The Secret History of Twin Peaks

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Panapaok
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Postby Panapaok » Mon Oct 24, 2016 12:33 am

Yeah, you CAN'T just forget that Annie won Miss Twin Peaks. Something is definitely happening here and I guess we'll find out in S3.
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crossoverman
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Postby crossoverman » Mon Oct 24, 2016 1:37 am

Nor can you avoid mentioning Annie in season three, when most people remember the closing scene of the original series was Cooper/BOB asking "How's Annie?" I think, even the most casual viewer, if they've revisited the show some time in the last few years, at least, will remember that closing moment.

If Annie is erased or Cooper is all "We're not going to talk about Annie" just as Jeffries didn't want to talk about Judy, we've got a key mystery to drive the series. Mark Frost is laying the groundwork for this now, especially with a book that has no mention of her name AND has essentially written her mother out of existence, too.

I like the idea that Isla was really Norma's grandmother and that all mentions of Vivian Niles have been altered/deleted to protect Annie somehow. Hmmm.
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Postby hopesfall » Mon Oct 24, 2016 2:00 am

Not to mention, as previously mentioned in the thread, TP calls into question Cooper's motives for even documenting Norma's backstory, among other things, which in turn (to me at least) appears to be a nod for us to be doing the same thing.
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Postby ForKeeps » Mon Oct 24, 2016 2:57 am

Could it be as simple as Windham Earle realizing that she was Cooper's GF and rigging the contest so Annie would win? So technically Lana was the "real" winner?

I'm not yet convinced this is all some grand scheme that will have a major impact on S3 and not just for Frost to tie up in the next book. As many have said there's no way the book is going to be mandatory for understanding S3.
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Postby StealThisCorn » Mon Oct 24, 2016 3:44 am

Hot take: Annie is like the new Judy.

Imagine Mark Frost saying in his best David Bowie impression, "We're not gonna talk about Annie at all, in fact, we're gonna leave her out of this!

It occurs to me that the stuff with Lana, Norma's family history and the hush hush surrounding Annie may be the result of an entire plot point which spiraled out of David and Mark choosing to expand on the significance of the show's final ominous closing line, where the Bad Dale (and BOB) ask with mocking laughter, "How's Annie?

Perhaps Annie's ordeal in the Red Room and BOB's powers over time and space is what has somehow resulted in this mysterious temporal weirdness and the fate Annie suffered is having ramifications throughout the entire timeline, subtly altering events and people surrounding her. She was able to get that message to Laura at least. Something is definitely happening with this. No one is crazy. It could be taken too far, but Mark Frost's statement that "All will be revealed in time" and that he "isn't supposed to discuss Annie" is very telling.

After thinking about it, I'm pretty well convinced that this may all be the result of Mark and David wanting to give more weight to the "How's Annie?" line and make the answer far more interesting than anyone would've expected.
Last edited by StealThisCorn on Mon Oct 24, 2016 3:55 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Postby laughingpinecone » Mon Oct 24, 2016 3:48 am

Re: alternate dimensions, I think that trying to examine this text and its implications for s3 under a sci-fi lens is misleading. Fringe this ain't, nor can we write a roleplay rulebook about this. I don't think we're gonna find hard rules that will detail the specifics of timeline alterations. I was actually worried that Frost might bring it all a little too much in the realm of rationality, and what we got instead are those beautiful passages on the importance of mystery. There may well be dimensional shenanigans afoot, but I believe they'll turn out to be as ineffable as your average Lynch movie.

Conversely, re: tampering theories, and here I shouldn't really be talking yet because my physical book still hasn't shipped (still gonna punch a bookstore :evil: ) and the audiobook doesn't lend itself to this kind of discussion... anyway.
I'm intrigued by the possibility of some misdirection going on. A secret thread running through some details, a few documents. It's hard to miss the hint in the title, with how "secret" is treated as a loaded word throughout the text! But I don't think it can be ALL a conspiracy within the conspiracy.
First because, as someone already pointed out, it would invalidate the literal content of the book. If it's all lies, who cares. Second, because a lot of the inconsistencies would be so easy to debunk! Norma's parents, for example, or Ed and Nadine's wedding. The date of Josie's death. Hiding a fake dossier in the Bookhouse is really not how one would go about protecting/obscuring Annie's existence. It makes zero sense to me.
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Postby N. Needleman » Mon Oct 24, 2016 3:53 am

What do we know about Jeffries' disappearance that is actually solidly canonical and not either fan spec or early material discussed by the creatives that never materialized onscreen (i.e., ties to Windom Earle which Bob Engels may have mentioned)?

