Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

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Hester Prynne
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Hester Prynne » Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:25 pm

Found this and thought it was interesting - a poster on welcometotwinpeaks.com mentioned that there was a case from 1961 in Odessa, Texas of a high school student who was murdered by her boyfriend and who is purported to haunt the high school.

http://welcometotwinpeaks.com/discuss/t ... ssa-texas/

This is a more in depth article here about who she was and what happened.

https://www.texasmonthly.com/articles/a ... ore-dying/
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nonemoreblack
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby nonemoreblack » Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:27 pm

Jacob wrote:
nonemoreblack wrote:
Cooperscoffeecup wrote:
I wondered why Diane had such a prominent role. It's the only character that really grated on me.


Same. Since we never got to know the real Diane it felt like another Annie situation where her importance seemed to come out of nowhere. The kiss when Naido turned into Diane felt cheap as well. There was never any indication they had that kind of relationship before.


I disagree. Both have been stuck in their life for 25 years, both have been the victims of the same guy, and both have met each other in a surreal purple world. It's like there's only Diane who can understand what Coop has gone through, and there's only Coop who can understand what Diane has gone through. But I agree : the kiss was a bit much.


That makes sense, but I guess it keeps going back to the fact that we can't have much - if any - emotional attachment to Diane since we don't know her at all. It doesn't make sense to me that there would be these parallels between Diane and Audrey, only for poor Audrey to be left in the dust even though she could've related to Cooper in the same way Diane could. I keep thinking about how the abuse Diane went through was acknowledged in a way during that sex scene, and when her tulpa described what happened to her. Audrey's abuse wasn't addressed at all, which strikes me as cruel. I would've liked the connection between both women to have been part of the conclusion. It could've given Diane greater depth to be able to relate to Audrey in that way.
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Audrey Horne
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Audrey Horne » Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:35 pm

Hell, I probably would've complained but make the Naido character be Diane, then when Cooper exits the grove, make it Audrey who goes on the car trip. And maybe flip back to Diane... and alternate in that hotel room, and still have it be Richard and Linda as their names.
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baxter
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby baxter » Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:35 pm

On waking this morning, I felt a simple reading of the finale that seems more simple than most of what has been posted here.

What can Cooper do once he has resolved everything (part 17). He can't just retire. He has learnt a lot more about the structure of reality (and its many layers/levels) from his time traversing these strange places. So he carries on his work. Maybe he was always intending to do that,since its his job as a Blue Rose agent. Indeed, that's basically what Briggs was doing. Briggs discovered Judy, and the Blue Rose team are still involved in tracking it down as a threat and responding to it. In some mysterious way that I can't fathom, Laura is a pawn/tool in that fight, as illustrated by her manufacture by the Fireman who is guiding Cooper with clues, exactly as he did in S1 and S2. The only difference in S3 is that we have explicitly seen Cooper interacting with him in a very knowing way.

I don't see Part 18 as a bad ending at all. It's a glimpse of what Cooper has to do next- continue his work in finding Laura and continuing the hunt for/fight against Judy. It's not in fact a closed ending- its an open ending intended to keep a S4 on the cards, but if it has to stop no problem. We now know what Cooper is up to.

The transitional scene in the Sherrif's station is where Cooper takes his leave to continue his fight. Jeffries did the same thing in FWWM, but we saw it from an outsiders perspective. In Part 17, we saw it from an insiders perspective, along with the massive confusion of what transferring between these realities actually feels like. That's why there are so many parallels between those two scenes (similar dialogue,the shout "Gordon!" from Cooper, "we live inside a dream", etc).

At some level, this is about a fight between good and evil across the planes of reality, which should appear as confusing and awe-inspiring as it does.
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Audrey Horne
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Audrey Horne » Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:38 pm

What did Mr. C actually want?
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Firewalkwithme91
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Firewalkwithme91 » Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:42 pm

Audrey Horne wrote:What did Mr. C actually want?


To be reunited with his mother. Maybe use her power? Figure out where BOB comes from?
Last edited by Firewalkwithme91 on Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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N. Needleman
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby N. Needleman » Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:43 pm

I think he wanted to access the White Lodge. And possibly also find the Mother - or both. But he didn't seem to fully comprehend Judy anymore than our Cooper fully understood his own aims. Once Mr. C found the Lodge he was immediately undone. The Fireman and Briggs laid a trap.
AnotherBlueRoseCase wrote:The Return is clearly guaranteed a future audience among stoners and other drug users.
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Firewalkwithme91
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Firewalkwithme91 » Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:45 pm

N. Needleman wrote:I think he wanted to access the White Lodge. And possibly also find the Mother - or both. But he didn't seem to fully comprehend Judy anymore than our Cooper fully understood his own aims. Once Mr. C found the Lodge he was immediately undone. The Fireman and Briggs laid a trap.


