'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Moderators: Annie, BookhouseBoyBob, Ross, Jerry Horne, Brad D

fearltd
Posts: 47
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2014 4:14 pm

Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby fearltd » Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:53 am

dkenny78 wrote:
Manwith wrote:Am I the only one who is convinced Bobby or Shelly killed Leo? The cops didn't know that Windom Earle left Leo alive so there was no probable cause to charge them. Also Shelly had no way of knowing Leo wasn't evil anymore since he had tried to kill her last they met.

I can't figure out how they located Leo in the woods but Leo had it coming and they had motive. Bobby seems the most likely person to track Leo down. He's already murdered a man before, and he'd be defending his girlfriend, plus Leo really did have it coming. I like the idea a lot that Windom Earle didn't kill Leo, but Leo was a scumbag with so many enemies it's not surprising someone killed him.


Eh, I can't see Bobby or Shelly going through with it. They don't even seem to be that concerned with Leo by the end of season 2, other than as an irritating obstacle to obtaining a marriage. I don't think it was Windom either. Makes no sense why he'd go through the trouble of rigging that spider trap if only to shoot Leo moments later. My money's on Cooper's Double. My guess is that, after he checked out of the hospital, he tracked down Windom Earle's cabin to see what research Earle left behind about the lodges, Glastonbury Grove, Joudy, etc. Poor Leo was likely just caught at the wrong place at the wrong time.


That's what I would imagine as well. The fact that Albert specifically mentions a "Bureau stance" to me is Frost, as the author, strongly implying it.

I'd like to imagine The Double flatly saying "Leo - is that short for Leonard?" before shooting him :lol:
dkenny78
Posts: 109
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2016 7:36 am

Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby dkenny78 » Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:24 pm

Just finished the book and, on a whole, I found it a lot more enjoyable than THE SECRET HISTORY. While I admire Frost's attempts in that first book at sticking to the epistolary format, I much prefer a more straightforward, chronological narrative, which is more in line with what we're getting in TFD (though there are obviously epistolary elements to TFD, they are much less pronounced).

On the positive side, it's clear Frost still has a special affection for Albert and the Log Lady, and the sections where we hear from those characters are highlights. It's impossible for me to read those passages and not hear Ferrer and Coulson's voices, and it's a very nice tribute to the late performers. I'm plea sed Big Ed and Norma finally found happiness, and, though I may be alone in this, I actually think Annie's fate is pretty note-perfect.

But there are quite a few things that really bug me. On a minor note, it's annoying that Frost repeatedly mentions the events of the original series taking place in 1989, but then plays fast and loose with the chronology after that. Donna leaves home after graduating in 1989 and...suddenly it's 1992? The events of the return take place 25 years after Cooper gets trapped in the Black Lodge (in 1989, so it should be 2014) but Tammy's investigation takes place in 2017?

The explanation for the discrepancy involving Norma's mother really annoys me, and make me wish it had been an honest mistake instead of the convoluted retcon we got. For me, there's simply no way to reconcile the mildly disparaging, passive-aggressive Vivian of the show with the cruel sociopath TFD suggests. And the explanation that Norma 'politely introduced her as her mother' makes even less sense - Norma outright addressed her as 'Mother' when other characters weren't even present! The timeline is also screwed up. Vivian met/married Ernie before Annie went into convent, years before the events of the original series, and yet, when she arrives in Twin Peaks, she introduces Ernie as her 'new husband.' I think a much simpler way to connect Norma, Annie, and Vivian could be devised, while also addressing the errors in THE SECRET HISTORY.

But to me, the biggest issue is the whole notion is that the events of the original series played out nearly the same even if Laura was never killed. Why would Ronette still have been attacked if Laura wasn't present? Are Jacques and Maddy still alive now? If Leland is still alive a year later, then presumably BOB is still in him and therefore couldn't have taken possession of Cooper's doppleganger at the end of S2 ('The Return' implies only one person can 'be with BOB' at any given time). I would have much preferred it if the events of Part 17/Part 18 produced an entirely different alternate history but, hey, I'm still glad we got something after all these years.
User avatar
bowisneski
Posts: 212
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 11:51 am

Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby bowisneski » Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:36 pm

I posted this Variety interview with Mark over in the "Mark Frost's Contributions to TP:TR (Speculation)" thread, but figured this would be a good thread to share it as well.