- He was on assignment in Buenos Aires. He disappears there in 1987 ('damn near two years').
- He has been to the Black Lodge or somewhere else the Lodge beings reside.
- He found them by way of something 'in Seattle at Judy's'. (this is taken from the deleted scenes, assuming the Missing Pieces are now canonical, which I do)
- He will not talk about Judy.
- He may or may not have been affiliated with Project Blue Book and the Blue Rose cases.

That's about it, as far as I know.

FWIW: I somehow doubt Lynch has ever forgotten about the dream sequence with Annie and Laura in FWWM. It is one of very few literal plot points he's ever gone out of his way to discuss in print with a journalist. Per what he says, I believe Laura did write about Dale in her diary and that the truth is waiting there to be found, possibly in an FBI or TP Sheriff's Department archive, wherever those pages ended up. Lynch was going to see it that Laura was responsible for saving Cooper and giving the story some kind of happy ending.

And I do think some time travel will be involved, yes. I doubt anyone will be trekking around in a DeLorean or doing stuff like Fringe but FWWM has already demonstrated an interest in this, with both Annie and Jeffries.
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Postby AgentCoop » Mon Oct 24, 2016 4:17 am

The title of the book may be significant. The book makes a point of differentiating between secrets and mysteries. Mysteries, we are more or less told, are beautiful things and inherent to nature. They can lead us to the truth. Secrets, on the other hand, are man made constructs designed to obfuscate. They hide the truth.

The book isn't called The Mysterious History Of Twin Peaks. ;)
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Postby LostInTheMovies » Mon Oct 24, 2016 5:22 am

I'm also interested in knowing more about the *massive* shift from Secret Lives to Secret History. That was literally a different book, in more than just title. Do we think Frost found that his interests led him elsewhere, or that he realized he couldn't tell those stories without spoiling many of season 3's surprises?
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Postby LonelySoul » Mon Oct 24, 2016 5:28 am

I'd post this in the inconsistencies thread, but there are more people reading this one I suspect.

Can anyone identify what the stamp says in the upper right of Norma's postcard to her parents? This is version of the postcard shown in the July trailer, not the moon landing version we actually see in the book.

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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Postby laughingpinecone » Mon Oct 24, 2016 5:44 am

LostInTheMovies wrote:I'm also interested in knowing more about the *massive* shift from Secret Lives to Secret History. That was literally a different book, in more than just title. Do we think Frost found that his interests led him elsewhere, or that he realized he couldn't tell those stories without spoiling many of season 3's surprises?

Same. I hope someone will ask him something about it.
I rather suspect that your last hypothesis has a lot to do with it... The original plans for Secret Lives could still come back as the fabled vol. 2 after the show airs, but on the other hand, the book's own internal cliffhanger makes it sound like any continuation would be more along the lines of "the merry adventures of DoppelBOB and Briggsy"...
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Postby Tony Franciosa » Mon Oct 24, 2016 5:50 am

maybe Annie dies and Lana is the "winner" by virtue of being 1st runner up and taking the crown from a deceased winner.
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Postby Yasdnil » Mon Oct 24, 2016 6:02 am

N. Needleman wrote:I had a feeling the Lana line was scripted too. No avid fan is not going to know Annie won Miss Twin Peaks. Saying that in public seemed designed to troll the audience.

It could be two things: a) As I theorized before, Lana stepped in to win the crown she was stumping for due to the chaos at the pageant, or b) something far stranger is occurring. Though I assume it could be both.


Remember the Berenstein/Berenstain Bears controversy from a while back? That's all I can think about re: Frost's Lana comment...he's trying to tell us we're remembering it incorrectly, just like some of us remembered the Berenstain Bears incorrectly. Why??

I think someone's been messing with the timeline...
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Postby dronerstone » Mon Oct 24, 2016 6:34 am

Mandela Effect much?
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Postby hopesfall » Mon Oct 24, 2016 7:00 am

I just want to quickly express my delight in how they have subtly fleshed out one of my favourite characters that FWWM brought to the mythos: Carl Rodd.

It makes me incredibly excited about Harry Dean Stanton's inclusion in the new episodes. I always wondered what he meant by his line about already having gone places, and now it's been rather tantalisingly hinted at. I do hope it's elaborated on, or at least his character continues to evolve in the show, as he has potential to be a very important part. Not sure I'd try his coffee though. :wink:

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