If there is an unspoken war going on between the lodges I can see Mr. C teaming up with the mother to invade the White Lodge and destroy it forever.
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Audrey Horne
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Audrey Horne » Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:54 pm

Ah, okay... do you think Lynch and Forst had it defined... because it's pretty ambiguous to give it dramatic urgency and weight.
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nonemoreblack
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby nonemoreblack » Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:56 pm

ThumbsUp wrote:Yeah, it added to my emotional distress last night checking Twitter and seeing crazy news about North Korea. We are living in a dark age, as Janey-E says, and I'm not going to get political or talk about current affairs on here, but it did make The Return's conclusion bleaker for me, especially when considering the historical references in Part 8.

But we have to take it for what it is and allow ourselves to process it and feel whatever emotions we feel and not judge them. That's what art is for and Twin Peaks is art. All I know is I'll spend more time thinking about this finale more than any other, and that it made me feel stronger emotions than any other TV finale ever has.

I love the finale the more that we talk about it, but for the record, my immediate reaction was disappointment - which I still kind of feel, but that's okay; Lynch and Frost wanted us to feel many different things.


Very true. The more I talk about it, it helps me embrace the complicated emotions it gave me.

Ashok wrote:+1.

I want a Season 4. Not because I want answers, but I want to see the Fireman guide Richard/Cooper thru this darkness to rediscover his kinder identity. There seemed to be a central theme to The Return that our Cooper radiated warmth and was healing the world around him (i.e. the Mitchum Bros. fell in love with him, Anthony broke down in tears and couldn't poison him, Janey-E and Sonny Jim loved Dougie Coop, etc). I don't mind if Season 4 ends with a million questions but I just want to see Cooper's story end with him bringing light back into the world even if 12 more doors are opened in parallel.


FlyingSquirrel wrote:I agree, it is kind of discouraging to leave on this note. Even being in the Lodge and helping to guide Laura to her angel would have been a more satisfying conclusion than Cooper not knowing what year it is and Laura screaming. I appreciate intellectually the point that, I think, is being made - that trying to harness the supernatural forces at work for something as big as rewriting history is doomed to backfire somehow, and that some of what the Lodge denizens do just defies human understanding. But Cooper is a character who stands out for his fundamental decency and honor in this age of real-life upheavals and entertainment populated by so many murky anti-heroes. Sure, he's still a flawed human being, but it seemed like he was repeating his error from Episode 29 here (i.e. thinking he had more control over these strange forces than he does) - if he was going to make a big mistake at some point in this series, he could have at least learned from his past and made a *new* big mistake. Hell, I wouldn't have even complained if they'd gone in the direction that I thought they might be going, with Cooper having to sacrifice his life to allow Dougie to live again. But Team Idealism has been taking a beating both IRL and in fiction lately and this did feel kind of like another win for Team Cynicism.


You all summed up my thoughts perfectly. The power of Cooper's innate goodness through the Dougie storyline was the most impactful part of the season for me and a real breath of fresh air. Even with his flaws he is definitely a special person. I like the idea of Cooper finding acceptance of both parts of himself, and not in the creepy Richard way he ended on.
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Firewalkwithme91
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Firewalkwithme91 » Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:07 pm

Audrey Horne wrote:Ah, okay... do you think Lynch and Forst had it defined... because it's pretty ambiguous to give it dramatic urgency and weight.


Your guess is as good as mine. However, for some reason the scene where Mr. C shows Darya the card in episode 2 has always stuck in my mind throughout this whole run whenever I saw Mr. C investigating coordinates. It feels like his overall goal is to find that thing on the card which we assume is the Experiment.
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TheGum
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby TheGum » Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:11 pm

Can we also take a moment to appreciate that Jeffries "god it's slippery in here!" line!? Classic. :lol:
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Firewalkwithme91
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Firewalkwithme91 » Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:12 pm

Oh man guys, I can´t take credit for the following line that someone just posted on reddit but think about this especially in regards to the ending: "You´re not gonna tell me what she said?" :shock:
TheLodger1980
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby TheLodger1980 » Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:21 pm

So assuming Laura was not killed by Leland/Bob because Cooper intervened, could this mean that Leland/Bob killed Ronette and was why we saw Ronette/American Girl warning Cooper about her Mother?
Hester Prynne
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Hester Prynne » Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:26 pm

Firewalkwithme91 wrote:
Audrey Horne wrote:Ah, okay... do you think Lynch and Forst had it defined... because it's pretty ambiguous to give it dramatic urgency and weight.


Your guess is as good as mine. However, for some reason the scene where Mr. C shows Darya the card in episode 2 has always stuck in my mind throughout this whole run whenever I saw Mr. C investigating coordinates. It feels like his overall goal is to find that thing on the card which we assume is the Experiment.


He is trying to find his mother. Judy is his mother, but he doesn't know which form she inhabits. The coordinates lead to Judy, who has inhabited Sarah Palmer. I think that is why we see the Palmer House when Mr. C tries to get there through the White Lodge, but the Fireman intervenes and sends him to the Sheriff's Dept instead to be killed. Sarah Palmer/Judy is heard mourning off camera and then visciously attacks Laura's picture because her son, Bob, has died, and Laura played a part in his demise and lives while he does not. She then seeks vengeance by banishing Laura to a different existence. The Fireman sends Coop and Diane to bring her back - I don't know how Diane plays into this - but Judy's power still reigns. This is my best guess!

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