The Secret History of Twin Peaks

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Rainwater
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Postby Rainwater » Sat Nov 05, 2016 6:33 pm

Nightsea wrote:
laughingpinecone wrote:There doesn't seem to be a watershed event, no "Laura is alive" scenario... and of course Lynch being Lynch, I don't think it's gonna be this simple and clear-cut.


We haven't seen the last of a living, breathing Laura Palmer I imagine.

If any sort of alternate timeline scenario crops up, I'm hoping for a puzzle with layers upon layers that never really lends itself to one particular "correct" interpretation. Maybe the structure of the new episodes will just be a natural outgrowth of where Lynch was headed with Mulholland Drive, Inland Empire, and Lost Highway.

@ Audrey Horne and asmahan, I had never really thought about that before– how Annie isn't touched upon in certain finale scenes. The Double R scene is understandable... just a goofy moment, but in regard to Norma... yes, it seems like she would've been more distressed. I'm curious as to if Caroline will be alive and well in the new episodes...

I always thought of it the other way around, as Norma's lack of reaction simply being a goof and the Double R scene - an indication that something is off.
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Coopergänger
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Postby Coopergänger » Sat Nov 05, 2016 7:29 pm

Hey folks.

Long time lurker, first time poster, blah blah... the usual stuff, you know.

Also I'm spanish... so, sadly, don't expect a perfect use of english from me :P


Thinking about all these incoherences in TSHOTP and the lack of Annie, my mind went on this quote from Dr. Jacobi regarding Civil War Ben:

"What he's doing is quite healthy. I mean, by reversing the South's defeat in the Civil War, he in turn will reverse his own emotional setback"

So given the rumors of Cooper (or someone else) reversing details of the late TP history for his own protection or any other hidden purpose... is this Civil War Ben arch being used in the new series as a parallelism device in a MUCH larger scale?
baxter
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Postby baxter » Sat Nov 05, 2016 8:08 pm

Have finally finished the book after it arrived earlier in the week. I also skimmed most of this thread.

I think the book confirms that series 3 will be fascinating. The early insistence on the dichotomy between mysteries and secrets, and the late summary that all of the anomalous happenings have a common origin forever beyond our understanding leads me to think that the essence of the series will be a metaphysical conundrum, exactly of the type Lynch has explored in Inland Empire, Mulholland Drive, Lost Highway and, to some extent, Fire Walk with Me. The key difference is that Mark Frost is grounding this is a conventional narrative. Lots of the book felt to me like a Frost version of Lynch's recent work, where the ambiguity is expressed through differences in account, or a lack of precise information about what has occurred. The written word necessarily makes some things seem more concrete than a cinematic image would (hence the alien bits coming over as too literal in places), but I think the intention was actually to obfuscate a deeper reality that will be explored in the new series in mindblowing fashion. But unlike, say, Inland Empire, my prediction is that there will be a clear "centre" to the story (or a series of them, but you get the point).
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_protogon_
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Postby _protogon_ » Sat Nov 05, 2016 8:15 pm

I had an interesting thought. Diane was a part in Cooper's investigation, no? And yet she was not featured or mentioned in the book (unless I've overlooked something- feel free to tell). This makes me think she might play a critical role in the upcoming season, maybe as Laura Dern's character. It would make sense that Mark Frost would try not to elaborate too much on Diane if her appearance in S3 will be a surprise of some sort.
Just a thought.
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Postby _/\_wowbobwow_/\_ » Sat Nov 05, 2016 10:27 pm

Just my personal opinion but I do not want to see an alternate time-line/reality, I have too much invested in the story so far (meaning EVERYTHING in "The Complete Mystery" blu-ray box) to see MAJOR parts of it just abandoned. I understand that there are fans who feel the first season and Laura's murder is the real Twin Peaks and everything after episode 7 or so of season 2 is just phooey, but there are some of us that are wrapped up in all the questions left unanswered after FWWM (more about/with the ring, Annie lives and gives Laura a message!, Dale warns Laura the ring means death, but she'd rather die than let Bob in - her angel left her anyway; Laura gets her angel back :D but good Dale is in the lodge and can't leave :evil: , has Bob/Dale brushed he teeth yet? :o ) Will Chester Desmond ever be heard from again? Will Phillip Jeffries be saved?, who's Judy? Did Dale see a premonition of Bob Dale in the surveillance camera, or was that some kind of time-skip because of Jeffries jumping into the future? I mean, come on, I know all these questions may not be answered but the continuation of THIS PARTICULAR WORK AND WORLD IS WHAT I WANT. Throwing away entire chunks of cannon would not equal addition by subtraction, in fact it would really be a turn off. :(
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Postby madeleineferguson » Sun Nov 06, 2016 12:03 am

Audrey Horne wrote:It's interesting to note that Annie has been essentially erased in the finale... With the examples of Norma and the Double R scenes, and even Annie herself vaporizing in the Red Room. However, we then have Truman shouting her name when she and Coooer reappear in the Grove. So I'm not sure if existence has been wiped out, but instead perhaps as a civilian who's traveled to this classified dimension, her identity must be covered up in the dossier.


I've considered all of this too, but cannot stop thinking about Annie's presence in FWWM and the Missing Pieces.

I wonder if Annie's disappearance could have something to do with the fact that she's wearing Caroline's dress? Perhaps it was Annie's doppelgänger who made it out of the Lodge?

I will say that I while I'm frustrated in not understanding the deal with Annie Blackburn, it's kind of genius that with all of the new information given to us, the question is still the same 25 years later: "How's Annie?".
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Robot Butler
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Postby Robot Butler » Sun Nov 06, 2016 10:09 am

I don't think we will see an official alternate timeline or anything so Star Trek sounding. I think certain parts of season 2 will be quietly ignored, that's all.
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Cappy
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Postby Cappy » Sun Nov 06, 2016 2:16 pm

I don't feel like there is literally a "mirror universe" version of Twin Peaks floating out there. But the nature of reality in Twin Peaks does seem to shift and change over time.

