Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

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johndaker
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby johndaker » Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:34 pm

HaroldSmith wrote:I swear I heard Sarah say "Laura?" right before Laura/Carrie screamed.


Yes, this happened.
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Diane
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Diane » Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:36 pm

A voice said "Laura" but I think it was the voice of Bob/Leland.
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blue_tomorrows
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby blue_tomorrows » Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:37 pm

BEARisonFord wrote:
blue_tomorrows wrote:
chromereflectsimage wrote:
The finale made it seem like the previous 16 hours served no purpose.


That appears to be the case. Also Season 1, Season 2, and FWWM. And the Missing Pieces. And TSHOTP.


This is a story. If watching literally any of those could tell you anything, it'd be don't expect anything linear or conventional. Really weird some people are actually upset by this.


I know -- I'm probably over-reacting in the moment. I don't care that it wasn't conventional. I care that it failed to move me on any emotional level. Just me, I guess.
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FlyingSquirrel
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby FlyingSquirrel » Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:37 pm

Can we talk for a second about the Cooper/Diane relationship?

I did read "My Life, My Tapes," but I don't remember the apparent reference to something happening between the two of them at one point. Still, taking for granted that it's there, these episodes make it seem as if they'd been quietly carrying torches for each other all along, and I find that hard to reconcile with what we saw up until now. I mean, Cooper talks openly about his feelings for Annie (whom he doesn't even ask about here) in one of his recordings to Diane - why would he do that if he's secretly in love with her? The only way this makes sense to me is if the two of them actually interacted and had their relationship develop while trapped in the Lodges, but it seems like Diane was essentially imprisoned inside Naido ever since being tulpa-ized, so that doesn't seem likely either. And the hotel sex scene was just bizarre. Cooper's flat affect made me think we were actually seeing Mr. C again at one point.

Obviously there's plenty of unexplained weirdness in this episode, but most of it was plot-based rather than character-based. Cooper himself seemed out of character here.
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crash_and_burn
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby crash_and_burn » Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:37 pm

blue_tomorrows wrote:
chromereflectsimage wrote:
madeleineferguson wrote:
I was expecting a cliffhanger, no real resolution... but this was far beyond that. It felt like the entire story just stopped mid sentence.


The finale made it seem like the previous 16 hours served no purpose.


That appears to be the case. Also Season 1, Season 2, and FWWM. And the Missing Pieces. And TSHOTP.


I hope we're not left digging through the upcoming Frost book "The Final Dossier" just to get some semblance of resolution.

I'm being absolutely sincere in what I'm saying here:

I'm so saddened, frustrated and angry about this ending if there is not another season or movie.
rocketsan22
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby rocketsan22 » Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:38 pm

What the holy hell did Julie Cruise say on Twitter a
Couple days ago?????????
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Jonah
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Jonah » Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:40 pm

(Edited - Two years later and I've warmed to this episode. But as you can see from my original comments here I was quite disappointed and negative about it at the time! I still have some issues with it but I'm leaving my original comment to show the initial disappointment at the time, especially with the lack of Audrey and more, etc., some of which I still stand by. I also stand by the fact that the episode is slow and a bit boring, not much happens, etc. I just don't feel as strongly negative about it anymore.)

Quick Thoughts on Part 18 -

Ugh. It was just awful. Single-handedly the worst episode of any TV show I've ever seen. The worst finale ever.

And I usually hate it when people say things like that and jump in to defend the writers/creators. But this was just awful. Even leaving aside the dashed/hopes expectations (of seeing Audrey again, of seeing a battle or a reunion between Laura and Sarah) it was dull. Even if it is somehow explained through a lot of creative apologist revisionist criticism and there's some deep metaphysical or metafictional explanation to Odessa and Carrie Page, it was just dull. I know it might all be a dream - or another level of reality - or Cooper somehow trying to save Laura and prevent/retcon her murder, screwed up reality - blah blah blah. No explanation - no matter how clever - can save the fact that it was just a dull, tedious hour of TV. This wasn't "Mulholland Drive" or even "Inland Empire". Even with the latter, when you didn't know what was going on, the visuals and the style was alluring or intriguing or shocking. This was just painfully boring. I've been mixed on this season - veering between disappointed and trying to make the best of it - and always admitted it was not the "Twin Peaks" revival I had dreamed/hoped/longed for, but tried to make the best of it and always respected the creators' choices to follow their own truth and vision, but this was just shit imo.

Ok so....

On a bigger note:

No resolution to Becky. Or Shelley. Or Red. Or Sarah. Or (and this is the hardest to swallow) Audrey. Let alone Annie, et al.

Oh well.

But again, even leaving aside expectations and dashed hopes for plot/character resolution, leaving ALL that aside, even viewing this as some sort of meta anti-narrative, this was just a tedious, boring episode. (That final scene - spoiled by TMZ - had a mildly intriguing Chalfont/Tremond connection, but was otherwise completely lacking in every department.)
Last edited by Jonah on Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:18 am, edited 8 times in total.
Hester Prynne
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Hester Prynne » Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:40 pm

BigEd wrote:I want to know who the man was that Tremond was talking to. I thought we were going to see Leland peering out a window.


