'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

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Ashok
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Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby Ashok » Wed Nov 01, 2017 7:38 am

I really enjoyed TFD. What I found most interesting is that Preston's research was still based on Laura being killed by BOB/Leland. And she's never seen Agent Cooper or Diane since Coop went into the boiler room. So if I'm interpreting this correctly, Cooper's 430 mile trip occurred in a second "Laura disappears" timeline which now seems to be influencing the original "Laura was killed" timeline after Season 3 ended.
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Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby Methedrome » Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:46 am

We still don't know what happened to Little Nicky!!!

Seriously, I liked the book and it gave answers. Did not expect that.

I actually felt a sense of closure now.

It's also clear from the book where Frost begins and Lynch ends.

The whole book almost reads like a draft or storyboard of season 3.
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Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby Calderon » Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:49 am

Ashok wrote:I really enjoyed TFD. What I found most interesting is that Preston's research was still based on Laura being killed by BOB/Leland. And she's never seen Agent Cooper or Diane since Coop went into the boiler room. So if I'm interpreting this correctly, Cooper's 430 mile trip occurred in a second "Laura disappears" timeline which now seems to be influencing the original "Laura was killed" timeline after Season 3 ended.


Me too. I think Frost cleverly solved some of the mysteries while keeping most of them alive. And I don't get the criticism for possibly retconning Laura's death, which he has clearly not. He just opens up the possibility for alternate timelines and realities.
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Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby squealy » Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:57 am

Manwith wrote:
squealy wrote:
Manwith wrote:The book seems to indicate Steven and Becky both survived, if so that's a dumb way to resolve a cliffhanger on screen. Weird.

I thought the book said Steven disappeared? I assumed that meant his body wasn’t found.



It doesn't make sense for Steven's body to not be found if he was dead. The character played by Frost was telling the character played by Harry Dean Stanton (sorry, blanking on the names) about seeing Steven in the woods with a gun on the walking path. Steven did not fire the gun in an isolated location.

So unless there was some sort of crazy supernatural intervention or Donna's sister hid the body while high or something it would seem Steven is alive. Unless Steven survived then committed suicide or was murdered later that day, which seems convoluted though in Twin Peaks anything is possible...

Well, I guess what I should be saying is, while the book doesn't say he's dead it doesn't definitively say he survived either.
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Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby squealy » Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:00 am

Manwith wrote:
kerplooey wrote:
HagbardCeline wrote:This is hard confirmation as well that Cooper did indeed change history. Sort of undercuts the whole purpose of the show IMO. Ah well.



Why was Ronette still attacked?


If I had to make up a reason, I'd say Leeland thought Ronette was partying with Laura, forces his way in like before, then sees Laura is not there but Bob decides to hurt Ronette instead since he's in the mood to hurt someone.

And then Frost talks about Leo, Jacques and Ronette going to the train car.... Leo and Jacques never went to the train car! He doesn't know his own story.

Plus, if Cooper changed history, it should affect Tammy and the other FBI characters too, not just the people from Twin Peaks. What a mess.
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Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby The Jumping Man » Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:14 am

it should affect Tammy and the other FBI characters too


Well, Jeffries did say Cole would remember the unofficial version. And by the end of the book, Tammy's memories are fogging.
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Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby squealy » Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:23 am

The Jumping Man wrote:
it should affect Tammy and the other FBI characters too


Well, Jeffries did say Cole would remember the unofficial version. And by the end of the book, Tammy's memories are fogging.

She conveniently remembers Laura's death long enough that she can note the discrepancy in the dossier...
My feeling is, if history is changed it should change immediately for everyone.
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Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby The Jumping Man » Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:29 am

I'm not going to defend the book too much, but in this case I would argue that time travel isn't a real thing, and if you use it in your fiction you get to decide on the rules for it.
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Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby Manwith » Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:45 am

The Jumping Man wrote:I'm not going to defend the book too much, but in this case I would argue that time travel isn't a real thing, and if you use it in your fiction you get to decide on the rules for it.


This makes sense I suppose.

There is actually a branch of philosophy which states what sort of time travel is philosophically coherent or not, but there's no reason to think that a work of fiction has to follow philosophic principles. One could argue a depiction of time travel is stupid on philosophical grounds, but that's not a common way to evaluate fiction...
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Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby Manwith » Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:49 am

squealy wrote:Leo and Jacques never went to the train car!


This is why it's funny when people on other threads are arguing that tiny continuity glitches have deep meanings, or over analyzing decisions made in the editing room.

The show's creators are not super-fans and probably care less about details than the super-fans do.
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Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby The Jumping Man » Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:34 am

Also this is not scientific time travel (in a flux capacitor way), but rather supernatural time travel on a show where time has already been shown to operate strangely, so it's easier for me to give that a pass.

Sloppy internal inconsistencies bother me more, like when he has Evil Coop recovering in the hospital (following his "slip" in the bathroom) at one point and a few pages later it says he recovered at the hotel.
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Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby Manwith » Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:48 am

One problem with the time travel in the show is it is not consistent. The original show and fire walk with me have time travel neither effect present nor future, events happen once and only once so Annie can give Laura a message through time but everything plays out the same, like, fate. Cooper tries to warn Laura away in FWWM but fails, time can't be changed.

Then in the new show time can be changed. Which is kind of interesting, but undermines the earlier time travel scenes when Cooper and Laura share a dream but neither future nor past are effected.

The original show's use of time travel is more clever and meticulous instead of the "anything goes" depiction of time travel in The Return.
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Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby Manwith » Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:00 am

Am I the only one who is convinced Bobby or Shelly killed Leo? The cops didn't know that Windom Earle left Leo alive so there was no probable cause to charge them. Also Shelly had no way of knowing Leo wasn't evil anymore since he had tried to kill her last they met.

I can't figure out how they located Leo in the woods but Leo had it coming and they had motive. Bobby seems the most likely person to track Leo down. He's already murdered a man before, and he'd be defending his girlfriend, plus Leo really did have it coming. I like the idea a lot that Windom Earle didn't kill Leo, but Leo was a scumbag with so many enemies it's not surprising someone killed him.
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Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby The Jumping Man » Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:18 am

I figured it was Evil Coop, given the "Bureau stance" or whatever it is Albert cites.
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Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby dkenny78 » Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:37 am

Manwith wrote:Am I the only one who is convinced Bobby or Shelly killed Leo? The cops didn't know that Windom Earle left Leo alive so there was no probable cause to charge them. Also Shelly had no way of knowing Leo wasn't evil anymore since he had tried to kill her last they met.

I can't figure out how they located Leo in the woods but Leo had it coming and they had motive. Bobby seems the most likely person to track Leo down. He's already murdered a man before, and he'd be defending his girlfriend, plus Leo really did have it coming. I like the idea a lot that Windom Earle didn't kill Leo, but Leo was a scumbag with so many enemies it's not surprising someone killed him.


Eh, I can't see Bobby or Shelly going through with it. They don't even seem to be that concerned with Leo by the end of season 2, other than as an irritating obstacle to obtaining a marriage. I don't think it was Windom either. Makes no sense why he'd go through the trouble of rigging that spider trap if only to shoot Leo moments later. My money's on Cooper's Double. My guess is that, after he checked out of the hospital, he tracked down Windom Earle's cabin to see what research Earle left behind about the lodges, Glastonbury Grove, Joudy, etc. Poor Leo was likely just caught at the wrong place at the wrong time.

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