There's probably something much akin to a Lost Highway experience at play here. Much like Bill Pullman's character in that film, who actually became a different character as an expression of (suppressed) guilt, individuals possessed by Bob are probably caught in a similar experience, where they are constantly creating their own versions of events just to cope with the knowledge of their actions. People have even theorized that Bob might be an elaborate psychological construct Leland used to cope with his guilt, one so powerful that it manifested itself to others and eventually became just as real as The Log Lady or Norma.

This is obviously all speculation, but if individuals can will themselves to become different characters, and will other people to witness these characters, whose to say that characters in Twin Peaks, while under the thrall of some wild emotional torrent, couldn't outright delete a character?
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Postby LauraintheWhiteLodge » Sun Nov 06, 2016 2:37 pm

Just thinking about this wonderful book of Frost and little gray men.

I think all of the “X-Files” comparison stuff is off.

Human beings are hardwired for 35+ alternate states of consciousness. The objective Mysteries we encounter, forever intelligible, get interpreted through our cultural consensual reality. Culture shapes what we can perceive, can interpret, can think about, can communicate. I am pretty sure that both Lynch and Frost are aware of this.

Anthropologist Vincent Crapanzano explains that human beings are capable of more than 35 different states of consciousness (or levels of awareness). These include road trance (arriving at a destination but not recalling how one drove to get there), daydreaming, dreams, nightmares, ecstasy, hallucinations, visions, sky journeys, and many others. Erika Bourguignon’s analysis of 488 societies in the Human Area Relationship Files (at Yale University) concluded that 90% routinely experienced ASCs. In general, anthropologists recognize that ASCs are a panhuman experience.

Our cultural consensus reality helps us interpret and grapple with what we experience when experiencing ALTERNATE REALITY (such as Cooper’s shamanic journeys). Independent scholarly research showed that the same year two hundred or so sightings of the Blessed Virgin were experienced in Eastern Europe almost the same amount of U.F.O. signtings and abductions were experienced by people living in the United States—you will see what your culturally informed mind ALLOWS you to see and your mind provides the soundtrack.

What lies beyond the seeming Owl? What lies beyond the seeming extra-terrestrial? That which cannot be named. Given their predilections in their stories and art, I cannot imagine that Mark Frost and David Lynch are ignorant of these findings.

Some interesting reading from scholarly sources on ASC experiences and how we grapple with them—
John J. Pilch, 1993. Visions in revelation and alternate consciousness: A perspective from cultural anthropology. Listening: Journal of Religion and Culture 28, 231-244.

Pilch, J J 1996. Altered States of consciousness: A "Kitbashed" Model. BTB 26~ 133-
138.

Pilch, J J 1997. BTB Readers guide: Psychological and psychoanalytical approaches to
interpreting the Bible in social-scientific context. BTB 27, 112-116.

Malina, B J & Pilch, J J 2000. Social science commentary on Revelation. Minneapolis:
Fortress.

Rossi, E L 1986. Altered states of consciousness in everyday life: The ultradian rhythms,
in Wolman, B B, and Ullman, M (eds), in Handbook of states of consciousness,
97 -132. New York: Van Nostrand Reinhold Co.

Werntz, D Bickford, R Bloom, F & Singh-Khulsa, S 1982. Alternating cerebralhenlispheric
activity and lateralization of autnomic nervous Function. Neurobiology 4,
225-229.

Goodman, F D 1990. Where the spirits ride the wind: Trancejourneys and other ecstatic
experiences. BloomingtonlIndianapolis: Indiana University Press.

Clottes, J & Lewis-Williams, D 1998. The shamans of prehistory: Trance and magic in
the painted caves. New York: Harry N Abran1s, Inc.

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Adolphus
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Postby Adolphus » Sun Nov 06, 2016 3:01 pm

Since the book includes Jack Parsons, who was a practitioner of Thelema ( under Aleister Crowley ), I wonder if anyone has any theories on how that might apply to the new season?
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The Jumping Man
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Postby The Jumping Man » Sun Nov 06, 2016 3:02 pm

I was at Frost's panel at the Texas Book Festival today. Not much new, but a couple things:

He confirmed that Volume II is coming after the Showtime season, ad it will fit the original description of filling in the missing 25 years between seasons.

He said there's a hidden clue in the Bookhouse shelf photo, seemingly confirming "Fear the Double."

The postmark on the moon landing stamp on Norma's postcard is a mistake by the book's graphics team. No one caught it. So factor that into your theories about every mistake in the book having some hidden meaning.

It was a fun, lively panel. When I got my book signed afterward, the guy in front of me in line complimented Frost on his politically-active Twitter feed. So I followed up by saying I enjoyed Trump's cameo in the book. He laughed and said he had to work him in there somehow and thought that was the appropriate way to do it.
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R B T
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Postby R B T » Sun Nov 06, 2016 3:33 pm

The Jumping Man wrote:The postmark on the moon landing stamp on Norma's postcard is a mistake by the book's graphics team. No one caught it. So factor that into your theories about every mistake in the book having some hidden meaning.

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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Postby dronerstone » Sun Nov 06, 2016 3:50 pm

Nice about the bookshelf photo though!
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Postby wAtChLaR » Sun Nov 06, 2016 4:00 pm

it's more than twin peaks

sometimes you strike gold

he is sooooooooo political...and i love how he incorporated into the secret history

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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Postby wAtChLaR » Sun Nov 06, 2016 4:01 pm

these are life lessons
not solely art
the key is there
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