I thought he was the one that was going to answer the door for a moment.
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BigEd
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby BigEd » Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:41 pm

A lot of people have said that they wanted Laura back. Well, you got her!! (kind of)
rocketsan22
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby rocketsan22 » Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:43 pm

Hester Prynne wrote:
BigEd wrote:I want to know who the man was that Tremond was talking to. I thought we were going to see Leland peering out a window.


I thought he was the one that was going to answer the door for a moment.

Now THAT would have been slick!!!
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Diane
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Diane » Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:44 pm

So...I'm just thinking out loud trying to make sense of things.

"Through the darkness of future past." "Is it future or is it past?" In this episode, in the Sheriff's station, Cooper says something to the effect that the future is built on the past.

And then he goes and alters the past by saving Laura. Leland said twice for him to "Find Laura."

Throughout the series and the movie whenever someone "doesn't live there anymore" there is always a Tremond or a Chalfont. Obviously everyone has different identities at the end. Has Cooper altered the course of time? Did the death of Bob at the Sheriff's station alter the course of time?

Is "Laura" remembering the voice of her killer from another life at the end or is she experiencing something in the moment?
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crash_and_burn
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby crash_and_burn » Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:44 pm

Jonah wrote:Quick Thoughts:

17 -

Pretty good.

I thought the Bob battle was a bit cheesy and OTT.

I liked much of the rest of it.

The Laura retconning intrigues me as a writer. I think it would have been more touching and powerful had it not been for that hideous wig. People complained about the wig in FWMM, but it's nothing compared to this one. It was just awful. But I like the idea here overall - Cooper stepping into the past to save Laura the night she was going to be murdered. I think this was an idea that probably looked better on paper - and even though retconning (especially to this extreme) is always controversial - I was intrigued by all of this.

Disappointing that we got so little of Julee Cruise. They played full songs for the others but here we only got a brief snippet.

18 -

Ugh. It was just awful. Single-handedly the worst episode of any TV show I've ever seen. The worst finale ever.

And I usually hate it when people say things like that and jump in to defend the writers/creators. But this was just awful. Even leaving aside the dashed/hopes expectations (of seeing Audrey again, of seeing a battle or a reunion between Laura and Sarah) it was dull. Even if it is somehow explained through a lot of creative apologist revisionist criticism and there's some deep metaphysical or metafictional explanation to Odessa and Carrie Page, it was just dull. I know it might all be a dream - or another level of reality - or Cooper somehow trying to save Laura and prevent/retcon her murder, screwed up reality - blah blah blah. No explanation - no matter how clever - can save the fact that it was just a dull, tedious hour of TV. This wasn't "Mulholland Drive" or even "Inland Empire". Even with the latter, when you didn't know what was going on, the visuals and the style was alluring or intriguing or shocking. This was just painfully boring. I've been mixed on this season - veering between disappointed and trying to make the best of it - and always admitted it was not the "Twin Peaks" revival I had dreamed/hoped/longed for, but tried to make the best of it and always respected the creators' choices to follow their own truth and vision, but this was just shit imo.

Ok so....

On a bigger note:

No resolution to Becky. Or Shelley. Or Red. Or Sarah. Or (and this is the hardest to swallow) Audrey. Let alone Annie, et al.

Oh well.


Thank you for taking the time to spell out in more detail why Part 18 was so disappointing.

For the record, I absolutely loved Part 17.

I'm headed to the bar.

Fuck this shit ending.
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John Justice Wheeler
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby John Justice Wheeler » Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:44 pm

Awesome. Fucking GREAT. Cooper and Laura and us tethered together forever in incomprehension. Deeply inscrutable and strange in all the best ways, not merely obscure, ways I had almost given up on the show providing. Recalled for me the equally superb Harry Dean Stanton/Freddie Jones episode of Lynch's Hotel Room which I still consider among his very best works. I hope this is it, finish, though I'm sure the ultra amped up incoherence will incline many to want more, forever more to explain it all away.
Last edited by John Justice Wheeler on Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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BEARisonFord
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby BEARisonFord » Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:44 pm

Did anyone really expect a "battle" between Sarah & Laura? Have you been watching the same show as me?
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twin-b
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby twin-b » Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:45 pm

FlyingSquirrel wrote:Can we talk for a second about the Cooper/Diane relationship?

I did read "My Life, My Tapes," but I don't remember the apparent reference to something happening between the two of them at one point. Still, taking for granted that it's there, these episodes make it seem as if they'd been quietly carrying torches for each other all along, and I find that hard to reconcile with what we saw up until now. I mean, Cooper talks openly about his feelings for Annie (whom he doesn't even ask about here) in one of his recordings to Diane - why would he do that if he's secretly in love with her? The only way this makes sense to me is if the two of them actually interacted and had their relationship develop while trapped in the Lodges, but it seems like Diane was essentially imprisoned inside Naido ever since being tulpa-ized, so that doesn't seem likely either. And the hotel sex scene was just bizarre. Cooper's flat affect made me think we were actually seeing Mr. C again at one point.

Obviously there's plenty of unexplained weirdness in this episode, but most of it was plot-based rather than character-based. Cooper himself seemed out of character here.


Bingo. I didn't get much Coop-ness from him in the final part.

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