The Secret History of Twin Peaks

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Agent Earle
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Post by Agent Earle »

laughingpinecone wrote:I don't really see how Lynch reading the book affects the project either way. The book was written with full knowledge of the new season, not the other way round, so...?

Anyway... You know how Frost keeps saying that the subjective nature of memories is the main drive behind the inconsistencies, right? I always thought he meant it as a... surrealistic hyperbole, if you will. Like the book exaggerates the unreliability of memories by casting doubt over even the most objective data (eg, Norma's mother and maiden name, which are furthermore 'verified' by another character whose very role is to double-check all this stuff). It's an effective surrealistic narrative device, I thought. Very fitting for Twin Peaks, well done.
...well, the more I read recent interviews to cast and crew about the production of the old show, with all their mysteries and contradictions, the less it sounds like hyperbole at all :oops: :lol:
I'm curious. What does it sound like?
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Post by laughingpinecone »

Agent Earle wrote:
laughingpinecone wrote:I don't really see how Lynch reading the book affects the project either way. The book was written with full knowledge of the new season, not the other way round, so...?

Anyway... You know how Frost keeps saying that the subjective nature of memories is the main drive behind the inconsistencies, right? I always thought he meant it as a... surrealistic hyperbole, if you will. Like the book exaggerates the unreliability of memories by casting doubt over even the most objective data (eg, Norma's mother and maiden name, which are furthermore 'verified' by another character whose very role is to double-check all this stuff). It's an effective surrealistic narrative device, I thought. Very fitting for Twin Peaks, well done.
...well, the more I read recent interviews to cast and crew about the production of the old show, with all their mysteries and contradictions, the less it sounds like hyperbole at all :oops: :lol:
I'm curious. What does it sound like?
Like straight-up Rashomon... as the old meme goes, what ARE facts, we just don't know.
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Post by 4815162342 »

sneakydave wrote:
4815162342 wrote:Norma change and Miss Twin Peaks change all point to Annie doesn't exist anymore. I am very pleased that Lynch didn't read the book, though.
Why does that fact make you happy?

Just out of interest.....
It means that the book is 100% Frost's take on the mythology, and Lynch had no input at all. It opens the door for a new season with, little to no aliens, let's say.
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Post by sneakydave »

Well you could point to the fact that season 3 was written before the book. So Frost could be laying the groundwork for stuff to come in the new season of the show.

Although, for me, the point of the book was to suggest that the alien stuff was a cover for something much more ancient and mysterious that we have zero to very little understanding of. That would lead us right back to the Black Lodge.
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Post by Rainwater »

4815162342 wrote:
sneakydave wrote:
4815162342 wrote:Norma change and Miss Twin Peaks change all point to Annie doesn't exist anymore. I am very pleased that Lynch didn't read the book, though.
Why does that fact make you happy?

Just out of interest.....
It means that the book is 100% Frost's take on the mythology, and Lynch had no input at all. It opens the door for a new season with, little to no aliens, let's say.
I haven't read the book, but, as laughingpinecone and sneakydave already said, it was written after the series, so I don't quite see your point. I also think, again, not actually having read the book, other than a few excerpts, that, just as in Season 2, there are no "aliens" - it's simply a misguided interpretation of spirit phenomena by certain characters and government agencies that have an interest in these occurrences.
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Post by Pöllö »

Rainwater wrote:
4815162342 wrote:
sneakydave wrote:
Why does that fact make you happy?

Just out of interest.....
It means that the book is 100% Frost's take on the mythology, and Lynch had no input at all. It opens the door for a new season with, little to no aliens, let's say.
I haven't read the book, but, as laughingpinecone and sneakydave already said, it was written after the series, so I don't quite see your point. I also think, again, not actually having read the book, other than a few excerpts, that, just as in Season 2, there are no "aliens" - it's simply a misguided interpretation of spirit phenomena by certain characters and government agencies that have an interest in these occurrences.
Yes, correct. I still didn't personally enjoy the book tho, lol.

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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Post by Rainwater »

Pöllö wrote:
Rainwater wrote:
4815162342 wrote:
It means that the book is 100% Frost's take on the mythology, and Lynch had no input at all. It opens the door for a new season with, little to no aliens, let's say.
I haven't read the book, but, as laughingpinecone and sneakydave already said, it was written after the series, so I don't quite see your point. I also think, again, not actually having read the book, other than a few excerpts, that, just as in Season 2, there are no "aliens" - it's simply a misguided interpretation of spirit phenomena by certain characters and government agencies that have an interest in these occurrences.
Yes, correct. I still didn't personally enjoy the book tho, lol.

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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Post by Mr. Reindeer »

Rainwater wrote: I also think, again, not actually having read the book, other than a few excerpts, that, just as in Season 2, there are no "aliens" - it's simply a misguided interpretation of spirit phenomena by certain characters and government agencies that have an interest in these occurrences.
That is a legitimate interpretation of the book (Mark makes it pretty clear that "greys" are likely a manifestation of the evil Lodge spirits, or at least something related to them -- one could argue that the "grey" appearance and the many UFO sightings are simply the Lodge spirits assuming these forms as misdirection). But even if that was Mark's point, the obvious question is: Why? I enjoyed the book, but the series already played the "military is chasing UFOs and finds something more sinister in the woods at home" angle. Why spend an entire book revisiting that theme, and expend page upon page reiterating much-covered UFO lore in the process? I don't want aliens to be part of the new season, but I have to assume there's more to it, or Mark choosing this particular subject matter to dominate the vast majority of the book makes very little sense.
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Post by dronerstone »

I suppose the "aliens" part would be hit or miss.

