought she knew, and so is Cooper.


Yeah, see my earlier posts about Audrey. I don't think she's in the Lodge per se, but I think Evil Coop took here to the Convenience Store like he did Diane, and now she's stuck in some looping alternate reality or reincarnation cycle that Coop/Richard, Diane/Linda and Laura/Carrie are all in. She, Charlie, Sarah Palmer and the Arm all mention "stories," which I believe to be the in-show term for the different universes or dimensions or timelines or whatever. I think Audrey's situation, especially her own awakening, is the closest additional example we have in the show to compare to what Coop and Laura are going through now.

Tailsun wrote:
tresojos wrote:will we ever found out what was the story of the little girl who lived down the road??


All we need to know is what Hawk told us - it's a very bad story, one we don't want to hear.

I can't stop thinking about it since it is the one real link between Audrey's reality, the Arm, and Twin Peaks. I think it's going to take a rewatch before I can settle on a reading.


Totally. See above.

BEARisonFord wrote:
Cipher wrote:
TheGum wrote:I have never felt so satisfied at the end of a series as I do right now.

Only Mad Men's supersedes it for me.

In the past twelve hours, I have gone from having significant reservations to loving it as an ending for the whole of Peaks. Can't stop thinking about it, and like it more and more.


The parallels between the artistry of Mad Men and Twin Peaks are potent. I definitely got the same feeling with both.


Yeah, Mad Men was my favourite show before The Return (it's now The Return). The two shows have a lot in common, I think.

dropkick23 wrote:When Cooper and Diane prepare to 'cross over' past the 430 mark the situation seems befitting to Hastings and Ruth making the decision to enter the zone.


Nice call! Reddit pointed out some foreshadowing on Hastings' "website" that basically touches on the idea of what would happen if an outsider from another era or dimension showed up in a different one.

https://www.reddit.com/r/twinpeaks/comments/6xxwqe/s3e18_bill_hastings_website_seems_to_have/

Pinky wrote:the 'are we being followed?' scene was great. When they turned off the road, I was waiting for the lights to reappear.


Some of the creepiest material all season for me.

I kind of took the whole Richard/Carrie driving sequence, stopping for gas, being passed by cars etc. as a symbol for people in different dimensions, stages of reincarnation, timelines, whatever - different "stories" - the way Bad and Good Coop both drive a lot in the season and share the same Lost Highway POV. It's no accident that one of the scenes was Rich and Carrie walking outside a gas station convenience store, it's not Lynch just trolling us. It's a reference point to how "the" Convenience Store was a nexus or hub world for people and different iterations and themselves traveling to different versions of reality.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby ThumbsUp » Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:22 pm

nonemoreblack wrote:I realise this is probably going to be a minority opinion, but did anyone else get the impression Diane was given a prominent role just because she's Laura Dern, and Lynch was looking for an excuse to work with her as much as possible? It doesn't sit well with me how the original characters were pretty much shoved to the side in favour of her.


I loved Diane as the Diane tulpa, and as a morally ambiguous supporting character and I liked who the bodiless "Diane" ended up being and what she was like.

What I wasn't crazy about was her importance at the very end and how she had to travel with Coop to the other dimension and all the rest. I would've liked to see Audrey do that instead, or maybe ditch the "Linda" bit completely.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby rocketsan22 » Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:24 pm

nonemoreblack wrote:What I'm finding difficult with the finale is separating my mind and my heart. I can appreciate all the interesting theories about what it means, but I can't switch off the feelings I had for these characters in the original Twin Peaks. The world is already going through a dark time, and Cooper has always been a ray of light. No matter how much I understand the point being made with his arc, it's hurtful for that Cooper to be taken away as soon as he was brought back. And I don't know if I'll ever be able to watch Audrey's old scenes the same way now that she has such a bleak fate. It's just too much nihilism for me to take right now. The theory of it being a new mystery the Fireman is guiding Cooper through is the one I'd most like to believe.

This!!!!!
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Agent327 » Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:28 pm

BigEd wrote:
Those who wanted "super hero Coop" got it at Judy's diner. That was one of the most rewarding scenes of the entire movie.


Sadly you may be right. At least about being one of the most rewarding scenes of The Return.

But that says more about The Return than it does about that scene.

It was not very satisfying, since it didn't feel like, and wasn't meant to, feel like Coop.....at all. So it had next to no impact. Obviously did not behave exactly like Coop at any point in this alternative dimension. But he was flat out ANTI Coop during that scene, the sex scene, seeing a dead guy in Carrie's house without commenting or caring much at all, just coldly ignoring Carrie when she tried to talk to him in the car etc.

He even took on some of Evil Coops facial expressions at times, although I don't think the take away here is that we were watching Evil Coop.

Anyone has a good explanation for this Coop? Is he a dream version of himself, as seen in his own dream by crossing over to that dimension with Diane in the car?
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby ThumbsUp » Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:35 pm

Agent327 wrote:
BigEd wrote:
Those who wanted "super hero Coop" got it at Judy's diner. That was one of the most rewarding scenes of the entire movie.


Sadly you may be right. At least about being one of the most rewarding scenes of The Return.

But that says more about The Return than it does about that scene.

It was not very satisfying, since it didn't feel like, and wasn't meant to, feel like Coop.....at all. So it had next to no impact. Obviously did not behave exactly like Coop at any point in this alternative dimension. But he was flat out ANTI Coop during that scene, the sex scene, seeing a dead guy in Carrie's house without commenting or caring much at all, just coldly ignoring Carrie when she tried to talk to him in the car etc.

He even took on some of Evil Coops facial expressions at times, although I don't think the take away here is that we were watching Evil Coop.

Anyone has a good explanation for this Coop? Is he a dream version of himself, as seen in his own dream by crossing over to that dimension with Diane in the car?


I think that's the point, that in the last part of this story we saw shades of the many facets of Coop that were explored all season long - as others in this thread have said, the Judy's scene contains displays of Coop, Mr. C and Dougie.

I dunno, maybe it's all a statement of how there seemingly infinite sides to everyone. It ties into the Twin Peaks themes of duality, twins, doppelgangers, tulpas, shadow selves, hidden identities and secrets, etc.

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