EDIT:
There's also apparently an interview with Mark in Empire, but I can't find any reference to it anywhere except in this Screenrant article which quotes the following
“Cooper feels some sense of duty to undertake this last quest for Laura. He’s driven by it, and goes to great lengths to pursue it. And he encounters truly mortal danger, not just physically, but perhaps metaphysically. There are echoes of classic mythological themes. It’s Orpheus descending into the Underworld. You are playing with deep, profound, mysterious forces that will have unintended consequences. In the old mythology, as a mortal, to cross into the realm of what was thought of as the gods’, meant you risked everything. That’s what we’re seeing happen here.”
User avatar
TheArm
Posts: 540
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2007 2:27 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby TheArm » Wed Nov 01, 2017 6:15 pm

bowisneski wrote:I posted this Variety interview with Mark over in the "Mark Frost's Contributions to TP:TR (Speculation)" thread, but figured this would be a good thread to share it as well.

EDIT:
There's also apparently an interview with Mark in Empire, but I can't find any reference to it anywhere except in this Screenrant article which quotes the following
“Cooper feels some sense of duty to undertake this last quest for Laura. He’s driven by it, and goes to great lengths to pursue it. And he encounters truly mortal danger, not just physically, but perhaps metaphysically. There are echoes of classic mythological themes. It’s Orpheus descending into the Underworld. You are playing with deep, profound, mysterious forces that will have unintended consequences. In the old mythology, as a mortal, to cross into the realm of what was thought of as the gods’, meant you risked everything. That’s what we’re seeing happen here.”


It looks like the Mark Frost interview (along with Kyle) will be in the next issue: https://www.empireonline.com/movies/new ... amie-bell/
"Fire...walk...with...me...MEEE!!!"
User avatar
Agent Sam Stanley
Posts: 1009
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 2:04 pm

Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby Agent Sam Stanley » Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:16 pm

dkenny78 wrote:The explanation for the discrepancy involving Norma's mother really annoys me, and make me wish it had been an honest mistake instead of the convoluted retcon we got. For me, there's simply no way to reconcile the mildly disparaging, passive-aggressive Vivian of the show with the cruel sociopath TFD suggests. And the explanation that Norma 'politely introduced her as her mother' makes even less sense - Norma outright addressed her as 'Mother' when other characters weren't even present! The timeline is also screwed up. Vivian met/married Ernie before Annie went into convent, years before the events of the original series, and yet, when she arrives in Twin Peaks, she introduces Ernie as her 'new husband.' I think a much simpler way to connect Norma, Annie, and Vivian could be devised, while also addressing the errors in THE SECRET HISTORY.


Ugh, I know, Vivian's section of the book was maybe the worst to me. It was embarrasing to see Frost trying to correct his own mistakes and failing miserably.
And what about Annie keeping the surname Blackburn after the stepfather tried to rape her? She almost ended her life because of it, but "yeah, I like the sound of Blackburn, I'm keeping it".

And why was Richard Horne's father listed as "unknown" in the birth certificate? I thought JJW was Audrey's first sexual relation. A few weeks later she's pregnant, wouldn't be obvious he's the father? Audrey would rather say to people she has no idea who the father is? Ok :roll:
Unless the hospital staff found evidence she was raped during her coma and told her when she woke up. I can only imagine the doctor giving her the news :lol:

Anyway, Frost could've used this book to specify how DoppelCooper was able to rape a comatose patient in a hospital without anyone seeing it. Audrey had just been brought in to the hospital in critical condition, I don't think the staff would leave her unattended long enough for DoppleCoop to mess with her.
Last edited by Agent Sam Stanley on Fri Nov 03, 2017 12:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
N. Needleman
Posts: 2040
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:39 pm

Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby N. Needleman » Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:27 pm

The timeline is mostly intact/an alternate one or can be fixed, that's all I care about.
AnotherBlueRoseCase wrote:The Return is clearly guaranteed a future audience among stoners and other drug users.
User avatar
Troubbble
Posts: 171
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:55 am

Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby Troubbble » Thu Nov 02, 2017 3:56 am

How about the reveal that the young Girl from episode 8 was indeed Sarah Palmer? And that her middle name is Judith...