I don't want TP to fall too much into X-Files territory, but I highly doubt this will happen - I trust Lynch/Frost on this. If there's aliens in S3, it'll most probably still satisfy.
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Post by laughingpinecone »

What I got out of the aliens/occultism narrative is an overview of the several, sometimes opposed organizations and even individuals who are after various kinds of supernatural occurrences.

Now, Coop has been confirmed to be sort of an X-File in and by himself: wherever he goes, supernatural accidents follow. It's central to MLMT and explicitly mentioned in TSHOTP. That goes double, pun intended, after the s2 finale.

So I wouldn't be surprised if he (bad Dale, good Dale, BOB+Dale, whatever, will the real Dale Cooper please stand up) were to be targeted by such organizations and/or individuals. That could be a plot connection.

The aliens/occultism narrative also mentions other places with a concentration of supernatural shenanigans similar to Glastonberry Grove. Those could be part of the out-of-town plot(s).
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Post by dronerstone »

I suppose we could be in for some more good/bad Coop jokes and mischief in S3, this time not only in the lodge.
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Post by sneakydave »

laughingpinecone wrote:What I got out of the aliens/occultism narrative is an overview of the several, sometimes opposed organizations and even individuals who are after various kinds of supernatural occurrences.

Now, Coop has been confirmed to be sort of an X-File in and by himself: wherever he goes, supernatural accidents follow. It's central to MLMT and explicitly mentioned in TSHOTP. That goes double, pun intended, after the s2 finale.

So I wouldn't be surprised if he (bad Dale, good Dale, BOB+Dale, whatever, will the real Dale Cooper please stand up) were to be targeted by such organizations and/or individuals. That could be a plot connection.

The aliens/occultism narrative also mentions other places with a concentration of supernatural shenanigans similar to Glastonberry Grove. Those could be part of the out-of-town plot(s).
I agree with this.

After reading the book I felt that they were definitely setting up the narrative of the two opposing factions (illuminati and the freemasons) having an interest in the occult and supernatural shenanigans. I feel this will play some role in the new season. I also feel the portal they speak of in the desert will be somewhere in there.
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Post by N. Needleman »

As I've said before, I don't really buy into the whole Chosen One thing for Cooper. I don't agree that the Cooper of the books is presented as being explicitly chosen by anything for any sort of sinister or supernatural purpose, and I know some other folks have talked about this in the past but I don't think it was a scheme by BOB since he was a child. I think Cooper consciously sought the mysteries of the universe out and became entangled in them on his own, after some formative experiences where he ran afoul of the strange. I don't invalidate those experiences, but I do not think they were by design.

I don't think Cooper was targeted by dark forces or that his presence in TP is part of a dark conspiracy by the evil spirits - I just don't think the way BOB or the Lodge works is that schematic or conventional, I think those beings are far more instinctive and unknowable. The whole idea that Coop is some sort of pawn in some grand design feels much more like a more conventional/nerd media track we now see constantly in either sci-fi shows or stories or comic books we've seen since Twin Peaks. It's like Mulder on The X-Files, where suddenly he was not only the son of one of the conspirators or the brother of an abductee but also the godhead chosen to save the world with some sort of embarrassing Native American prophecy about his newly mutated DNA. How much can you pile on? It becomes bad fanfic, but it's also the kind of thing so many shows since Peaks have trafficked in to make their heroes 'super special'. Everyone is suddenly the Chosen One and super-important as opposed to making a personal stand in their life on their own. TP never had to try so hard.

It's entirely possible the new season might reveal a greater hand at work in Cooper's life, I've no idea. I'd roll with it if they did provided it's done well. I just don't think that thus far it jibes with what Lynch or Frost have chosen to put onscreen.
Last edited by N. Needleman on Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Post by Ross »

Agree with everything Needleman says above.
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Post by laughingpinecone »

Colonel Milford confided in me that Cooper’s
presence here--and his association with secret allies
of the colonel’s--signaled a raising of the ante of
our stated mission. Our zone had suddenly gone
hot; the data I was monitoring went from zero to
sixty. Strange phenomena--of the sort frequently
encountered by the colonel throughout his life--
cropped up with regularity, registering seismically
on my instrumentation. From the start, Cooper
himself experienced turbulent phenomena:
sightings in the woods, mysterious encounters,
troubling dreams. A wave of darkness that
threatened to engulf us had awoken.
And then the "Cooper... Cooper... Cooper" message, Garland interpreting it as a sign of the identity of his new control and realizing too late that it was, conversely, a warning.

Dovetails nicely with MLMT pleasantries such as
March 17, 12 P.M.

Have spent the last two hours with Betty. She showed me her scars and talked of how the world was going to burn. She seems to accept me, though she believes I am an avenging angel who has been sent to destroy her.
and
January 25, 11 P.M.

A strange incident happened tonight. After dinner I went into the courtyard and sat down across from the old man, and I told him that I had heard he was a very good teacher. The old man said that was true, and then looked into my face for a moment and said the words la muerte. Then he stood up and started to leave. I followed him, seeking an explanation, and got one as he turned into a dark alley.

"There is death in your face, I can teach you nothing."
and
January 20, 1969, 8 P.M.

Have been sick for some time and did not feel like talking much. An infection spread through my lungs and I felt very weak for a long time. Had the dream of the Man several more times, but did not let him in the door.
off the top of my head.
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