The Secret History of Twin Peaks

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ForKeeps
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Post by ForKeeps »

Aerozhul wrote:
Mace wrote:Lynch may not have read the book. Lynch may never read the book.
I find this very hard to believe.

Really? He couldn't find time to record the Gordon Cole part for the audio version but you think he's gonna sit down and read a 360 page book? I don't mean this as a criticism at all but I think Lynch could care less about stuff like this.
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Post by Driftwood »

The Jumping Man wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks that any inconsistencies are just errors (or oversights/retcons?). It's a big ass book, from all accounts he wrote it fairly quickly (as he seemed to indicate that he did the bulk of it while on set), and just generally I've found these really intense fan theories for various shows/movies/video games tend to add up to nothing.
You are not alone. Kind of dreading when the fan theory industry gets revved up during S3, especially given what's going on with Westworld.
WHAT IF nothing was just what it was at face value and was instead all some elaborate puzzle for no real reason??? Makes you think!
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Robot Butler
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Post by Robot Butler »

Driftwood wrote:
The Jumping Man wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks that any inconsistencies are just errors (or oversights/retcons?). It's a big ass book, from all accounts he wrote it fairly quickly (as he seemed to indicate that he did the bulk of it while on set), and just generally I've found these really intense fan theories for various shows/movies/video games tend to add up to nothing.
You are not alone. Kind of dreading when the fan theory industry gets revved up during S3, especially given what's going on with Westworld.
WHAT IF nothing was just what it was at face value and was instead all some elaborate puzzle for no real reason??? Makes you think!
I'm hoping it's all face value. I hope the mistakes are just mistakes and the retcons are just retcons. Personally, the idea of season 3 exploring alternate timelines sounds like a terrible idea. That's an episode of the Flash. And I like that.... when I'm watching Flash.

Just give me a new mystery with quirky characters that mixes horror and humor with mystical slant. That's Twin Peaks.
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Post by R B T »

What's going on with the timeline of FBI processing of the dossier? Cole has it on 7/17, he writes his interoffice memo and timeline almost three weeks later on 8/4, TP is supposed to start work on it on 8/5, but she doesn't write her introductory remarks until 8/28, meanwhile the Philadelphia office stamps Cole's timeline three weeks after he's written it, on 8/21, and then TP's closing letter has a date box which has been left blank. Additionally, whichever Dept in Philly stamped Cole's timeline checked off INDEXED, SERIALIZED, and FILED, but they failed to check off SEARCHED. Something seems a little off there.
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Nightsea
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Post by Nightsea »

Robot Butler wrote:I'm perfectly fine letting this book be its own thing. It doesn't change how I look at the original series or color my expectations of new the series. I'm not looking for clues. I'm not interested in reinterpreting it.

It's just sorta.... there.

I like it well enough for the most part, but I think it's going down as a footnote in Twin Peaks history. I think a year from now, most of us will have stopped thinking about it.

For the most part, I'm in agreement. Also, I have a strong feeling that this book, in its current form, isn't what Frost originally intended. Especially given that it was initially touted as a bridge between the old and new season(s), I feel that a good chunk of material pertaining directly to the new storyline was intentionally withheld (both to make more money at a later date with a theoretical second volume and to not give anything away for the new series). As of right now, I think the book takes baby steps toward the introduction of an alternate timeline for Twin Peaks– something that like it or not– will probably factor in with the new episodes. This notion would've been more clear had some season three material remained intact within the book's context. I feel that's a big part of the reason why the book has triggered so much confusion about supposed mistakes and continuity errors– an alternate timeline would've been more clear if substantial season three material had been included. It would've allowed for a wider scope. Especially considering that this is the first material (not counting The Missing Pieces) that we've been exposed to since the show's demise, the alternate version of events as told through a non-traditional/mixed collage narrative simply comes across as confusing.

The book doesn't hold up on its own in that regard. I like the book–it's beautiful. Mark Frost is a great writer. Time and care went into it, and it gives a deeper observation of characters we already know and love while answering a few cliffhangers. But it's a novelty item for us. Which is fine. Not what I was hoping for, but I still enjoy it for what it is. A beautiful Twin Peaks coffee table book.

Who is the target audience for the book? I imagine that Frost and the powers that be wanted as wide of an audience as possible. As of right now, for the casual person picking up the book, it retcons some of the weaker elements of season two. There are probably a lot of people out there (more than we think) who haven't watched the series since it originally aired, and for them, they may just take the retcons at face value and accept them as new continuity. For those of us who follow the series more closely, it retcons those elements, but it also creates confusion during the interim between now and the airing of the new episodes. That may not necessarily be a bad thing in the long run. On the whole it's not meant to be taken that seriously. It just needs to be entertaining.

Over the span of the last year or so, posters have mentioned the possibility of alternate timelines coming into play. I never put much stock in it, but now– with the book in hand, I can definitely see a season three where two different timelines converge together. Many moons ago, in a random post, I brought up that I thought Laura and Dale were going to end up saving one another somehow. That idea fits snuggly into the alternate timeline angle. But who knows!? I may be completely off base. Alas, I don't know that there will be a happy ending to Twin Peaks... maybe a bittersweet one.
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Post by laughingpinecone »

I'd like to see a poll breaking down how many people loved the book to bits, how many sort of enjoyed it and how many disliked it.

