The Secret History of Twin Peaks

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Agent Earle
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Postby Agent Earle » Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:18 pm

Well, Needleman's lengthy explanation and MLMT stuff are at odds with each other fo' sure.
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Postby Agent Earle » Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:19 pm

Make that MLMT and The Secret History of Twin Peaks stuff.
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N. Needleman
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Postby N. Needleman » Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:35 pm

Agent Earle wrote:Well, Needleman's lengthy explanation and MLMT stuff are at odds with each other fo' sure.


Well, don't have a Fright, buddy. ;) It's only my lengthy opinion, and I stand by it. I don't think they're at odds at all.

As Lynch has pointed out more than once, the books are their own thing. The actual canon tends to be a synthesis of several minds, predominantly Lynch and Frost's, and certain stuff in between the lines of what's onscreen sort of waxes and wanes in prominence. That's just the way the show and its mythology work.

But let's deal in the texts themselves. What's actually evident in the text of TSHOTP? That the spirits in the woods took notice of Cooper upon arrival - yes, we knew that from the show since Episode 2. He is a self-taught mystic attuned to the universe who is searching for the truth beyond the methods of the normal investigator or explorer. That's not disputed; what's disputed here is how different people choose to read it. Personally all I see in that the text is that the spirits became interested in Cooper, which we know; I don't see that it's part of some grand overarching scheme involving him. If you believe that's what at work, then of course you're going to add any strange instance in Cooper's life to a pile of facts which you believe support a subjective theory. It's just not a theory I buy into, and it is subjective.

And no, I don't and have never seen any of the above passages from MLMT as an indicator of some larger cosmic latticework involving Cooper and the Black Lodge or the supernatural trying to ensnare him. Again, what's actually explicitly evident in MLMT? That these strange events happened? Yes, we know that. But what you ascribe to them is your subjective interpretation. There is no Word of God about this, and it's only in the last few years I've seen people claiming it really has to mean this, which I consider antithetical to TP in general. And the book's been out 20 years, so clearly there's several schools of thought well before now.

Personally, I think he found those things on his own, and that they are what they are - strange, unexplainable, terrible, wonderful, maybe connected to something deeper in him or the spirit world, maybe just evocative of them. I do think some of those episodes indicate foresight of his fate, as per the nonlinear spirit messages or visitations to people which we see appear both in the series and FWWM (not just Cooper, but Laura, Maddy, Donna, etc) - but premonition is not indicative of grand scheme. I think Cooper can have come across damaged or supernaturally-touched people or things without it being about a larger design re: him by the Lodge, and I think those experiences are - as I said before in my prior post - what helped drive Coop towards becoming a mystic and an explorer of the universe's mysteries. I think that is what the bulk of MLMT illustrates; the events that made him the man he is when he comes to Twin Peaks. What you make of those events is open to interpretation. The universe clearly becomes as interested in Cooper as he is in it. But that doesn't make it a conspiracy.

YMMV, but it can be very clearly read both ways. There is no definitive answer or explanation. I don't begrudge people their opinion, I just have a problem with claiming something is inviolate and above discussion, that it's definitely what is happening when it's clearly not definite and hasn't been since the book's publication.
Last edited by N. Needleman on Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Mace
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Postby Mace » Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:54 pm

^This.

And especially this
v

"YMMV, but it can be very clearly read both ways. There is no definitive answer or explanation."
Agent Earle
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Postby Agent Earle » Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:58 pm

Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree, then. I think the passage in MLMT about the long-haired man trying to get Coop to "let him in" is a little too close a description of Bob and his methods for comfort and something you can't just do away with "it's only a coincidence". Of course, there's the matter of which of the TP-related works does one except as cannon and which one does not except, but I'd prefer to let this issue be at rest as it'll only stir up arguments again (people are obviously very protective of those segments/parts/works of the TP saga they, for whatever reason, hold especially dear to their heart).

As to who will be proven right come Season Three, I'd say your guess is as good as mine...
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N. Needleman
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Postby N. Needleman » Thu Feb 02, 2017 1:14 pm

I'm familiar with the BOB passage. I like it but I was more keen on it as a kid than I am today, as I think it treads a bit close to Star Wars territory (and I love Star Wars).

I don't discount it as canonical, but I do think there's a difference between BOB's predatory hunger taking him everywhere and anywhere in the world (including to somewhere close to Cooper) vs. some sort of great scheme where BOB is some intrinsic part of Cooper's life. I just don't believe the latter tack is supported by anything else in the show.
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Postby Ross » Thu Feb 02, 2017 1:36 pm

Agent Earle wrote:Make that MLMT and The Secret History of Twin Peaks stuff.

Secret History is at odds with countless things on the show though.
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Agent Earle
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Postby Agent Earle » Thu Feb 02, 2017 2:27 pm

Ross wrote:
Agent Earle wrote:Make that MLMT and The Secret History of Twin Peaks stuff.

Secret History is at odds with countless things on the show though.


Don't I know it. Still, regarding the cryptic message (supposedly from outer space) Major Briggs delivered to Cooper (in episode 9, if I'm not mistaken?), I find it uncannily accurate. The book's also quite clear about the message's purpose, something the show wasn't, and I find it hard to believe Frost cleared this up without a reason - that is, I think it'll play an important role in the upcoming episodes and I'm very eager to see where they'll go with it. It's also one of my favorite parts from the show and the fact that it's so underexplained makes me love it even more. Well, I guess some explanations are coming after all...
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secretlettermkr
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Postby secretlettermkr » Thu Feb 02, 2017 4:07 pm

the message is not from outter space... its from the woods
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Postby Agent Earle » Thu Feb 02, 2017 5:35 pm

secretlettermkr wrote:the message is not from outter space... its from the woods


Yeah, I'm aware of that. That's why I said "supposedly". If you remember the scene from the original series, Briggs presented it as a line of communication he decoded from "deep space monitors, aimed at galaxies beyond our own".
Last edited by Agent Earle on Fri Feb 03, 2017 7:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
hoodedman
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Postby hoodedman » Thu Feb 02, 2017 9:32 pm

Lynch made it quite clear that this is Mark's book and Mark's interpretation of the history of Twin Peaks - not his.
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Postby Agent Earle » Fri Feb 03, 2017 7:14 am

hoodedman wrote:Lynch made it quite clear that this is Mark's book and Mark's interpretation of the history of Twin Peaks - not his.


The scene in question has nothing to do with the so-called history of Twin Peaks (as in dealing with a larger historical background connected with/to the town of Twin Peaks that's the gist of Frost's book). It's another look at the famous scene from the original TV show. I'd be very surprised if it'd turn out Lynch doesn't care about that as well. I think this particular scene is way too important main protagonist-wise for Frost to tamper with it without any consideration of what is to come (make that - what he and Lynch cooked up) in the new series.
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N. Needleman
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Postby N. Needleman » Fri Feb 03, 2017 8:52 am

I love the book, but DKL said outright at the press conference a few weeks ago that he hasn't read it and is not interested in it.
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Pöllö
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Postby Pöllö » Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:10 am

So is the book canon or not? Lol.
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Ross
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Postby Ross » Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:35 am

Pöllö wrote:So is the book canon or not? Lol.

Personally- it's not for me since it contradicts a huge chunk of the show. But we'll see how S3 unfolds.
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