Also wondering why the Log Lady's name is given as Margaret Coulsen. Could that possibly just be a hideous mistake? Not sure what to make of it.
User avatar
zeronumber
Posts: 105
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 7:42 pm

Re: RE: Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby zeronumber » Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:49 am

Troubbble wrote:How about the reveal that the young Girl from episode 8 was indeed Sarah Palmer? And that her middle name is Judith...

Also wondering why the Log Lady's name is given as Margaret Coulsen. Could that possibly just be a hideous mistake? Not sure what to make of it.

This spoiler was headlined on the front Timeline page!

Uh thanks. No spoiler tag to protect it....and its out in the open.

Bummer!

Now i cant say as i blame you Troubbble , because maybe the Admin should have policed it...but on the other hand i do blame you. Sorry, but its bad medicine to spoil even if its inadvertant.

Onward.

Sent from my NEC-NE-201A1A using Tapatalk
User avatar
The Jumping Man
Posts: 179
Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2015 6:27 pm

Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby The Jumping Man » Thu Nov 02, 2017 5:12 am

This is a spoiler thread.

Wasn't Coulson given as Margaret's maiden name in The Secret History?
User avatar
FlyingSquirrel
Posts: 133
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 8:26 pm

Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby FlyingSquirrel » Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:02 am

Some initial thoughts and impressions:

  • It appears that Cooper did indeed change history, but in a way that didn't affect the Blue Rose agents. Maybe the effect is stronger the closer you are to Twin Peaks and/or to a Lodge portal in general? It seems like Tammy is starting to be affected before she leaves the town.
  • OTOH, I'm guessing that Cooper/Richard and Laura/Carrie are in fact in an alternate reality as opposed to this new version of history, unless we're to assume that it's near-future and Sarah has either moved away or died with the Chalfonts and Tremonds moving into the house. I know Cooper asks what year it is, but the technology doesn't look any different, and Carrie is around the age Laura would have been if she'd survived.
  • Tammy really has a lot of venom for Vivian Smith. She sounds like a terrible person, yes, but probably still not as bad as some of the people Tammy has encountered in her FBI career.
  • Still have a hard time reconciling some of these commentaries with what we saw in TPTR. I remain confused as to when the dossier review of TSHOTP took place. If it was before TPTR, then Tammy seems strangely ignorant of certain things she should have known about - IIRC, she knew nothing about Briggs or Jeffries when the two were first mentioned, and she didn't seem to know a whole lot about Cooper either. But if it took place after TPTR, then she is missing what should be the fairly obvious significance of some of what she's reviewing in light of what she knows by the end of the series.
  • She also implies that some of Cooper's taped transcripts might have been altered by tulpa-Diane, but tulpa-Diane was not created until DoppelCooper had already been on the loose for a while, so when would she have had the opportunity to do this? (Unless she went back and doctored old transcripts later, but wouldn't the Blue Rose team keep multiple copies of that sort of thing? They seem to have some idea that they're dealing with some very strange forces, especially after Desmond and Jeffries disappear.
  • Relieved to hear that Becky apparently was not killed and that Ben seems to have genuinely reformed and hasn't just been putting on an act.
  • What would Donna and Audrey have been exchanging letters about?
  • Whose corpse was used to take Major Briggs's place when he faked his death? Did Listening Post Alpha just keep some extra dead bodies around in case of the Mayday protocol being initiated?
  • Still not clear on why Cooper doesn't ask about Annie and has decided that he's in love with Diane when he reawakens, unless Annie has been interacting with the Lodges in her catatonic state and the two of them ended their relationship via supernatural communication.
  • Could DoppelCooper have convinced Audrey that he was the real Cooper and she thought she was consenting? It seems odd that she'd keep his picture if he had forcibly raped her, or if she knew he'd raped her in her sleep. (NOTE: I am not saying that the encounter wasn't still rape, just that Audrey might not have thought it was.)
  • There was a reference to some other drug dealer being killed during the events of the original series besides Leo Johnson, Jacques Renault, or Jean Renault. Are we supposed to know who this was? I'm drawing a blank unless it's Deputy Cliff.
User avatar
TheArm
Posts: 540
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2007 2:27 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby TheArm » Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:53 am