About the alternate timelines theories: one thing that, imho, seems to throw a wrench in the possibility of having two timelines intersect and communicate is that... they're just there. There doesn't seem to be a watershed event, no "Laura is alive" scenario, no meaningful difference aside from Annie's disappearance (but with all due respect to the butterfly effect, I'd like to know how Annie's disappearance would change stuff like the Palmer's background).
For this reason, and of course Lynch being Lynch, I don't think it's gonna be this simple and clear-cut.
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Post by Specialagentjeffries »

I understood from Mark's initial interviews about the Twin Peaks continuation that the Season 3 "skeleton" idea was Frost's and that Lynch liked it and joined the trip. So maybe the story is not as Lynchian as we may think (though i'm sure he remoulded it quite a bit) and closer to TSHOTP than we might think? Do i remember correctly?
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Post by DirkG »

Specialagentjeffries wrote:I understood from Mark's initial interviews about the Twin Peaks continuation that the Season 3 "skeleton" idea was Frost's and that Lynch liked it and joined the trip. So maybe the story is not as Lynchian as we may think (though i'm sure he remoulded it quite a bit) and closer to TSHOTP than we might think? Do i remember correctly?

Yes according to Frost it was him that pitched the idea that they could set it 25 years later with the same actors ( in contrast to other options like reboots etc.) and Lynch reacted with strong enthusiasm to that suggestion.
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Post by Cappy »

Just finished the book last week. Some thoughts on Annie / Norma's family issues:

- If Annie no longer exists or is forgotten by the characters, this is hardly a new phenomenon. I was always a little puzzled by the last episode of Twin Peaks, where Annie has been kidnapped and taken to the Black Lodge, yet Norma is seen smiling and in a general celebratory mood with Ed (well, before Nadine comes to anyway). Very strange behavior for a sister, no? Also, Shelly is seen joking with Bobby at the Double R (where Annie worked), even re-enacting dialogue from the first episode with Heidi. Like time is re-setting itself to before Annie's arrival in Twin Peaks. If anything, these discrepancies (or just curiosities) from the final episode just made me appreciate the obvious continuity issues in Secret History even more.

- Norma's maiden name is apparently Lindstrom. I always assumed her maiden name was Blackburn, as that is/was Annie's last name. A rough translation of Lind+strom from german gives us "gentle electricity". "Gentle electricity" might not be the exact opposite of a "black burn", but it's interesting to consider the duality between the two continuities.

- If Norma has two possible families / family histories, is it possible there is something at play here like the Tremonds/Chalfonts? Maybe she has one family, and they switch into some Lodge-connected counterparts? Which might not work, because characters(Donna) noticed the discrepancy between the real Tremonds and their Lodge counterparts. And it would beg the question of which family is Norma's real family, and which are the Lodge counterparts. Just a theory though.
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Post by JumpingMan »

So are we now wondering if Annie is not what she seems?

Could she have been a lodge agent all along? Maybe the white lodge
??
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Post by laughingpinecone »

JumpingMan wrote:So are we now wondering if Annie is not what she seems?

Could she have been a lodge agent all along? Maybe the white lodge
??
With a surname like "black burn" and a suicidal rape victim background to match? Looks like a target of malevolent Lodge spirits to me, same as everyone else - and, imho, that's part of what made her and Coop click so easily. In MLMT, he's easily drawn to a number of similar unfortunate figures.

... ..... ...although *tips tinhat* (no seriously, this is well past coherent theorizing, just... thoughts) there's something odd about both newly revealed brothers. One (Jacoby) is a walking time paradox. The other (Truman) is the socially adjusted clone of the character we knew. Maybe there IS a supernatural thread connecting all these weird siblings.
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Cappy
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Post by Cappy »

On the topic of siblings just appearing and disappearing from the ether, it's probably worth mention that Donna is not mentioned in this book. Maybe this is a stretch, as there would be no real need for the Archivist to mention her. But it's easy to imagine Gersten Hayward (Alicia Witt) pretending like she doesn't have an older sister in the new series, given the way it's shaping up so far.

It will also be interesting to see whether or not Johnny Horne shows up. Eddie Vedder's star turn, perhaps?
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asmahan
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Post by asmahan »

JumpingMan wrote:So are we now wondering if Annie is not what she seems?

Could she have been a lodge agent all along? Maybe the white lodge
??
Perhaps Annie will be season three's Judy? Unseen and sparsely referenced to, but hinted at being a part of an event that impact the timeline?
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Post by Audrey Horne »

It's interesting to note that Annie has been essentially erased in the finale... With the examples of Norma and the Double R scenes, and even Annie herself vaporizing in the Red Room. However, we then have Truman shouting her name when she and Coooer reappear in the Grove. So I'm not sure if existence has been wiped out, but instead perhaps as a civilian who's traveled to this classified dimension, her identity must be covered up in the dossier.
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Post by Nightsea »

laughingpinecone wrote:There doesn't seem to be a watershed event, no "Laura is alive" scenario... and of course Lynch being Lynch, I don't think it's gonna be this simple and clear-cut.
We haven't seen the last of a living, breathing Laura Palmer I imagine.

If any sort of alternate timeline scenario crops up, I'm hoping for a puzzle with layers upon layers that never really lends itself to one particular "correct" interpretation. Maybe the structure of the new episodes will just be a natural outgrowth of where Lynch was headed with Mulholland Drive, Inland Empire, and Lost Highway.

@ Audrey Horne and asmahan, I had never really thought about that before– how Annie isn't touched upon in certain finale scenes. The Double R scene is understandable... just a goofy moment, but in regard to Norma... yes, it seems like she would've been more distressed. I'm curious as to if Caroline will be alive and well in the new episodes...
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