I think TFD is definitely a lot more satisfying in terms of pure, straightforward, unabashed fan-service than TSOTP was. TFD scratches the itch I had to find out what the hell happened to all of these characters that I love so dearly over the past 25 years (given that, let's be honest, S3 didn't really give us THAT much to work with), but I maybe found TSOTP to be the more interesting book. Certainly I loved the design and the overall aesthetics of TSOTP more, but TFD has given me the answers I crave. It's funny, I'm thrilled to finally know and understand the fates of all of these characters (especially Donna, Audrey, Annie), but part of me does really wish they'd found a better way to incorporate a lot of this info into the new series. I also found it surprising and interesting that it gave some resolution on some of the dangling threads of S3. It definitely makes me wonder if Frost had hoped/intended for some of this info (like the identity of the girl @ the end of Part Eight) to be IN the series, and then when he saw it had been excluded, decided to find a way to shoehorn some of it back in the mythology?

I also noticed the book takes great pains to make sure the Double's motives are clarified. I appreciate this since I did feel it was one of the more egregious omissions in S3 (I never could quite figure out exactly what he wanted or what was motivating him in a larger sense throughout the season), but again, would have loved for this have been made clearer IN the actual show. Having said that all that, I'll take any excuse to revisit the town and these characters one more time.

And are we meant to infer that Sarah Judith Nowack Palmer is indeed "Judy"?
"Fire...walk...with...me...MEEE!!!"
User avatar
FlyingSquirrel
Posts: 133
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 8:26 pm

Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby FlyingSquirrel » Thu Nov 02, 2017 11:02 am

TheArm wrote:And are we meant to infer that Sarah Judith Nowack Palmer is indeed "Judy"?


I don't think she *is* Judy, but rather she has been harboring Judy ever since the encounter with the bug in the '50s. It would appear that Judy only rarely exercises control over her, though. Maybe Sarah's own psychic abilities were a sort of side effect of being in contact with a being as powerful as Judy?
User avatar
SpookyDollhouse
Posts: 312
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 5:22 pm
Contact:

Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby SpookyDollhouse » Thu Nov 02, 2017 12:43 pm

Lil nitpick about this book: Albert's out-of-character-for-the-times use of the phrase "trigger warning" is not only silly but a lil self-righteously projecting. It's like Frost writing as Albert, which it IS but breaks suspension of disbelief. He didn't think this through enough which is kind of expected of him considering how he acts on social media. :?
User avatar
bowisneski
Posts: 212
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 11:51 am

Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby bowisneski » Thu Nov 02, 2017 1:35 pm

I enjoyed the confirmation of Sarah being the girl from the 50's and all of the gap filling(minus the Vivian stuff, didn't need such a long winded explanation for that), but I'm not a huge fan of confirming the Laura is missing angle. Feels like it sort of undermines the season a little bit.

Was also disappointed that there was no mention of Briggs and Cooper's plan in the Briggs or Judy chapters. That felt like a clumsy retcon in the first place, and TFD not expanding on it at all makes it seem like a completely unnecessary one.
painjoiker
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2016 9:35 am

Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

Postby painjoiker » Thu Nov 02, 2017 1:37 pm

TheArm wrote:I also noticed the book takes great pains to make sure the Double's motives are clarified. I appreciate this since I did feel it was one of the more egregious omissions in S3 (I never could quite figure out exactly what he wanted or what was motivating him in a larger sense throughout the season), but again, would have loved for this have been made clearer IN the actual show.


What was the motives you mentioned here?

Return to “Books”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests